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U.S.A: PACT Act 2009

Discussion in 'Law and the E-Cigarette' started by AngeLsLuv, Sep 11, 2009.

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  1. DRR91075

    DRR91075 Full Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 20, 2009
    Louisiana
    That is a meaningless poll. Primarily e-cig users know of it and vote in it. I fear non-smokers will support the legislation. Worse yet, ex-smokers (non-e-cig users) , whom I think we all can agree are worse than non-smokers, will overwhelmingly support it.
     
  2. WarrLordd

    WarrLordd Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 8, 2009
    America is only free when you have to pay taxes :) Land of the free...My ...

    No wonder there's so many homeless people on the streets if you try to make a small little project and sell it for nothing and don't pay taxes on it then you ... is grass the FDA is coming for ya...

    Even granny who's having her yard sale would soon have to pay taxes .. Cause the reason of her yard sale is possibly to pay of some of her debts/taxes ..

    I mean some say everything is going to be fine others think not. If we start giving into the FDA things are going to get worst for the e-cig manufactures.

    1: Prices will sore sooner or later if FDA controls Nicotine Vaping Products
    2: They might splif it with more than enough nicotine so the can raise prices like every other tabacco product they been abusing every year.
    3: Normal tabacco products will start having the same ingredients sooner or later so both would compare the same. (Meaning an average analog smoker won't care for the difference)
     
  3. Stubby

    Stubby Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 22, 2009
    Madison, WI USA
  4. telsie

    telsie Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 26, 2009
    Maryland
    Wouldn't a bill like that effectively put small tobacco shops out of business? 7-11 may get tobacco products delivered by their own trucks every night, but if this "non-mailable" thing includes all delivery services like UPS and FEDEX, a small tobacco shop wouldn't even be able to order inventory.

    This won't pass.
     
  5. Stubby

    Stubby Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 22, 2009
    Madison, WI USA
    From my understanding of the bill it would not effect tobacco stores. Only personal sales would be effected. In fact the purpose of the bill is to get people into tobacco stores where the state and feds can collet the taxes.

    The people that will really get hurt, besides anyone who orders via the internet, is the american Indian. Because the tribes are sovereign nations under treaty (theoretically, and I don't understand all the ins and outs of that) they have been selling a lot of tobacco products via the internet. I work with a Native American who clued me in on some of it. They grow their own tobacco and control the process from end to end. This would be a hugh blow to the income of many Native Americans.
     
  6. Halcyon

    Halcyon Unregistered Supplier

    Nov 5, 2009
    Winchester, VA
    "Dear Senator Webb,

    I am writing you today concerning the bill S. 1147, "The PACT Act." My problem with this proposed legislation is that if passed, it would effectively cut off all importation of electronic cigarette devices (henceforth referred to as "e-cigarettes") due to the restrictions placed with the intention of retaining revenue from in-state sales taxes. By not allowing tobacco-related products to be shipped via any parcel service, and with the vast majority of e-cigarette production occurring overseas, this will leave no choice for the American e-cigarette user but to continue smoking "analog" cigarettes and damaging his or her own body.
    The e-cigarette and related devices are designed to supply preexisting smokers with an alternative product that is extremely similar to their harmful "analog" cigarettes consisting of tobacco rolled in paper with the option of a filter. These new devices are significantly safer to use regularly and have next to no harmful effects on the body. The proof that "analog" cigarettes are harmful is quite overwhelming, and one cannot argue the fact that the switch to an e-cigarette is a healthy choice.
    Several people I am familiar with, including myself, in addition to thousands people I have made contact with via internet bulletin boards have completely quit smoking "analog" cigarettes and have chosen to use e-cigarettes to live a healthier and cleaner lifestyle. In my opinion, the e-cigarette is saving lives, but only time can prove this to be fact, unfortunately.
    I urge you consider the effects of the afforementioned legislation before casting your vote. Thousands and thousands of current e-cigarette users will lose the freedom to choose a healthy alternative without giving up the recreational activity of smoking that we enjoy.

    Sincerely,
    James K. Helsley"


    I did my part, now do yours! I wrote to Sen. Warner as well, don't forget to write both, even if it's copypasta. It took me 9 minutes to write that and I'll possibly get a lifetime of vaping if the message gets through. Time well spent. If not, well, time to shoot the 'ole Nicotine Horse again. No way I'm smoking analogs again, my woman hates 'em.
     
  7. TropicalBob

    TropicalBob Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jan 13, 2008
    Port Charlotte, FL USA
    This bill will have a far more negative impact on harm reduction products than the recently passed Family Smoking Prevention bill that handed authority over tobacco to the FDA. This shuts down supplies of snus, nasal snuff, disssolvables ... anything not available from your local tobacco store.

    This bill is truly End Game for many of us, myself very much included. How many nicotine addicts will be condemned to die of a smoking-related condition because fools making laws cannot see the health consequences of their actions?
     
  8. jadeninja

    jadeninja Senior Member ECF Veteran

    How's that Hope And Change working out for you.

    We need to fight progressives in this country. In their mind, they know better than you. The progressive statist wants to control you, because they want to help you!

    What a lie. Just keep pissing us off. See what happens. :evil:
     
  9. jadeninja

    jadeninja Senior Member ECF Veteran


    We fight them Bob. We don't just sit by and let them do this. We set up class action lawsuits. We fight them in civil court. We fight them constituionally. We fight them at the ballot box. We raise public awareness on forums like this. We fight Bob. This is America. We will find a way. We always have, we always will. We find alternatives. We stand together, united for the cause.

    Jim Webb doesn't give a crap about us, or his constituents. He is part of the progressive nanny state agenda to exhurt control.

    Educate yourself about the early 20th century progressives, that what these people model themselves after. The Woodrow Wilson's of history, the eugenics crowd, the societal archetect crowd.

    This is who we are up against. What damn business of theirs is it what we do. Who are we harming in the process, ourselves?

    Since vaping, I feel better. Tons better! I have more energy and stamina. So what is this about?

    Their answer to banning e-cigs and snus and whatever else is a better and SAFER alternative (dare I say it, it is so politically incorrect to do so), and the arguement of e cigs users is that we will have to go back to tobacco . . . Their answer will be just quit all together. That is what they will say. Guaranteed.

    So I say stand up! Stand up to "MelonHead" Jim Webb. Stand up to Nanny State Pelosi. Tell them NO YOU WON'T.... And if you do . . . you will join the long lines of unemployed . . . and after you are out of office, we are going to sue your ... for neferious interference

    Passion and fight, folks VAPE STRONG
     
  10. TropicalBob

    TropicalBob Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jan 13, 2008
    Port Charlotte, FL USA
    Strong words, but this bill is about money. Nothing else. It is about taxable products being sold on the Internet without taxes being collected. How to stop that? Shut down delivery. Mandate so much record-keeping that small companies give up shipping. Charge fees the little guys can't pay.

    Force people into local tobacco stores where full taxes must always be collected and turned over to government.

    Consumers voted overwhelmingly against this bill in a poll on that government site. The consumer opinion makes no difference. It's governments -- state and local -- that want taxes collected on the sales of all tobacco products.

    Other arguments might be nanny-state. This isn't. This is a cash register issue supported by every financially-strapped government body, local, state and federal.
     
  11. sattec

    sattec Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 4, 2009
    mcallen texas
    "And if a kid is going to smoke, wouldn't you, as a parent, rather they use an e-cig over starting analogs? At least the e-cig isn't as detremental to their overall health"

    for sure! a teenager would lose interest in e-cigs real fast....too complicated for such a little "bang".
     
  12. dubnluvn

    dubnluvn Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 14, 2009
    San Diego, Ca
    I would definitely agree that the 'cool' and 'convenience' factor are definitely not up to teenager standards. Some are going to vape, sure, but likely as a transition from smoking. I think it would be an extremely unlikely that would start vaping having not smoked before. Also think of all the stuff that goes along with it. Bottles of juice, chargers, spare carts, atty, batteries. These are not inconspicuous gadgets that can be easily hidden from parents in one's own home, unlike cigarettes that can be easily stashed without the need for maintenance. Not only that, but this is largely a mail/online order industry giving parents another 'line of defense' so to speak. The amount of effort it would take for a minor to vape with any regularity would far exceed the pleasure he or she would get from it. It would also require parents who are extremely naive or uninvolved in their childs life, or simply don't care. While it could be done with e-cigs, smoking tobacco cigarettes requires significantly less effort to hide.
     
  13. TropicalBob

    TropicalBob Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jan 13, 2008
    Port Charlotte, FL USA
    How did this thread move from a discussion of a bill before the Senate Judiciary Committee and its ramifications to whether a teen will think e-smoking is cool?

    Honestly, I went back two pages and can't find any post the previous two posts address.

    People, we have threads devoted to teen use, non-smoker use, firemen-in-the-bathroom use, whatever bugs you. This thread is about one of the most important tobacco bills you'll likely encounter in your lifetime. Let's talk about it. Not other things.
     
  14. sattec

    sattec Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 4, 2009
    mcallen texas
    post 41 Bob, try to keep up, ....
     
  15. Sun Vaporer

    Sun Vaporer Moved On ECF Veteran

    Jan 2, 2009
    Florida
    TB is right here--People need to stay on topic---there are literally hundereds of threads created every day and we can only keep up on so many of them to keep them on topic.

    This is one of the threads we want "Clean"--so please stay on topic.

    Thanks


    Sun
     
  16. sattec

    sattec Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 4, 2009
    mcallen texas
    then go back and delete everything off topic....clean up the thread.
     
  17. Sun Vaporer

    Sun Vaporer Moved On ECF Veteran

    Jan 2, 2009
    Florida

    Sattec--we do not do that because people do not like it. We only do it if the thread starts out with that warning.


    Sun
     
  18. kristin

    kristin Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 16, 2009
    CASAA - Wisconsin
    HEY! Don't blame me - it started before I got here on post #36! 8-o
     
  19. angjen0816

    angjen0816 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 19, 2009
    Menasha, WI
    well if someone is gonna organize, PM me and I'll help.
     
  20. Brewster 59

    Brewster 59 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    This is a total money grab hiding under the skirts of keeping those under 18 from buying tob. Heres the deal to be able to buy online you need a credit card And really I dont think many kids under the age of 18 have cc also it would be very easy to require a sig and ID on all packages containing nic products but as I say this has nothing to do with keeping nic away from minors. I don't know about you peeps but if the GD govt shuts down ecigs I am going to do everything possible to keep off smokes. I will do anything to keep from giving these aholes what they want.
     
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