FDA TVECA post table of contents for Deeming Final Rule

[Kent C]

HUD is open minded about making an exception for ecigs in public housing.

IF HUD is open minded....

Public Housing Ban on Smoking May Include E-Cigarettes

See Just Julie's comments.

 

[sofarsogood]

IF HUD is open minded....
Public Housing Ban on Smoking May Include E-Cigarettes
See Just Julie's comments.

I have hope for that. HUD's tennents would have more than your average number of troubles and challenges and smoking might often be one of them. I bet they keep track of the people who move out because they have improved circumstances, including more money to spend on better housing. We know how expensive cigarettes are.

I used to spend $3000 a year on a carton a week. Now I spend less than $50 on a year supply of DIY. I'm enjoying the money saved and the superior experience. People with less money than me and kids could use that money. Their families could use that money. May be HUD is ahead of me on this.

 

[Kent C]

I have hope for that. HUD's tennents would have more than your average number of troubles and challenges and smoking might often be one of them. I bet they keep track of the people who move out because they have improved circumstances, including more money to spend on better housing. We know how expensive cigarettes are.

I used to spend $3000 a year on a carton a week. Now I spend less than $50 on a year supply of DIY. I'm enjoying the money saved and the superior experience. People with less money than me and kids could use that money. Their families could use that money. May be HUD is ahead of me on this.

I really hope you're right. It would be a good 'test' - like the idea of 'enterprise zones' - and I can't see it not working. Well, that's a bit of an overstatement - there will be pockets of resistance everywhere but it would be a good thing if vaping is allowed.

 

[Lessifer]

So... has anyone leaked any more of the final rule?

 

[oplholik]

Apparently not, if they have, I missed it.

 

[DC2]

I have a silly question. Does it have to be deemed to be taxed? If not then I don't see that the deeming is about taxing. If the FDA is indeed going whole hog as it appears then would it not defeat tax revenue since there will be so little to tax. I have been thinking more along the lines of the FDA is mad. Not mad in the sense of crazy but more in the sense of buthurt egged on by anti smoking zealots. Dartboard with Njoy, Smoking Everywhere, and Judge Leon on it hanging on a wall somewhere?

No, the FDA deeming has nothing at all to do (directly at least) with taxes.

The FDA does not have the power to tax.
And deeming us a tobacco product does not automatically include us in any Federal taxation.

Congress would have to craft a bill to hit us with Federal taxes.
Even if the FDA deems us to be a tobacco product.

I think your questions leads us back to the pharmaceutical companies, they really are the only other aspect that would benefit from the deeming outside of tobacco. And FDA isn't exactly impartial when it comes to pharma. It's the only thing that makes sense to me in the context of your question. Wouldn't it be a hoot if pharma came out with their own version of vaping once the deeming takes down the vape industry? Not really but you know what I mean. I wouldn't put it past them.

I've often said that the Big Pharma goal is to bring nicotine as a drug under their purview.
It's showing ever-increasing potential to treat many maladies.

But we can't have people out there willy-nilly using inexpensive and unrestricted nicotine.
That would screw up everything!

Well, unless they are getting their nicotine from smoking cigarettes.
Because, yeah, that adds even more to the Big Pharma bottom line and must not be stopped.

The thing I keep seeing in all the regulations at all levels of government is one big theme.
Stop vaping. To the benefit of Big Government, Big Pharma, and mostly as an afterthought, Big Tobacco.

Big Tobacco is thrown the bone here.
Keep the cigarette taxes rolling, and keep the people dying after expensive treatments.

Good for everyone!!
But us.

 

[zoiDman]

So... has anyone leaked any more of the final rule?

Not that I am Aware of.

But I did come across this Yesterday...

FTC Seeks Public Comments on Proposed Study of the E-Cigarette Industry | Federal Trade Commission

Albeit Off-Topic. But e-Cigarette Related.

 

[Kent C]

So... has anyone leaked any more of the final rule?

Haven't seen anything.

Related - don't know if it's posted elsewhere:
E-cig industry seeks support from 2016 presidential hopefuls

 

[Myrany]

Not that I am Aware of.

But I did come across this Yesterday...

FTC Seeks Public Comments on Proposed Study of the E-Cigarette Industry | Federal Trade Commission

Albeit Off-Topic. But e-Cigarette Related.

Actually it may not be off topic. I can totally see this study as a means to prove ecigs are marketed to kids.

Edit: Wouldn't that be a nice feather in the FDAs cap

 

[zoiDman]

Actually it may not be off topic. I can totally see this study as a means to prove ecigs are marketed to kids.

Edit: Wouldn't that be a nice feather in the FDAs cap

I think it could have Very Serious Ramifications.

Especially if there are very few Submissions. Because we Know that BT(s) will be making a Submission(s). And it would be Disproportional to have BT's POV be the Dominant View.

 

[idiot grin]

I would really appreciate a stickied, no-reply thread that contains what info/rumors/hearsay we've currently got and nothing else. I don't want to keep wading through this mess for updates. The updates could go in the sticky! Doesn't it sound nice?

Also, is anybody else hoping zoidman's shift key wears out?

 

[SeniorBoy]

Good evening Boys and Girls

For your reading pleasure from the fresh off the press CASAA Newsletter and bolded by moi:

"There is little doubt that the proposed regulation will eliminate the legal market for 99.99% -- perhaps even 100% -- of the products over which FDA asserts jurisdiction after a grace period. (The grace period in last year’s draft version of the regulation was two years.) There is an unconfirmed rumor that FDA will attempt to ban all non-tobacco flavors almost immediately.

Source

EDIT: My sources tell me, and this is unconfirmed, that the ban bolded above will be effective 3 months from the effective date of the final rule.

 

[salemgold]

Not sure if this has already been posted in this thread but, I find it very interesting. How could the FDA or any of the other anti vaping groups possibly ignore these results published by the CDC?

Products - Data Briefs - Number 216 - September 2015

 

[Ca Ike]

Not sure if this has already been posted in this thread but, I find it very interesting. How could the FDA or any of the other anti vaping groups possibly ignore these results published by the CDC?

Products - Data Briefs - Number 216 - September 2015

It's easy to ignore when you don't care. However, they are not ignoring it. It's part of the reason they want to deem it tobacco. They see a new tax opportunity for a profit windfall in the light of the MSA payment downfall.

 

[Katya]

I'm drawn back to the ECF...

Welcome back, Mistaree!

 

[Katya]

I would really appreciate a stickied, no-reply thread that contains what info/rumors/hearsay we've currently got and nothing else. I don't want to keep wading through this mess for updates. The updates could go in the sticky! Doesn't it sound nice?

Sure does. If you have the time to do it, i.e., find all the relevant information and keep the thread updated at least daily, I'm sure such a thread would be greatly appreciated by all of us. You may contact a friendly moderator and ask for the thread to be stickied. Good luck and thanks in advance!

If not, you'll just have to wade through this mess like all of us.

Also, is anybody else hoping zoidman's shift key wears out?

Um, not me. ZoiDman is a dear friend of mine and I happen to love his shift key.

Oh, and welcome to the Forum, idiot grin.

 

[Katya]

Not sure if this has already been posted in this thread but, I find it very interesting. How could the FDA or any of the other anti vaping groups possibly ignore these results published by the CDC?

Products - Data Briefs - Number 216 - September 2015

How could they ignore all the data and studies showing without the shadow of the doubt that vaping is saving lives and shouldn't be treated the same way or be placed in the same category as other tobacco products? How could they completely ignore the findings of PHE?

 

[Katya]

IF HUD is open minded....

Public Housing Ban on Smoking May Include E-Cigarettes

See Just Julie's comments.

HUD Proposes Nationwide Smoking Ban in Public Housing

"But the idea that the state can or should condition the receipt of benefits on the avoidance of specific legal behaviors should be anathema not simply to libertarians but to conservatives who denounce social engineering and liberals who oppose treating lower-income Americans as incapable of making responsible life decisions."

 

[Kent C]

HUD Proposes Nationwide Smoking Ban in Public Housing

"But the idea that the state can or should condition the receipt of benefits on the avoidance of specific legal behaviors should be anathema not simply to libertarians but to conservatives who denounce social engineering and liberals who oppose treating lower-income Americans as incapable of making responsible life decisions."

So everyone should agree Not going to happen, but it's true. Thanks for posting. I thought of the Walker idea wrt this as well. Even nicotine testing that vapers are now struggling with from some companies.

Reason Mag comes through on the side of vaping again, although it may be considered a libertarian rant.

 

[Katya]

So everyone should agree