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Vaping gave me Eosinophilic Pneumonia, and I DONT use THC of any kind.

Discussion in 'Health, Safety and Vaping' started by vaperXant, Sep 29, 2019.

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  1. Vapntime

    Vapntime Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 22, 2013
    Brisbane, Australia
    When are you quitting...
     
  2. mel_vin

    mel_vin Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 26, 2010
    Toronto
    Thats interesting how you decide to take a "Break". I enjoyed smoking, but knew it was bad. Vaping took a long time for me to get the "enjoyment" factor out of it, but it became the new normal and I enjoyed vaping. But always at the back of my mind I was always worried about it. Are we doing more harm, new harm we dont know of yet etc. And one thing is, it was way to easy to vape alot. I vaped more than I ever smoked and I didnt know what to make of that. I found I could get phlemgy and wheezy during a session. It would clear up if I wouldnt vape for a while, so I just attributed it to that.

    Im very emotional today, I think Im def feeling nic withdrawl. Its interesting to see these symptoms as I go more time without vaping. Today I have my gear with me but tucked away out of sight / mind. If I really feel the need I will. I really wanted to cut down on the amount I vaped so Im glad to see what my tolerence has been right now.

    Compared to quiting smoking, this is interesting as some of the feelings are a bit similar. The only weird one Im finding is, I feel "lonely". Weird.
     
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  3. puffon

    puffon Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 18, 2014
    The Villages, FL
    I did quit smoking after having a stroke and went blind in one eye.
    Was told I had a 50/50 chance of it affecting the other eye within 5 years.
    So far I'm good, have had CT scans, heart monitors implanted, stress tests every 6 months, EKGs every 3.
    My cardiologist and pulmonologist are fine with my vaping.
    When are you quitting?...
     
  4. Opinionated

    Opinionated Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 19, 2015
    My Mountain
    If the doctors were telling me that I was sick with a rare disease the definite cause was vaping and this wasn't an isolated incident but a now common occurrence such as the OP of this thread is trying to say I'll guarantee you my husband wouldn't be vaping the next day..

    unless it was, I don't know, not true.
     
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  5. Vapntime

    Vapntime Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 22, 2013
    Brisbane, Australia
    I 'encourage' you both to quit...
     
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  6. Opinionated

    Opinionated Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 19, 2015
    My Mountain
    I just came off a year and a half nicotine-free, only came back to nicotine due to personal stress and while I was nicotine free I only vaped an average of 1ml of ejuice per week, just a few puffs here and there to assuage the hand to mouth habit instead of doing food or candy of some type..

    If I feared vaping at all there are far too many choices for me to go to not to leave vaping behind in seconds flat.
     
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  7. puffon

    puffon Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 18, 2014
    The Villages, FL
    Have no reason to yet.
     
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  8. madstabber

    madstabber Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    To the OP: my post was not an attack I was just questioning how you came to the conclusion that vaping was the cause. Most others that you have categorized attacks are doing the same and for good reason. It’s way too early to say what has caused your health problems which makes me wonder about these doctors investigating the part vaping plays in this illness when it hasn’t been determined to play any part at all. Are they starting with: Vaping has caused this now let’s figure out how? Also the vast majority of vapers know vaping has risks. If they don’t then they haven’t investigated vaping at all so probably don’t care they just know it’s better than smoking.
     
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  9. Jman8

    Jman8 Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jan 15, 2013
    Wisconsin
    I'm not sure there are any vapers here who think of vaping as 'completely safe.' But for us who have been vaping for nearly a decade, we do think (I would say rightfully so) that it is relatively safe. Even with your issue added to the mix, it's relatively safe.

    Drinking water is relatively safe. I'd say more safe than vaping. But drinking water is not completely safe.

    As one who's researched the history of smoking tobacco, I doubt many, or really any, thought of smoking as completely safe.

    I find it rational to be skeptical of smoking data. Especially considering the messaging and how that is playing out in real time with regards to vaping.

    Can you quote anyone, anywhere on this forum, that talks about vaping as a risk-free solution? I would think you could since you say you once believed this. So go dig up one of your old posts where you speak of vaping as risk-free. I look forward to reading that.
     
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  10. Jman8

    Jman8 Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jan 15, 2013
    Wisconsin
    I believe I was clear on what deserved bashing. Here, I'll quote it again (from your OP):

    Again, I think this deserves to be bashed. All the items regarding your personal health issues, DOES NOT DESERVE BASHING. Not sure if I can make that more clear.

    But, "hopefully get the word out that this (aka vaping) can be harmful" is what I feel deserves bashing. Scrutiny at the very very least.

    Agreed, there is nothing wrong with sharing what happened to you. Disagree that you gave a warning, or if that's what you want to call "vaping can be harmful" then again, I think that deserves scrutiny/bashing.

    So yeah, that idea of "we as a community enforced it as being risk free smoking solution" is what I'd really really like to see you back up. Cause you've now stated twice that you believed this. I currently know of no one in the ECF community that espouses vaping as a risk free solution. You are claiming that the entire community was conveying that idea.

    I think (just guessing) that half of us who are confronting you without kid gloves are convinced it was juice related and the other half think it was gear related.

    Either way, it still really really stinks that you got to experience illness from vaping. There is no denying that. Again, not sure how to make that more clear.

    I do realize whatever I follow that up with that leads to scrutiny may come off as some desire to ignore your experience of illness. But I really do think I'm being clear. The idea that "vaping is harmful" is where you are butting heads with some of us. Rightfully so. And the idea that you think we as a community not only believe, but are preaching the notion that vaping is harmless is a matter of dispute. I personally believe very few to none of us are saying this. Ever.

    Sorry, but my experience is that it has gotten rid of colds. You are welcome to doubt that and even dispute it, but I'll be glad to share my experiences on this. I also believe vaping nicotine keeps me more alert throughout my day. I think those items along with enjoyment of flavors and enjoyment of the ritual of vaping that closely resembles the ritual of smoking, are all positives of the vaping experience.

    And I do think there are negative items that one can honestly share with regards to the vaping experience.

    But with all the positives that I've experienced, I do not think of vaping as harmless and would like to be called out if I've ever gotten to that extreme.

    In the above quote you said, "here is def some evidence at this point that long term exposure to vaping may cause issues and that certain juices or gear could be producing unexpected long term effects."

    Guess what? I agree with this. And would say it is significantly and noticeably different than what you conveyed in the OP. The "stop vaping" in all caps thing is hard to read on a vape forum, without some reasonable scrutiny being applied.

    Me, I do honestly think if you had changed juices, and/or changed gear, you'd be still vaping and nothing would be seriously going on. But we may never know the answer to that. And yet I say this because that is alternative message to stop vaping.

    Doctor, I drank 9 gallons of water yesterday and got really ill. Doctor says, "Well stop doing that." Oh, okay I'll go tell everyone that drinking water is harmful and my doctor said to stop it.
     
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  11. vaperXant

    vaperXant Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 10, 2014
    New Mexico
    This ^, If she were showing symptoms I would encourage her to stop, but I don't think this is nessasarily a widespread issue, rather something that is related to specific segments of people. I won't even answer the question from the other poster about why she still vapes or if she is in a study, that's just trolling she vapes for the same reason I did and everyone else does here, because it's addicting and enjoyable, and for most people a better option then smoking.
     
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  12. vaperXant

    vaperXant Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 10, 2014
    New Mexico
    Thank you!
     
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  13. vaperXant

    vaperXant Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 10, 2014
    New Mexico
    Good luck bud, I might consider picking up some nico pouches as I mentioned before, might make it easier
     
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  14. vaperXant

    vaperXant Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 10, 2014
    New Mexico
    Just because I had side effects from it, doesn't mean everyone will but there are people that are pretty clearly at this point. That said, she's been fine. She smoked at a much lower wattage than I did and generally there is prob more to this as to who is getting sick and why. Just like you have 70 year smokers who live to there are 95 and die of natural causes, aka not lung cancer.

    I never tried to make a point that this will cause issues for everyone, nor should it be interpreted that way. But I do believe certain segments can get sick from this, and I shared what happened to me, a basic early detection method and the end result of NOT stopping (EO / Hospitalization).

    If my wife had any of the issues I did, then I would encourage her to stop. But just like she couldn't MAKE me stop when I was sick, I can't make her do anything she doesn't want. She went to EVERY doc's appointment with me, and knows the risks, but she like the many people in this forum is OK. Could that change in 10 years if she doesn't stop, sure. But at least we know the early signs...

    I am not on some mission to stop people from vaping, I just wanted to share my experience. There was at least one person in this thread that had ordered an O2 meter to check because they might have seen some similar side effects, to me that's a win because it might actually help save there life if they are in the same boat I was. In the future, I am sure people will google eosinophilic pneumonia vaping and hopefully they will find this thread and have more info then I did.
     
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  15. kates

    kates Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 20, 2014
    United Kingdom
    So my take is that it really is important that people share their negative as well as positive vaping stories as it is important that we can, if necessary, adjust how we vape. I think all posting on this thread would agree with this. However, I do think it's important to use language carefully. I think vaperXant has given some really important information in the thread, it should be taken seriously and respected but it should not be assumed to be 'fact'. 'Vaping gave me Eosinophilic Pneumonia' is not a fact, it is a supposition – 'I believe vaping gave me Eosinophilic Pneumonia...' or 'My doctor thinks vaping gave me Eosinophilic Pneumonia ' is a better reflection of the reality. I think the discussion & posts are actually more reflective of vaperXant's intention than the title. I take the message as - this happened to me as a vaper, my doctor thinks it may be related to vaping & these are the symptoms, it may happen to you too if you vape, if you have these symptoms see a doctor as it may be really serious. This is valid. What is not valid is to say that vaping gives you Eosinophilic Pneumonia or was definitely the cause in vaperXant's case. (It may turn out to be valid in the future). This aspect should be challenged.

    Clearly, if there has been a marked increase in Eosinophilic Pneumonia and if vaping has been identified in most of these cases it needs further research. I hope the doctors/ scientists do a proper investigation with an objective, open mind and include a comparison with smokers. Vaping research needs to be done not just in terms of its inherent safety – but in comparison to smoking tobacco. It is intended as harm reduction. There would also need to be comparisons in other countries to see if this is occurring elsewhere etc. This may seem obvious but unfortunately we all know it will not necessarily be the case.

    I think most vapers know there are no guarantees with vaping - but believe it is likely to be much, much safer than smoking. Current evidence supports this. The number of deaths/ illnesses from smoking around the world is really high so substantial harm reduction would still be a long way from risk free. If we take the PHE 95% and apply it in a really simplistic way – 220 people die from smoking related diseases in the UK every day, 5% of that is 11. So, 11 deaths a day due to vaping in the UK & the 95% would be accurate?
    To date in the UK there have been no deaths linked to vaping (the 2010 death some want to link to vaping was as a result of lipoid pneumonia and doctors erroneously believed nicotine eliquid contained oil). As more people vape - death/ illness figures may change - but they will have to increase drastically to reach levels as harmful as smoking tobacco.
     
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  16. vaperXant

    vaperXant Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 10, 2014
    New Mexico
    Thank you, I agree for the most part but I disagree that comparing smoking deaths with vaping is apprioprate. We are just now reaching a time where a small portion of vapers are hitting the 10 year mark, and even then a lot of them started with rather controlled, really low wattage devices. High wattage devices, all these coils, the massive influx of juices and tons of other variables have hit in the last ~5 years. I personally think high wattage vaping will have some major health implications, as will other things but since we aren't at the point where we have 20, 30, 40, 50 year vapers as we do smokers, it's hard to say if any side effects from extended usage will start to appear.

    After all, in most 10 year smokers you will NOT see lung cancer, or any real negative health side effects. The reason we have such high death rates from smoking is we have an entire generation of people who smoked for a lifetime, we don't have that with so it's not fair to say vaping is so much safer. At this point in the history of vaping, we just don't know and these cases with EO might just be the earliest known cases of a wider issue, or it could be something that happened to small populations. But I don't think the comparisons to the safety of smoking are relevant at all anymore.

    Lung cancer typically does not occur until decades later, even after the smoker stopped years or decades earlier. Your essentially comparing people dying in many times for a lifetime a smoking, to vaping that has only been around for about 10 years and really started to see mass appeal 5 years ago, which is also not just one thing like the basic cig + filter combo but thousands of combinations of gear, juices and gear.
     
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  17. kates

    kates Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 20, 2014
    United Kingdom
    Many of those 10 year vapers also smoked for many, many years prior to vaping. It is not the same as vaping for 10 years/ never smoking. I smoked for 38 years, have vaped for nearly 7 - if I get a lung disease now it may have something to do with the smoking or vaping (or neither). These are things that will make more sense over time. There will be evidence as vaping goes up & over time - whether smoking related diseases drop, stay the same or rise. There is sound research/ evidence that e.g. second hand vape is harmless, many less toxins etc. in liquid vs tobacco, few or no serious health problems reported over 10+ years (until recent outbreak) etc. These safety assessments can only be made in relation to current evidence (which is why PHE reviews every couple of years). Anecdotal reports of improved asthma, COPD not worsening, improved lung function etc. will show in statistics (or not). Smoking is so bad because of the number of deaths caused by it, plus the number of people who have serious long term illnesses related to it. If vaping and smoking are equally harmful then there will be no drop in smoking related deaths or a rise in different vaping related deaths/ illnesses, & of course things may change over time due to more users, different equipment. Unless the vaping illnesses are as bad or worse than the smoking ones - vaping is safer. The question will be - how many, how bad? e.g. Lung cancer will kill you, EO presumably won't if diagnosed in time? Safety and harm are relative.
    Vaping should always be compared to smoking - it is intended as harm reduction. That doesn't mean we shouldn't look at different concerns regarding it - but they should always be looked at in relation to the harms of tobacco. The other option for many vapers is smoking. Are we guinea pigs? Yes, I think so. I'm fine with that. I make my decisions based on my own assessment - I vape low wattage/ low ml as this keeps me off cigarettes. Every one else will make their own assessment and vape (or not) accordingly.
     
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  18. Vapntime

    Vapntime Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 22, 2013
    Brisbane, Australia
    Have you seen the current review on e cigarettes and respiratory health by the British Medical Journal? This is one of the medical journals that supported the UK's vaping is 95% safer than smoking mantra. It's already been linked in the thread but not many people read these days they prefer opinion. It was published around a week ago.

    https://www.bmj.com/content/366/bmj.l5275
     
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  19. kates

    kates Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 20, 2014
    United Kingdom
    I have. The bmj publishes many things - they do not get a free pass on articles being correct. I have yet to check all the references for validity before commenting (and to assess whether relevant research has been omitted). A starting point is to note who paid for the research. I do not rely on opinion - my comments are based on a LOT of research over the years and I do try to make a very considered and balanced assessment before I comment on anything.
     
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  20. Vapntime

    Vapntime Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 22, 2013
    Brisbane, Australia
    Does that mean some of your information could be outdated? There are over 190 peer reviewed studies in the review. Does it also mean BMJ was incorrect in supporting the 95% safety mantra? I think we can assume with the high standing of the BMJ in the medical world that we don't have to consider basic critical analyzing of study 101.
     
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