FDA TVECA post table of contents for Deeming Final Rule

[inspects]

I'm sorry.. But, I have to say it... we are think like old people. The way to do this,
is through Social Media... Twitter, Facebook, Redit, Instagram... etc.,.. etc..

Writing letters is great.. it is a good tool.. BUT, this is 2015, our politicians have Twitter
and Facebook accounts. they read their Social media, I am not so sure
they read the letters written to them.

If EVERYBODY got on Twitter and [HASHTAG]#keepvapinglegal[/HASHTAG] (or something like that) was used often, it would trend.
That is what we NEED, this issue to trend.
One or 2 people going on Twitter will not make a difference, it would take a LOT of
people, but it could at least get them to see that we mean business.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, I too doubt any politicians read our letters. If we flooded the social media with [HASHTAG]#keepvapinglegal[/HASHTAG] or anything remotely related it would make more waves than letters to Idiots.

After smoking for forty years I was able to stop smoking the same day I began vaping, and I feel 100% better health wise.

This crap we continually read from the uninformed makes my blood boil as much as everyone else's here.

 

[inspects]

[HASHTAG]#vapingsavedmylife[/HASHTAG] and # stillnotsmoking have been used for a while now.
Another hashtag that is popular: [HASHTAG]#notblowingsmoke[/HASHTAG]

As much as I despise facebook and twitter, I guess it's time to start liking them.

It's tough being old-fashioned.........

 

[Robino1]

I only got Twitter because of the fight we are in now. If it weren't for that, I wouldn't give Twitter the time of day. Alas, it is a tool that we need to utilize. Utilize it I shall and Do!!

 

[inspects]

I only got Twitter because of the fight we are in now. If it weren't for that, I wouldn't give Twitter the time of day. Alas, it is a tool that we need to utilize. Utilize it I shall and Do!!

I'll be doing the same, Robin...!

 

[justagurlinseattle]

I agree with you wholeheartedly, I too doubt any politicians read our letters. If we flooded the social media with [HASHTAG]#keepvapinglegal[/HASHTAG] or anything remotely related it would make more waves than letters to Idiots.

After smoking for forty years I was able to stop smoking the same day I began vaping, and I feel 100% better health wise.

This crap we continually read from the uninformed makes my blood boil as much as everyone else's here.

I am very new to vaping, 2 weeks in. ... BUT, I have cut down my cigarette use by one pack a day so far..
The e-juice I bought is not that good, so I have more on order and a FEW mods, I just ordered.
After my other new items arrive, I HOPE to not smoke another cigarette.
I was smoking OVER 2 packs a day. Now, I am down to less than a pack a day..

I worry that these new laws will dampen my efforts.. and I NEED vaping,
I was diagnosed with emphysema last year... when my vaping stick arrived 2 weeks ago,
my lungs were hurting so bad, I could NOT breath... Even with the cutting back,
I have improved.

Yeah, these laws also make my blood boil. It just does NOT make any sense at all
why they are doing this.

 

[roxynoodle]

I need to learn how to tweet.

The problem with what I put on FB is the people seeing it don't care. They don't vape, and I spend all day refuting their idiotic comments (antifreeze, how its no different than smoking, formaldehyde). I guess there may be a tiny bit of positives IF any of them realize those things aren't true, but I doubt it I suspect they believe whatever they see in the media and think I'm a crazed zealot who is biased.

 

[justagurlinseattle]

I need to learn how to tweet.

The problem with what I put on FB is the people seeing it don't care. They don't vape, and I spend all day refuting their idiotic comments (antifreeze, how its no different than smoking, formaldehyde). I guess there may be a tiny bit of positives IF any of them realize those things aren't true, but I doubt it I suspect they believe whatever they see in the media and think I'm a crazed zealot who is biased.

Tweeting is not that hard, it is pretty easy to get used to.
I hear ya on the FB front.. Though, I do have Facebook, I have it to keep in touch
with my old friends in the USA.

 

[Racehorse]

Not jumping. Just analyzing TVECA's past and present behavior.... Eyes wide open.

Good catch. And kudos for doing the homework.

However, here's the rub, from my perspective. Since "deeming" affects other tobacco products there is going to be cross-over/contamination happening. Legislation that affects a group that "may" not support e-cigs (I mean what cigar company WANTS e-cigs taking away part of their customer base, right?) may put them with us on some things for their own survival. A "we're all in this together" circumstance.

I am a realist, and have come to accept that in reality, different orgs have to "get in bed with each other" on some things. It might only be a "one night stand" but, well, you know. After all (and please read this whole thing before you think I am attacking Mr. Godshall) didn't Bill Godshall work for anti smoking campaigns quite rabidly (which I really didn't appreciate when I was a smoker!) to ban smoking in workplaces, increase cigarette tax rates, require graphic warnings on cigarette packs, was quite passionate about "protecting people from tobacco smoke" and even in some instances I felt he almost compared us smokers to junkies with some of his quotes. (yet many will crucify Obama for appointing an anti-tobacco lobbyist and former executive director of the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids)

But since Bill is also a proponent of harm reduction he has gotten on the side of ecigs since they came out, he helps us. In some ways one could say he did a great deal of harm to making smokers look like "lepers" --- and "technically" that may be hurting us now.....because we "look like we're smoking". Just pointing out this:

Nobody can afford to be a purist. It's all very admirable and everything, but in actuality, there aren't any. Not really. Because there are too many intersections in life where groups coalesce. It may only be a "one night stand" so to speak , but sometimes you have to fight the same fight together if your interests warrant doing so.

Draw a bunch of circles on paper and inter-lap them. That is reality. That is the world. Everyone has to make compromises to survive, because nobody "goes it alone". You can't win that way. This is precisely why I caution that it is important, in any advocacy, not to make everyone into the enemy. And why I start to shake my head when I see vapers lashing out even at law enforcement officers and/or the entire medical establishment in posts.

Do we want to turn into inflexible ANTZ types who would kick a guy like Seigel out of their anti-smoking lobby, because he felt that outdoor smoking bans were *extreme*? or Carl Phillips who didn't comform to their "orthodoxy"?

So while TVECA is not really "for" us, could we say they are kinda "with us" in this situation?

I want to help people. ....to me, if you really care about people not dying from smoke-related diseases then you have to allow them options. My brother was unable to vape for long (many reasons) and had to swtich off to nic gum and he's stuck with it and i am very happy about that.

As more groups get into ecigs technology I believe more of that cross contamination / cross pollination wiill be happening. I visited a few cigar stores before vaping was popular and showed them e-pipes. Some of them were fascinated and thought it would be a great thing to carry.....others wanted to throw me out on the sidewalk.

Here's another example: The ONLY place to buy vapor products in my town is a TOBACCO SUPERSTORE. I was so happy NOT to be patronizing that place as a smoker anymore. But I have to walk into that place, which I REALLY don't want to support....because I have no other place to purchase stuff now in AR. And sometimes I just plain ran out of stuff and had to run down there and buy something even in 2012. (BTW, they have very few vaping customers.) It's 180 miles R/T, on single lane backroads, for me to drive to a "vapor store" that carries stuff and that is also a small town, and they only carry rot gut.

So.....I am compromising, aren't I????? but I will do what I have to in order to continue vaping.

At any rate, I have always been a person who is willing to sit down at a table and keep trying to hammer out a solution, even with people I don't care for, and even if we are in some ways at cross purposes. People who can't do that also probably can't sustain long term relationships (like marriage) either. JMHO.

Don't count on me to be a "my way or the highway" type because.......I'm just not. I have lived a long time and have seen that things can be worked out, although you will NEVER (and I repeat NEVER) get everything you want, without giving up something. That is a big OUCH! but it's reality.

 

[Robino1]

For the twitterers, two good resources to follow: Not Blowing Smoke and CASAA. You will find more to follow by watching those two. Oh and A Billion Lives is another.

 

[Katya]

Good catch. And kudos for doing the homework.

TY. I try. Trust but verify is my middle name.

However, here's the rub, from my perspective. Since "deeming" affects other tobacco products there is going to be cross-over/contamination happening. Legislation that affects a group that "may" not support e-cigs (I mean what cigar company WANTS e-cigs taking away part of their customer base, right?) may put them with us on some things for their own survival. A "we're all in this together" circumstance.

Absolutely. We are in this mess together--and everybody's got an angle. Including you and me.

I am a realist, and have come to accept that in reality, different orgs have to "get in bed with each other" on some things. It might only be a "one night stand" but, well, you know. After all (and please read this whole thing before you think I am attacking Mr. Godshall) didn't Bill Godshall work for anti smoking campaigns quite rabidly (which I really didn't appreciate when I was a smoker!) to ban smoking in workplaces, increase cigarette tax rates, require graphic warnings on cigarette packs, was quite passionate about "protecting people from tobacco smoke" and even in some instances I felt he almost compared us smokers to junkies with some of his quotes.

But since Bill is also a proponent of harm reduction he has gotten on the side of ecigs since they came out, he helps us. In some ways one could say he did a great deal of harm to making smokers look like "lepers" --- and "technically" that may be hurting us now.....because we "look like we're smoking". Just pointing out this:

Nobody can afford to be a purist. It's all very admirable and everything, but in actuality, there aren't any. Not really. Because there are too many intersections in life where groups coalesce. It may only be a "one night stand" so to speak , but sometimes you have to fight the same fight together if your interests warrant doing so.

Draw a bunch of circles on paper and inter-lap them. That is reality. That is the world. Everyone has to make compromises to survive, because nobody "goes it alone". You can't win that way. This is precisely why I caution that it is important, in any advocacy, not to make everyone into the enemy. And why I start to shake my head when I see vapers lashing out even at law enforcement officers and/or the entire medical establishment in posts.

Do we want to turn into inflexible ANTZ types who would kick a guy like Seigel out of their anti-smoking lobby, because he felt that outdoor smoking bans were *extreme*? or Carl Phillips who didn't comform to their "orthodoxy"?

Nope. Godshall and Dr. Siegel are now on the side of harm reduction and I'm grateful for that. And I appreciate their efforts on our behalf, even though I vehemently disapprove of their stance against smoking and their efforts to demonize, marginalize, shame and tax all tobacco users into oblivion. Ironically, their great success in demonizing everything tobacco makes their current pro-vaping advocacy so much more difficult. Karma? Having said that, their street cred, if you will, as anti-smoking activists, probably helps our cause with other ANTZ, after all.

(yet many will crucify Obama for appointing an anti-tobacco lobbyist and former executive director of the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids)

I won't. He's a bona fide ANTZ and is on the other side fair and square. No ambiguities.

So while TVECA is not really "for" us, could we say they are kinda "with us" in this situation?

I'm sure that they are more for us than against us. I was just trying to figure out why they are always involved in all the shenanigans, leaks, questionable letters, etc. That's it. I have nothing against TVECA. I'm just curious.

 

[Katya]

The PHE report says "e-cigs are around 95% safer than tobacco" Why should we not be aiming for 100% safer which meets my definition of ex-smoker.

Why not, indeed!

 

[Kent C]

Karma? Having said that, their street cred, if you will, as anti-smoking activists, probably helps our cause with other ANTZ, after all.

Some of that but more, imo, their 'inside view' has been invaluable. One doesn't usually get that. How they got that view? ... there's the tradeoff. ;- )

I look for certain cigar interests to be part of the court battles on our side.

 

[Katya]

Some of that but more, imo, their 'inside view' has been invaluable. One doesn't usually get that. How they got that view? ... there's the tradeoff. ;- )

Don't ask don't tell. As long as it helps our cause... God knows we need all the help we can get.

I look for certain cigar interests to be part of the court battles on our side.

Right.

 

[jesseseetai]

I need to learn how to tweet.

The problem with what I put on FB is the people seeing it don't care. They don't vape, and I spend all day refuting their idiotic comments (antifreeze, how its no different than smoking, formaldehyde). I guess there may be a tiny bit of positives IF any of them realize those things aren't true, but I doubt it I suspect they believe whatever they see in the media and think I'm a crazed zealot who is biased.

honestly i think facebook won't be that helpful in this fight. the way facebook's algorithm works now, the posts we make barely reach any of our friends or followers. for example... i'm a electronic music producer and have about 7600 fans on my FB page. If i make a post on their, maybe 2% of my followers will see that post. facebook is now pretty much just a pay to play advertising site, it's no longer useful for organic growth or conversation. it's only good use is being able to stay in touch with friends and family.

Twitter and Instagram will be the most useful social media platforms for this fight. And I agree that tweeting to government officials is a good idea

 

[Belushi]

Is there a list of legislators which summaries their views on vaping? Like a legislator vaping report card. If so, can someone share the link...

 

[Katya]

Is there a list of legislators which summaries their views on vaping? Like a legislator vaping report card. If so, can someone share the link...

I don't have such a list, but I suggest you find your representatives and contact them directly. If you join CASAA, you'll receive email alerts and calls to action that will also help you identify your representatives and their views.

https://www.opencongress.org/people/zipcodelookup

http://www.house.state.tx.us/members/find-your-representative/

http://casaa.org/Become_a_Member.html

I only have one list of the most anti-vaping senators who wrote a letter urging the FDA to regulate e-cigs:

Barbara Boxer (D-CA),
Richard Blumenthal (D-CT),
Sherrod Brown (D-OH),
Dick Durbin (D-IL),
and Edward J. Markey (D-MA)

http://www.markey.senate.gov/news/p...p-urges-fda-to-regulate-electronic-cigarettes

 

[inspects]

I don't have such a list, but I suggest you find your representatives and contact them directly. If you join CASAA, you'll receive email alerts and calls to action that will also help you identify your representatives and their views.

https://www.opencongress.org/people/zipcodelookup

http://www.house.state.tx.us/members/find-your-representative/

http://casaa.org/Become_a_Member.html

I only have one list of the most anti-vaping senators who wrote a letter urging the FDA to regulate e-cigs:

Barbara Boxer (D-CA),
Richard Blumenthal (D-CT),
Sherrod Brown (D-OH),
Dick Durbin (D-IL),
and Edward J. Markey (D-MA)

http://www.markey.senate.gov/news/p...p-urges-fda-to-regulate-electronic-cigarettes

Those listed can receive a single finger Tweet....!

 

[Racehorse]

Nope. Godshall and Dr. Siegel are now on the side of harm reduction and I'm grateful for that.

I'm not well steeped in the history of everybody, it's like musical chairs to me, sort of like trying to figure out which horses would and would not go in certain Breeders Cup races this weekend (they sign up for mroe than one). My brain can't keep up with ancient history,, which today is more like the blink of an eye.

Not sure about TVECA, some of the cigar people didn't seem to be much enamoured of them and as you noted they did do something "like this" leaking last time around. Maybe that is how they operate with inside information. Good in some aspects, but you sure wouldn't want a "friend" in real life like that.

BTW how you feel about Obama is how I feel about Asa Hutchinson right now for making it almost impossible to vape in AR unless you live in a large city with vapor stores (and believe me there aren't a huge number of them here) . If anyone tweets etc. please do me a favor and send one to him.

 

[Katya]

And speaking of horses, how 'bout that American (misspelled ) Pharoah?

Yeah... you wouldn't. But luckily we don't have to be friends with them--we just need to get them to do what's right. If that's possible.

 

[Racehorse]

IN addition to Asa Hutchinson, add Gilbert Baker, the former Republican senator who is a BT lobbyist who helped Eddie Joe Williams Republican member of the Arkansas State Senate for District 29 write the bill to regulate vaping to make it against the law for vapers in AR to order eliquid online!

edited to add: This stuff knows no one political party......because Industry and Republicans hate regulation --- except when the regulations protect and enhance special interests they're in bed with, like tobacco companies. (Gilbert Baker's client is Reynolds Tobacco).

Can't trust any of 'em just for having D or R after their name, what I found out.