FDA TVECA post table of contents for Deeming Final Rule

[zoiDman]

Everything but tamper-proof, non-refillable, closed-system cigalikes in menthol and tobacco flavors.

THIS, in and of Itself, should be Enough to put the Fear of God into Every Vaper. And be Enough to get them into Action.

 

[DC2]

THIS, in and of Itself, should be Enough to put the Fear of God into Every Vaper. And be Enough to get them into Action.

The only reason that isn't happening is because most of the vaping world doesn't know, or doesn't believe it.
There aren't really a lot of us that have been following this for years, and reading everything.

I will, of course, blame the media for their part in this whole mess.

 

[zoiDman]

the current thought spreading around the CASAA FB page is flavors other than tobacco/menthol will be gone in short order.

I'm not sure where Anyone is in the Testing Phase for Flavors but BT(s). And their Current Offerings seem like a Model to what Initial Approved might Look Like.

I wonder how Much, if any the FTC will play a Role in Flavors?

 

[zoiDman]

The only reason that isn't happening is because most of the vaping world doesn't know, or doesn't believe it.
There aren't really a lot of us that have been following this for years, and reading everything.

I will, of course, blame the media for their part in this whole mess.

I think Most Owners/Operations Managers of Retail e-Liquid Companies Know. But I think there is Little Desire to Tell their Employees. Let Alone their Customer Base.

DIY doesn't Improve Sales for Flavored e-Liquid Sellers.

 

[DC2]

I think Most Owners/Operations Managers of Retail e-Liquid Companies Know. But I think there is Little Desire to Tell their Employees. Let Alone their Customer Base.

DIY doesn't Improve Sales for Flavored e-Liquid Sellers.

I hate to think that's true, but I know it is to some extent.
It's very much a self-defeating approach to things in the long run.

Unless you're an eternal optimist.
Or just out for as many quick bucks as you can make in the short run.

 

[Katya]

I wonder if any of them have a Plan B--like selling just flavoring concentrates...

I don't vape tobacco flavors anymore, I can do menthol, but I will miss my white teas from Ahlusion...

 

[zoiDman]

I hate to think that's true, but I know it is to some extent.
It's very much a self-defeating approach to things in the long run.

Unless you're an eternal optimist.
Or just out for as many quick bucks as you can make in the short run.

Just a Hypothetical Question:

Say you Own a B&M that sells a Popular "House Brand" Line of Flavored e-Liquids. But you think that PMTA Approval will be Too Expensive to even get a Few of your e-Liquids Approved.

Would you be telling your Customers about Deeming? And that they should be Buying Nicotine Base for their Freezers? And Learning how to do DIY?

Or when the Subject came up, just say... "That's Crazy Talk. And you probably got it from some Fear Monger on the ECF. Nothing is Going to happen. Now Check Out our New Blend. It's Only $11.95 for a 30ml Bottle."

---

BTW - You Don't need to Answer. Because I know you. And I know you would go down the Advocacy route. But you get my Point.

 

[zoiDman]

I wonder if any of them have a Plan B--like selling just flavoring concentrates...

...

That's what Scared me about that whole "Intended Use" thing.

 

[Ca Ike]

There appears to be a split personality running the show sometimes. Do we ban ecigs completely so we can go on collecting our cigarette taxes. Or do we regulate the ecig market in such a way as to maximize our ability to tax it as a replacement for cigarette taxes.

The actions the various authorities take make it seem like they can't decide which way to go. I guess the truth is that there is no secret committee somewhere pulling the strings. Just a bunch of panicky pols who know they have to do something to save their revenue stream.

The split is fed/state mostly. States are in hock up to our eyeballs in tobacco MSA bonds so they want the revenue. Fed seems to want to bolster BT and along with it BP

 

[Katya]

That's what Scared me about that whole "Intended Use" thing.

Yeah? Good luck with that. Are they going to hire mind readers? Do you really believe that there is a court in this country that will allow the ban on vanilla flavorings? Or peach white tea?

 

[DC2]

Yeah? Good luck with that. Are they going to hire mind readers? Do you really believe that there is a court in this country that will allow the ban on vanilla flavorings? Or peach white tea?

Not ban them, just not allow vape shops to be selling them.
Assuming of course there will still be any vape shops.

 

[zoiDman]

Yeah? Good luck with that. Are they going to hire mind readers? Do you really believe that there is a court in this country that will allow the ban on vanilla flavorings? Or peach white tea?

I was think more along the Line of companies like Ahlusion selling Pre-Mixed Bottles of White Teas.

Yeah... I don't see a way for Individual Flavorings to be Restricted.

---

So what are we Gonna Do?

Seem like that Big Rock keeps Rolling down the Hill. And everyday a Little More Sand runs out of the Glass.

 

[Kent C]

I think Most Owners/Operations Managers of Retail e-Liquid Companies Know. But I think there is Little Desire to Tell their Employees. Let Alone their Customer Base.

Sigh (not at you :- )... Likely not true for all but... I stopped into my local shop yesterday and there was a big change in their shelves/inventory. Used to have all kind of mods - eleaf, tesla, sigelei, toppers - subtanks, Kanger and others, chargers - nitecore i2's, etc. now - it was replaced by (what the employees said were) the owners own line of products. And about a 10th of what was there just a few days before.

My first thoughts were they were getting ready to go out of business. Although what was there was new items tagged with their business name. But the employees were a bit scared with the change, but seemed to be ok with it as well - "whatever!" They said there was going to be a big 'black Friday sale' to sell off the inventory, although it wasn't in the store - AND they said, they are starting another store, so the 'going out of business' idea might not be right, BUT they may be actually having their own stuff with which they'll apply to the FDA. Speculation at this point... They also have a lab that makes their own eliquid. I haven't been there but it's been described to me by employees who have - white suits, sterile, lab equipment, etc. etc.

When/IF I get more info, I'll let you all know.

 

[zoiDman]

Not ban them, just not allow vape shops to be selling them.
Assuming of course there will still be any vape shops.

Yeah... I think Many/Most Vape shops are kinda on the "Green Mile".

So is it Over? Should we just go Home and make sure None of the Bottles in our Freezers have Cracked?

 

[Kent C]

Would you be telling your Customers about Deeming? And that they should be Buying Nicotine Base for their Freezers? And Learning how to do DIY?

On this, the employees of the store mentioned Do do this. I've heard them many times. Some customers know, some seem to know, some not but acknowledge the possibility. Usually with a thanks.

 

[Katya]

So what are we Gonna Do?

Seem like that Big Rock keeps Rolling down the Hill. And everyday a Little More Sand runs out of the Glass.

I'm out of ideas. I have written letters, sent emails, made phone calls, signed every petition I saw, asked CASAA for a new CTA...

I guess I could chain myself to Zeller's desk and go on hunger strike...

 

[DC2]

So is it Over? Should we just go Home and make sure None of the Bottles in our Freezers have Cracked?

I think anyone exiting the market now is doing so very much prematurely.
But I don't think that is really happening too much yet.

We have all kinds of recourse still available.

The OMB/OIRA sending back the deeming regulations is the first line of defense.
HR 2058 and the agriculture bill are the second line of defense.
Getting Congress to reject the deeming is the third line of defense.
Getting a new President, with new political appointees is the fourth line of defense.

And finally, the courts would be the last line of defense.
Not sure if I missed any.

And before you ask what should we be doing then, which of course would be another rhetorical question...

--Growing our numbers in CASAA, the Vaping Militia, and SFATA
--Contacting OMB/OIRA with our concerns
--Contacting Congress critters
--Signing petitions
--Educating our family, friends, and coworkers
--Visiting vape shops and making sure they are aware
--Voting as you see fit in the next election
--

 

[zoiDman]

I'm out of ideas. I have written letters, sent emails, made phone calls, signed every petition I saw, asked CASAA for a new CTA...

Short of chaining myself to Zeller's desk and going on hunger strike, I don't know what else I can do.

Has anyone heard anything from SFATA?

Or Affiliated Members/Officers?

 

[navigator2011]

I'm out of ideas. I have written letters, sent emails, made phone calls, signed every petition I saw, asked CASAA for a new CTA...

I guess I could chain myself to Zeller's desk and go on hunger strike...

There is one thing ... voting. I think as vapers that believe vaping is saving our lives, we should all be voting, vocally even, for those politicians that will allow, or even support, our having access to a reduced harm lifestyle.

 

[Katya]

There is one thing ... voting. I think as vapers that believe vaping is saving our lives, we should all be voting, vocally even, for those politicians that will allow, or even support, our having access to a reduced harm lifestyle.

I agree.

But we would need an election for that. Nothing here until next year....