Vape Responsibly : Campaign

[bnrkwest]

I'd like to start listing Vendors here that do comply with having battery safety listings on the webpage and that sell actual AW batteries from AW directly or a AW dealer. This way we can start letting people know who is a safer seller.
So the first I would like to add to this list is:

High Desert Ecigs High Desert Ecigs - Age Verification

He has the ECF battery warning listed on his webpage at the bottom and he also buys his AW batteries directly from AW so no counterfeits. He is a super vendor with great service and always willing to help out his customers. So shop with confidence!

bnrk

 

[mwa102464]

Well there setting a recommendation for safety with APV's right ? so why not do the same for Battery safety ? It would only be a safety sheet with recommendations for Battery safety,,,, No liability taken and clearly stated,,, Nobodys name on this templeted safety guide not ECF's or vendors, just a simple Battery precaution sheet. The thought is just having every vendor using the same Batt safety piece in every sale, just a thought

 

[bnrkwest]

I can already see that reply. We cant take that much liability were not that kind of entity. Technically ECF would be taking on some amount of liability if that happened. Dont you think?

Basically that is what Roly said, it is up to the vendors to do that. But ECF does have it mods requirement standards to be approved as safer by ECF, so that is at least a start! brnk

 

[kwalka]

I'd like to start listing Vendors here that do comply with having battery safety listings on the webpage and that sell actual AW batteries from AW directly or a AW dealer. This way we can start letting people know who is a safer seller.
So the first I would like to add to this list is:

High Desert Ecigs High Desert Ecigs - Age Verification

He has the ECF battery warning listed on his webpage at the bottom and he also buys his AW batteries directly from AW so no counterfeits. He is a super vendor with great service and always willing to help out his customers. So shop with confidence!

bnrk

YES!!! Now were getting somewhere. Can we be sued? I cant really see a suit against members for creating our own "list of vendors known to be following effective ECF approved safety standards"
I have a 2yr old squeezing my leg...You know what I mean.

 

[BuGlen]

I couldn't agree more, we have to be sure APV users are armed with information so they can use it safely. If they have no info and they think these batts are like AA batteries, then Houston we have a problem. We just want everyone to know from the start that these batteries have a responsibility and everyone needs to know how to use them and which ones are safer in their own APV. I use 3 tube mods, so I have to use different batteries for each. I now know why from doing alot of searching and reading, we want everyone to know because it sounds like many are not making the right choice when buying these batteries. bnrk

So, IMO, this is where we are hitting a wall. If the above mentioned scenario plays out, the only way the "friend" is going to get any warning at all, assuming the purchaser just clicks ok w/o reading, is if there is a note in the device where the batts go.

IMO, we would need someone from ECF w some clout to get the vendors to even listen, nevermind actually comply.

Agreed fully. Getting support from the ECF staff for this type of initiative is probably crucial. The information Rolygate posted in the post linked in kwalka's signature is a start and hopefully shows that we can get the support we need. Here's an excerpt from that post that's related to this topic:

Suppliers should include VERY CLEAR warnings about unprotected batteries with their products. We advise that a printed insert is placed inside the body of the device, that tells the buyer to only use protected rechargeable batteries (or Li-Mn or Li-FePo4). Note that although the risk increases when batteries are placed in series, meltdowns have occurred with single batteries.

And also from this page, recently updated to include battery safety information to be shipped with APVs:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-ecf-metal-tubemods-safety-specification.html

Important Note
APVs should have an info sheet attached. This guide should state how the device can be used and not used. Batteries are an important part of this information: what cells must be used, and what charger. A warning not to use any other type of battery should be included (and especially not primary cells [regular batteries] or unprotected Li-ion cells such as RC123's). This type of guide and safety info is standard for all consumer products. Omitting this sheet (or manual) leaves a vendor open to action as it is a basic requirement. We suggest that the info sheet can be rolled and inserted in the device; or rolled around it and attached with an elastic band; or be placed at the top of the package such that the device cannot be used without seeing the info sheet or manual.

I believe these show that this concern is growing and the support of the ECF staff and community is there.

I still think ECF should Templet a safety letter that every single vendor should use, and then they just fill in the Batt there using in there Mod. This way it would set a standard for the industry and every single vendor would be using the same templeted safety letter. Just my 2c on this one,,, but if ECF is setting a standard for APV safety in Mods then why not set a standard for safety in the industry too with a Battery safety spec sheet. The same templet letter for every vendor would sure be a nice place to start, then every vendor is using the same.

I can already see that reply. We cant take that much liability were not that kind of entity. Technically ECF would be taking on some amount of liability if that happened. Dont you think?

A template might not be the best approach, although I don't know that it would be more of a liability concern for ECF. As I mentioned above, Roly has already posted standards to be considered, and expanding upon those standards with more detail might be the way to go. And I would add that providing what information is included is not the only important part, but providing it in an easy to understand format for non-technical people is critical as well.

 

[kwalka]

PC problems I'll b back in a few

 

[kwalka]

Agreed fully. Getting support from the ECF staff for this type of initiative is probably crucial. The information Rolygate posted in the post linked in kwalka's signature is a start and hopefully shows that we can get the support we need. Here's an excerpt from that post that's related to this topic:



And also from this page, recently updated to include battery safety information to be shipped with APVs:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-ecf-metal-tubemods-safety-specification.html



I believe these show that this concern is growing and the support of the ECF staff and community is there.





A template might not be the best approach, although I don't know that it would be more of a liability concern for ECF. As I mentioned above, Roly has already posted standards to be considered, and expanding upon those standards with more detail might be the way to go. And I would add that providing what information is included is not the only important part, but providing it in an easy to understand format for non-technical people is critical as well.

I have not read thru since he made the amendments. It sounds like he's all over it. I am willing to call this a huge step in the right direction, simply because this dialogue got him to amend the EMSS to reflect these ideas. And obviously the fact that it will help save faces, literally.

 

[BuGlen]

I have not read thru since he made the amendments. It sounds like he's all over it. I am willing to call this a huge step in the right direction, simply because this dialogue got him to amend the EMSS to reflect these ideas. And obviously the fact that it will help save faces, literally.

Absolutely. I really think the information provided in the Colorado incident thread is what brought much of this to light (including this campaign). Eventually, that thread will die down (maybe?), and we'll continue to have this thread to keep the dialog and the initiative moving forward.

 

[kwalka]

I really like the idea of running our own "safe vendor" or "safer" or "best bet" list, in addition to whatever the vendors choose to do.If we get enough reputable members on board it could have a real impact. Heck you already have had a great impact!

 

[IronAP]

Right. But as were discussing in the "Colorado" thread, a vaper purchased an APV for a friend who does not have internet, so he was completly in the dark, allegedly, and Darwin stepped in. That is where one of the problems lie. I do not recognize you from that thread you should check it out.
Colorado man sues after explosion

Yes I saw the thread, and the original quoted article clearly states he purchased the PV online, for himself, and then purchased the wrong batteries.
I agree it is a great idea for vendors here to give a proper warning about batteries and some do.
Maybe make it an ECF requirement for forum suppliers to have such a warning.
Seems that there there is always that one ignorant person who will ruin it for everyone. This does not seem to be a case of a faulty product but the improper use of incompatible parts.
Like the "caution diesel fuel only" labels. You know there is always that one person who put gasoline into the diesel powered machine regardless.
My beef is, once the lawyers get involved with our hobby, we will be forced to purchase awesome, innovative products plastered with safety warnings.
Do you want to spend $100 plus dollars on the newest vv mod with laser engraved warnings? I don't. And I won't.

 

[bnrkwest]

I'd like to start listing Vendors here that do comply with having battery safety listings on the webpage and that sell actual AW batteries from AW directly or a AW dealer. This way we can start letting people know who is a safer seller.
So the first I would like to add to this list is:

High Desert Ecigs High Desert Ecigs - Age Verification

He has the ECF battery warning listed on his webpage at the bottom and he also buys his AW batteries directly from AW so no counterfeits. He is a super vendor with great service and always willing to help out his customers. So shop with confidence!

bnrk

Just want to update, I talked to John about a tube mod he sells called Indulgence, it takes one batt to use at 3.7, that is in compliance. With 2 stacked batts than can be used, this unit is not in compliance. I have asked if he will put some warning info about stacked batts since it is not in compliance with stacked.

But as a battery vendor he sells AW directly from the supplier. So that is good! bnrk

 

[bnrkwest]

Yes I saw the thread, and the original quoted article clearly states he purchased the PV online, for himself, and then purchased the wrong batteries.
I agree it is a great idea for vendors here to give a proper warning about batteries and some do.
Maybe make it an ECF requirement for forum suppliers to have such a warning.
Seems that there there is always that one ignorant person who will ruin it for everyone. This does not seem to be a case of a faulty product but the improper use of incompatible parts.
Like the "caution diesel fuel only" labels. You know there is always that one person who put gasoline into the diesel powered machine regardless.
My beef is, once the lawyers get involved with our hobby, we will be forced to purchase awesome, innovative products plastered with safety warnings.
Do you want to spend $100 plus dollars on the newest vv mod with laser engraved warnings? I don't. And I won't.

I love that idea! To be approved EFC vendor all have to list the rechargeable warning on their webpage. Even AW dealers do that! SO we need to get up to speed. I was also reading about the dangers letting AW batts drain below a certain level and it degrades the battery, alot of stuff we need get out there to the general public. bnrk

 

[BuGlen]

Just want to update, I talked to John about a tube mod he sells called Indulgence, it takes one batt to use at 3.7, that is in compliance. With 2 stacked batts than can be used, this unit is not in compliance. I have asked if he will put some warning info about stacked batts since it is not in compliance with stacked.

But as a battery vendor he sells AW directly from the supplier. So that is good! bnrk

I would say that battery stacking is another area of compliance that needs more information and research. If the manufacturer of the battery says that stacking is an acceptable use of the batteries (they are made to handle the addition current flow), then they should also have information as to the load that is safe with that type of use. While I will probably never use something that requires stacking, I can see where others might want to, if it can be done within the safety parameters.

 

[bnrkwest]

I would say that battery stacking is another area of compliance that needs more information and research. If the manufacturer of the battery says that stacking is an acceptable use of the batteries (they are made to handle the addition current flow), then they should also have information as to the load that is safe with that type of use. While I will probably never use something that requires stacking, I can see where others might want to, if it can be done within the safety parameters.

This is what Roly is working on for listing vendors that sell staked units in compliance http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-ecf-metal-tubemods-safety-specification.html

It is definitely needed but you are right the batts used also need to be approved for stacking. bnrk

 

[kwalka]

Yes I saw the thread, and the original quoted article clearly states he purchased the PV online, for himself, and then purchased the wrong batteries.
I agree it is a great idea for vendors here to give a proper warning about batteries and some do.
Maybe make it an ECF requirement for forum suppliers to have such a warning.
Seems that there there is always that one ignorant person who will ruin it for everyone. This does not seem to be a case of a faulty product but the improper use of incompatible parts.
Like the "caution diesel fuel only" labels. You know there is always that one person who put gasoline into the diesel powered machine regardless.
My beef is, once the lawyers get involved with our hobby, we will be forced to purchase awesome, innovative products plastered with safety warnings.
Do you want to spend $100 plus dollars on the newest vv mod with laser engraved warnings? I don't. And I won't.

I'm afraid were talking about 2 diff things. I'm not saying its not possible that I'm missing it here. That is very possible. I going strong in 4 diff threads at the same time. My mind remembers reading he did purchase said APV and then his friend wantrd the same but did not have internet so he got the same 1 for him. This also explains why he did not have access to the safety warnings and battery specs.
I'm the one who posted in that thread that were witnessing first hand the transference of our biggest problem being mistaken for smokers to "get away from me w that bomb".
So, I am w you on that 100%.

 

[mwa102464]

Uhg,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I dont think anyone is going to "approve" A batt for stacking myself

 

[BuGlen]

Uhg,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I dont think anyone is going to "approve" A batt for stacking myself

And that's fine if that's what comes of it. If it is determined that battery stacking just isn't worth the risk, regardless of manufacturer specs, then so be it. We've seen issues with both stacked and single battery APVs, so I just don't believe it can't be singled out as the biggest issue, but only time will tell.

 

[bnrkwest]

This info was supplied by Jay from GLV on his forum, it is a great resource about AW batteries.

AW Batteries and Charger Flashlight Reviews

AW's LiIon Batteries Sales Thread *Part 10*

Note that the above dealer of AW says in this post: DO NOT use LiIon batteries if you don't know the dangers about them and how to handle them.

If the battery sellers are telling us this, we sure should be telling APV users the same thing! Know your batteries and the risks! Heads up everyone bnrk

 

[bnrkwest]

Uhg,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I dont think anyone is going to "approve" A batt for stacking myself

They do for flashlights don't they? But is what we ask of stacked in a tube mod more dangerous than a flashlight? I am just asking because I am not sure ?? bnrk

 

[bnrkwest]

The Battery University- Lithium-ion Safety Concerns – Battery University worth the read. bnrk