FDA TVECA post table of contents for Deeming Final Rule

[salemgold]

I am in a tiny little town that actually does have two vape shops. I have not yet been inside either but, I am betting that they are clueless. I do plan to make some time to go by there this week and enlighten them though. With my ECF cards in hand, of course

There is a larger town not far from me that is loaded with vape shops. I plan to make my rounds with them as well. Sure can't hurt anything. One of them is a madvapes and I feel certain that they must know.

 

[salemgold]

After finding Smoke Free Radio's site, I don't see anything to click on to enter, or find a way to listen to the show. Am I not getting to where I need to be?

Try this link VP Live - Vaping Podcasts and wait for tonights show to be archived there.

This is it

 

[Racehorse]

Finally, Is TVECA a "perfect" Vaping advocate. NO. Neither are YOU, ME, or anyone else engaged in this fight. By this I really mean my own "same page" doctrine, you take the pluses and the minuses and live with the inherent imperfection and move forward trying to save our industry. I'm happy we have TVECA on our side.

How I felt and said earlier:

So while TVECA is not really "for" us, could we say they are kinda "with us" in this situation

.... because this deeming stuff affects more than just vaping. The result is that there is going to be alliances that are naturally advantageous, and that in the interest of broadening one's support strategies, one finds complementary sources ------ and there are serious limitations to a "purist" approach on our part at this juncture.

 

[Kent C]

and there are serious limitations to a "purist" approach on our part at this juncture.

It depends. If the FDA is going to take their purist approach, is does no good for us to let ours go. As far as working with others - cigar people mainly, one doesn't have to compromise principles in order to do that. That said, a final rule grandfather date would be great at this point, and 'holding out' for no final rule GF date wouldn't be prudent, but we should eventually fight that as well for the same reasons we'd allow all the creativity and innovation that we'd get with the later GF date. And imo, there would be 'serious limitations' on a lily-livered compromise approach at this juncture. I'd prefer a black market.

 

[SeniorBoy]

Try this link VP Live - Vaping Podcasts and wait for tonights show to be archived there.

This is it

Thanks so much. Just listened and will be back tomorrow after a good nights rest. Lots of "meat on the bone" about our current state of affairs with respect to the deeming. You betcha they talked about the leaked documents under discussion in this thread. Bill G. got 2 hours on the phone with Story of TVECA. Definitely worth ever ones time to listen to all of it. I don't want to taint anyone's opinion of this interview so GO LISTEN PLEASE!!!!

"Industry Call to Action, the OMB/OIRA process"

 

[Katya]

Just finished listening...

Basically, we still don't know what is going to happen. And I do have a feeling that those regs will be eventually challenged in court. But what do I know?

However, I like the point that Azim is making that OMB is not FDA. They are (or at least are supposed to be) on our side, they are an Ombudsman for the people and are supposed to hear our story.

"Executive order 13563: The job of the agency is to protect the public health safety while promoting economic growth innovation, competitiveness, and job creation. Well, that literally describes the vaping industry."

"Put that back in their face."

I know I'm being pollyannish. But I still believe in this country. Heck, even that imbecilic sheriff from San Francisco was kicked out of office by angry SF voters. The country is angry. We're going to have a new president and new administration soon.

It really feels like 2010 all over again. I was advised then, almost six years ago, to start stockpiling. I refused. And I'm glad I did. I'd be sitting now on a 10-year supply of 3.3v eGos and Boge cartomizers. And bottles of 6-year old nicotine, PG and VG.

I'm going to wait just a bit longer....

 

[2coils]

Just finished listening...

Basically, we still don't know what is going to happen. And I do have a feeling that those regs will be eventually challenged in court. But what do I know?

However, I like the point that Azim is making that OMB is not FDA. They are (or at least are supposed to be) on our side, they are an Ombudsman for the people and are supposed to hear our story.

"Executive order 13563: The job of the agency is to protect the public health safety while promoting economic growth innovation, competitiveness, and job creation. Well, that literally describes the vaping industry."

"Put that back in their face."

I know I'm being pollyannish. But I still believe in this country. Heck, even that imbecilic sheriff from San Francisco was kicked out of office by angry SF voters. The country is angry. We're going to have a new president and new administration soon.

It really feels like 2010 all over again. I was advised then, almost six years ago, to start stockpiling. I refused. And I'm glad I did. I'd be sitting now on a 10-year supply of 3.3v eGos and Boge cartomizers. And bottles of 6-year old nicotine, PG and VG.

I'm going to wait just a bit longer....

Love your post! Unfortunately, I do not share your sense of optimism. The "system" is so broken, our industry is just another example of how our government works. From super packs and lobbying/special interest groups etc...Our government no longer governs for us. Good news is citizens are less tolerant of this. Look at the polls. We need a complete overhaul, that goes beyond our industry. As for e-cigs.....Going to be a long fight. IMO court is our only hope.

 

[salemgold]

It really feels like 2010 all over again. I was advised then, almost six years ago, to start stockpiling. I refused. And I'm glad I did. I'd be sitting now on a 10-year supply of 3.3v eGos and Boge cartomizers. And bottles of 6-year old nicotine, PG and VG.

I'm going to wait just a bit longer....

Yes but, just think of all of the ancient vape gear that you would be the proud owner of. Who knows? You may be able to start your own museum. The history of vaping. HA!

Remember, nicotine will always be put to good use for most people. No matter what the outcome of any of this is.

 

[SeniorBoy]

Just finished listening...

Basically, we still don't know what is going to happen. And I do have a feeling that those regs will be eventually challenged in court. But what do I know?

However, I like the point that Azim is making that OMB is not FDA. They are (or at least are supposed to be) on our side, they are an Ombudsman for the people and are supposed to hear our story.

"Executive order 13563: The job of the agency is to protect the public health safety while promoting economic growth innovation, competitiveness, and job creation. Well, that literally describes the vaping industry."

"Put that back in their face."

I know I'm being pollyannish. But I still believe in this country. Heck, even that imbecilic sheriff from San Francisco was kicked out of office by angry SF voters. The country is angry. We're going to have a new president and new administration soon.

It really feels like 2010 all over again. I was advised then, almost six years ago, to start stockpiling. I refused. And I'm glad I did. I'd be sitting now on a 10-year supply of 3.3v eGos and Boge cartomizers. And bottles of 6-year old nicotine, PG and VG.

I'm going to wait just a bit longer....

Understood. What I don't want to happen is to see you or anyone else fall victim to what I refer to as "rolling panic" in the marketplace. Can I least convince you to make a list of stuff you need? Please.

My guess is that it's going to get ugly however if you keep up on the news and ECF, subscribe to the Federal Registry etc you may be able to beat or mitigate the rolling panic. Vendors will be swamped. Products will sell out. Orders will be delayed. They may limit purchases and much more. With hundreds of pages in the Final Rule their will be a few key areas that some will focus on for immediate release and then the rest will dribble out as they have time to absorb the totality of the final rule.

 

[Rossum]

In a rolling panic, (s)he who panics first, panics best.

 

[zoiDman]

In a rolling panic, (s)he who panics first, panics best.

And Gathers No Moss.

 

[super_X_drifter]

In a rolling panic, (s)he who panics first, panics best.

I started to panic about two years ago and stocked up on nic base for what should last the rest of my life at least.

Mods, the metal mechs I run will outlast me and replacement parts aren't vape products - should I ever need any and the parts can be installed by a simpleton like myself.

Attys, also have attys that will last as long as my mods and plenty of spare parts for em and more on the way. Hope to get another atty or two too.

My Regulated mods are high quality Italian metal ones. The two I have and the third one enroute are also easilly serviceable here (or by the Italian maker). I have spare 510 connectors should one ever fail.

Wire, cotton, VG - they are not vape related and will always be available. No need to add to the panic list.

Nicotine base in mostly VG tastes great (very light cig like) and is very kind on vape gear. May be worth your consideration. It's all I vape. A liter of 100mg is like $50 and makes 10 liters of Juice when mixed 1:10 with VG.

I'll be Vaping like a boss till I chose to stop (which will prolly be never) not when anyone else try's to piss on my smokeless parade.

 

[pennysmalls]

I've been debating about nic myself. I do have some in my freezer but not enough to last over 2 years or so. I'm on a waiting list for a beautiful brass CC mod and have been going back and forth, CC mod or nic...CC mod or nic? We, the vape community, should/could consider the option of buying unopened nic from only each other for a while if things go down such that we won't actually need our ten year supplies of nic afterall. I don't see that happening and our nic suppliers would get stung if we did that but what the heck are we all going to do with that much nic if we end up not needing it lol??!!

Screw choosing, I'm getting my CC mod and my nic! If stuff is hitting the fan for real this time, I'm going out in style!

 

[Ca Ike]

There's no doubt the fear mongering, ridicule, designated areas, etc. along with taxes got rid of a lot of smokers but the hard core that was left - most of the people on this forum (and others of course) - were that 22-25% who simply weren't going to quit smoking. So at least that could be 'relied upon' by the states. However, ecigs have cut into even the hard core and that basically was my point on how the money from MSA will eventually evaporate. Killing vaping is about the only good choice of keeping that steady stream of money coming in.

That said, the same Democrat Senators that have been writing the FDA and OMB to hurry up with the final rule, also put forward the idea (Dec. 2014?) of including ecigs in the MSA, perhaps after seeing the House Bill 2058 to change the grandfather date.

im way behind in this thread but out of everything said in here Kent has it nailed to the core goal. The ONLY reason to deem ecigs tobacco is to get them under the MSA to bolster that revenue source. I've been saying this since the first state level bill was proposed. I have to find the section but there is a provision in the MSA that automatically includes all new tobacco products released after the MSA ruling went into affect. The industry has to fight ALL attempts to bring ecigs under the tobacco rule just on this basis alone and it's not being addressed anywhere I have seen.

This is tantamount to Joe Citizen being jailed for a murder committed by another person before he was born.

 

[zoiDman]

Here is a Good Vid about what the OMB/OIRA can and can't do. Also what Individuals and Interested Parties can do.

 

[pennysmalls]

Zoi that vid needs a thread of it's own. I didn't know most of what I've seen in it so far and it's all important for us to take advantage of this OMB opportunity.

 

[zoiDman]

Zoi that vid needs a thread of it's own. I didn't know most of what I've seen in it so far and it's all important for us to take advantage of this OMB opportunity.

Ask and Ye Shall Receive.

Good Video about Deeming, The OMB/OIRA and what You can Do.

 

[DC2]

I am in a tiny little town that actually does have two vape shops. I have not yet been inside either but, I am betting that they are clueless. I do plan to make some time to go by there this week and enlighten them though. With my ECF cards in hand, of course

Vape shops should all be doing the following...

--Check out SFATA at the very least, and join if possible
--Send all of their customers to CASAA to at least sign up and be counted

There is a larger town not far from me that is loaded with vape shops. I plan to make my rounds with them as well. Sure can't hurt anything. One of them is a Madvapes and I feel certain that they must know.

Madvapes definitely knows what is going on.
But you may want to stop by anyway, because it must be an awesome place!

 

[oplholik]

Something I completely don't understand, is every once in a while here on ecf I see something about a vendor expanding, opening a new store, hiring people. I see others asking about opening a shop. Some of these vendors that expand, I know they know the uncertainty of the situation, so why are they willing to make the investment at this time? I just don't get it.

 

[DC2]

That said, a final rule grandfather date would be great at this point, and 'holding out' for no final rule GF date wouldn't be prudent, but we should eventually fight that as well for the same reasons we'd allow all the creativity and innovation that we'd get with the later GF date. And imo, there would be 'serious limitations' on a lily-livered compromise approach at this juncture. I'd prefer a black market.

Never throw away a bargaining chip until you absolutely have to.
If you throw it away for no reason, it becomes useless, and you've just lost a lot of ground.