FDA TVECA post table of contents for Deeming Final Rule

[justagurlinseattle]

You know that the USA and the EU need?

a Ban on BANNING....

I am so freaking sick and tired of the arbitrary banning
of products... and yes, this is arbitrary... NOTHING is 100% healthy,
yet, that is what they want to expect from vaping and e-juice.

Here is the REALITY... if they go into heavily regulating e-juice,
and it becomes too hard to find in the USA and Europe,
people will just order it from China, where there will be NO regulation and
no quality control... where there will possibly be far MORE harmful ingredients used,
and then it will absolute become a health hazard. The irony is heavy with this.

 

[Katya]

What an Unusual Coincidence about the "But".

It's almost like I Subliminally remember when Mr. Zeller made that Statement.

We were watching the blessed event together, Z, if memory serves...

Actually, the rest of the statement, quoted by Kent, is the real statement, I'm afraid. The first part, which I love to quote and use wherever I can, was a gaffe, a slip-up, if you will. You know, when a politician by mistake tells the truth... Or some inconsequential line he delivers to placate his opponents. He also said that he realizes that the 2007 grandfather date is a big problem (I heard him say that in an interview with one of the vaping advocates), but, alas, the FDA is powerless and can't change it. He was really, really sorry about that. Bloody crocodile!

Zeller is a weasel of the worst kind; he worked for the Legacy Foundation, the FDA, the WHO, the BP, and again for the FDA. There is very little doubt in my mind that he has a cushy six-figure consulting job at SGK waiting for him when he's done decimating or killing vaping altogether.

 

[sofarsogood]

Robin, I found this one - you can search and copy stuff, where as on that one you can only do screen shots - and/or OCR like Zoidman did Don't know if anyone else posted it. (heck, I may have :- ) Anyway:

http://vapers.org.uk/wp-content/upl...e-E-Liquid-PMTAs-Legitimacy-Not-Confirmed.pdf

Thanks a lot. It appears to be the document being considered by the White House. I've only read the early pages but seema to me those requirementa would push most products out of existance in the US but what happens if I order stuff from off shore never the less. What I haven't found yet is how long the grace period might be. Do I have to buy a bunch of stuff now or is there room to breath before the axe falls?

All their pious talk about health...health my .... Turns out the best thing about quitting is the $3,000 a year I'm saving. My buddies who have kids and who switched say what they like the most is they have more money to spend on their kids.

 

[zoiDman]

We were watching the blessed event together, Z, if memory serves...

...

I do believe you Are Correct.

And I also Recall that it took me about an Hour to get All of the Spit off of my Monitor following the end of that "Hearing".

 

[justagurlinseattle]

Ya know, this totally remind me of that movie Drugstore Cowboy...

Back in the 1980's.. in Europe, they had a LOT of medicines that were helping AIDS patients...
The FDA would not allow patients to order these medicines from Europe, due to health
and safety reasons, even though the AIDS patients were DYING...

The FDA allowed AIDS patients to die, rather than allow them to take
a possible risk, that MIGHT pay off in saving their lives...

This issue is NO DIFFERENT.... They should allow us to take this risk, because
it just MIGHT save our lives.

 

[inspects]

Assuming the nicotine was property extracted and purified there would be no way to tell from testing if it came from tobacco or from any other sub species of the potatoe family or was synthetic. (don't know if synthetic is even remotely feasable yet)

I believe there is a method to determine the origin, molecules in the ingredient. I will certainly find out if they are falsely advertising.

 

[Kent C]

Assuming the nicotine was property extracted and purified there would be no way to tell from testing if it came from tobacco or from any other sub species of the potatoe family or was synthetic. (don't know if synthetic is even remotely feasable yet)

Exactly right. Same with VG (whether it's 'source' is animal or vegetable) - same molecular structure - same with most GMO stuff as well.

 

[inspects]

Exactly right. Same with VG (whether it's 'source' is animal or vegetable) - same molecular structure - same with most GMO stuff as well.

I'll leave the testing and results to a friend of mine who is a renowned chemist.

 

[Katya]

http://vapers.org.uk/wp-content/upl...e-E-Liquid-PMTAs-Legitimacy-Not-Confirmed.pdf

Are they kidding????

We're screwed.

 

[zoiDman]

I'll leave the testing and results to a friend of mine who is a renowned chemist.

Ask your Friend to look for WTA's.

 

[inspects]

http://www.e-liquidzine.com/nicotine/

Paragraph from the link.

Our love affair with tobacco and nicotine is well documented throughout recorded and indeed unrecorded history. One might think that after all these years we might have perfected synthetic nicotine production. Synthetic nicotine has been explored and successfully produced. But it still remains economically unfeasible compared to agricultural or botanical extraction. Its use has been reserved for industrial production, mainly as a pesticide.

 

[Kent C]

Are they kidding????

We're screwed.

It's still a 'leaked doc' just one where you can do searches, copy, etc. Not official and see my other post here:

oh ... you 'liked' it... this part:

" In a statement to The Hill Wednesday, FDA rep Michael Felberbaum said the FDA has not yet issued its final rule, so any documents are still in draft form."

 

[Katya]

It's still a 'leaked doc' just one where you can do searches, copy, etc. Not official and see my other post here:

oh ... you 'liked' it... this part:

" In a statement to The Hill Wednesday, FDA rep Michael Felberbaum said the FDA has not yet issued its final rule, so any documents are still in draft form."

Right, Mr. F. He's sympathetic to the concerns of small businesses.

The vape debate: Is it good or bad for Orange County to be the 'Silicon Valley' of vaping? - The Orange County Register

The usual mixed bag: safer than cigarettes, but not not completely safe, we don't know, etc... "Antifreeze" , "wild West", and PHE findings all duly noted. Calls Orange County the Silicon Valley of vaping. Yey!

Interesting email from the FDA quoted:

"“The FDA’s mandate is to protect Americans from tobacco-related disease and death in today’s rapidly evolving marketplace,” Michael Felberbaum, a press officer with the agency, wrote in response to an emailed question about its pending new e-cigarette regulations.

“Under the proposed rule, all newly deemed tobacco products would require market authorization” from the agency, Felberbaum noted. He added that the FDA is sympathetic to the concerns of small businesses and is proposing to stagger the compliance dates."

Hey, the FDA is sympathetic!

Please contact the writer, if you wish...

We're so screwed.

 

[Major Meatwad]

Robin, I found this one - you can search and copy stuff, where as on that one you can only do screen shots - and/or OCR like Zoidman did Don't know if anyone else posted it. (heck, I may have :- ) Anyway:

http://vapers.org.uk/wp-content/upl...e-E-Liquid-PMTAs-Legitimacy-Not-Confirmed.pdf

Thanks for this link

I read through some it and they are even calling "software" and programming as part of tobacco products.
So the FDA can regulate the Software industry too? WTH?
Didn't know I could consume programs.
Better confiscate all computers,androids and i-phones made after 2007 that do not have a pre market approval (PMT)!

There is a re occurring theme. "tobacco derived" products. Products used to inhale "tobacco products" are called ENDS.
ENDS = Electronic Nicotine Delivery Device.
ENDS is essentially any tobacco vape related product.

FDA wants PMT for all ENDS devices from effective date of Ruling.
There is one bright spot.
Raw tobacco nicotine products used for manufacture will not have to have PMT
So nicotine will still be available.

Which brings to mind, What about other states that have devices used for inhaling {other stuff}?

Obviously another market type will emerge that isn't tobacco related.
But truly Vaping isn't Tobacco related.
I'll just vape my tomato juice from now on.

All this will do is force us to buy devices used for medical {Other stuff} use and if we do not live in one of those states, Us nicotine users will have to move there to get the equipment.
So we all better get on the band wagon and be pro {Other stuff} legalization Federally on a state wide level.

ENDS ends all!

So [HASHTAG]#EndENDS[/HASHTAG]

 

[pennysmalls]

See that's the trouble, I don't see Evolve or ANY vape companies doing anything. In a way it's the companies fault, the companies should be going to Washington and explain what will happen to the White House,

Is Evolve a big vape company? I'm not familiar with them. I don't know how many companies actually have the kind of clout needed to sway minds in Washington but if some of them do have that kind of power I too wish they'd step up.

 

[Katya]

Is Evolve a big vape company? I'm not familiar with them. I don't know how many companies actually have the kind of clout needed to sway minds in Washington but if some of them do have that kind of power I too wish they'd step up.

They gave us the Darwin (first vw device, I believe) and the Evolv DNA 40--temperature limiting technology.

 

[pennysmalls]

They gave us the Darwin (first vw device, I believe) and the Evolv DNA 40--temperature limiting technology.

Ah, OK. My knowledge is limited to ego twists, Provari's and Reo's.

 

[kbeam418]

Is Evolve a big vape company? I'm not familiar with them. I don't know how many companies actually have the kind of clout needed to sway minds in Washington but if some of them do have that kind of power I too wish they'd step up.

No they are not the large by themselves but imagine if the thousands of b&m stores called or better yet went on news stations and explained what vaping is. If COMPANIES contact the government and actually pointed out the real issues in vaping and how to solve them without 1,000s of Americans losing there jobs it would be a different story.

See that's the problem with vaping there's so many people that hate it, and no juice companies are defending themselves. I want to see the manufacturers on Fox showing facts and talking about what regulations are necessary (none are but to shut the anti smoking community) instead of sitting around waiting for the inevitable.

 

[Rossum]

Assuming the nicotine was property extracted and purified there would be no way to tell from testing if it came from tobacco or from any other sub species of the potatoe family or was synthetic.

I expect you're right that it would be extremely difficult to differentiate between different plant derived nicotines if they were sufficiently purified, but I also expect that synthetic nic would be relatively easy due to the presence of R-isomers. Plants have an an uncanny ability to produce just the L-isomer, whereas it's my understanding that synthetic methods produce both isomers in equal amounts and they're very difficult (read expensive) to separate. See also:
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/l-and-d-nicotine.92643/

 

[Kent C]

I read through some it and they are even calling "software" and programming as part of tobacco products.
So the FDA can regulate the Software industry too? WTH?

This may be the for the upgradeable mods - the eVic was one early one and the Joyetech VTC mini can also be upgraded. IOW, anything to do with an ENDS is "regulatable".