Vaping gave me Eosinophilic Pneumonia, and I DONT use THC of any kind.

[Blitzdonlife]

I think in a large population of nicotine e-liquid vapers there are bound to be some who have adverse affects from the inhalation of one or more of the components that they've used. Going on a crusade against vaping because of a near-death experience is understandable. It is not however an accurate representation of the GENERAL population of ecigarette users.

Most of the long-term nicotine vapers I have spoken with have stated that the overall level of harm reduction using e-cigarettes vs. using tobacco, is overwhelmingly positive in their personal experience. Saying that, I expect there to be a small number of cases where there are adverse effects from e-cigarette use.

I am grateful that we are learning more about what can happen, and for people courageous enough to share their experiences good and bad. Hopefully this will lead to a better understanding of the symptoms to look out for in case someone is that 1/1000, or whatever the odds are, that have these health problems, and give a better picture of how effective a NRT therapy nicotine vaping is vs. the alternatives currently available.

This will only work if the accounts are accurate of course. I see the trend of claiming nicotine vaping related illnesses is on the rise. Soon it will explode. Getting factual accounts is going to be nigh impossible now. What a sad state this all is.

This not to discount the accounts I've seen posted here so far. These stories have the ring of truth to my no B.S. detector. It's not foolproof by any means.

As always IMO

 

[Jman8]

Hey guys, I have been a member for a long time. I have bought tons of mods and juices over the years, but in terms of juices I have mostly used 2-3 of them outside of testing a new bottle occasionally. I don't use anything black market, even though you prob could consider all vaping products black market without regulation.

I got sick about 18 months ago and the doc's had no idea why. I was otherwise completely healthly, and suddenly unable to get up the stairs or breathe. I was rapidly degrading and I was vaping throughout this entire period because it was not yet known this was the cause.

I went back to smoking and that helped get better but it didn't fix the damage. I now need to take breo inhalers regularly otherwise I basically start to regress. I am still in treatment.

Bottom line, I use to be the most hardcore supporter and write anything down as big tobacco propaganda that was negative to vaping. This is NOT just THC related, as I meet someone else recently who had to go back to smoking because vaping kept putting him in the hospital.

All good up to this point. Don't deserve anyone bashing you for this.

The only reason I reactivated here, was hopefully to get the word out that this can be harmful and if your having trouble breathing, STOP VAPING.

IMO, you deserve to be bashed for this.

Water can be harmful. I expect to be bashed by people if I say (in all caps) STOP DRINKING WATER.

 

[Jman8]

I'll also note that I did read every post in the thread before I posted.

 

[Jman8]

I'm also going to add what I read in another post on this thread which is prior to vaping, I would get ill (bad cold) at least 3 times annually. Even when I was not smoking (one time had quit for 8 years). Every year, at least 3 times ill each year. Since vaping, I average less than 1 illness a year. I honestly attribute it to inhaling PG, but could be mistaken. And yet, I'm almost antithesis of your message. I actually do kinda sorta believe people should be vaping, if they want to experience less illness from colds/flus. I'm guessing my message would go over real well in today's climate.

I'll also note that the last time I was a non-smoker (having gone cold turkey, and stopping for more than a year), I got really really bad migraines. Like 15 out of 30 days in a month, I was down for the count. Took up smoking again, and magically the headaches went down to around 3 a month. About a year later I heard about eCigs, and the rest is history. I currently get migraine type headaches about once every 3 months.

I definitely don't think of vaping as harmless, but do think of it as way better, for me, than what my non-smoking self was experiencing.

 

[vaperXant]

Chronic cases are not caused by one thing alone and are often seen as related to genetics.. and acute cases can usually be pointed to a either a recent change or exposure to chemicals, drugs or parasites. ( recent change such as, did you change gear prior to developing symptoms, new juice company or new flavors that perhaps caused an acute inflammatory response)

I don't think you can say "vaping" as a whole caused this, although it may be contributory to worsening symptoms. Acute eosinophilic pneumonia doesn't come on slowly.. and chronic eosinphilic pneumonia usually has more than one cause, a perfect storm of causes if you will..

Of course once you have chronic eosinophilic pneumonia you can't be vaping, whether caused by vaping or not, sucking anything into your lungs, even bothersome dust, can cause you to exacerbate and go through it all over again..

After vaping for 5 years did you say to no ill affect, then getting ill with a chronic disease doesn't mean vaping is the definite culprit, actually, I'd say is less likely to be the culprit since it didn't occur immediately after starting to vape - that's when allergic reactions and acute responses are seen..

If it was just me I'd agree, but there are dozens of similar cases that just my doctor is working with across the country so that traditional line of thought starts to break down, and they aren't yet sure if it's something related to specific populations with long term vaping exposure, or if it's related to contaminates. If you read back I have posted a lot about this, also it was not sudden. It happened slowly but suddenly got really bad at one point.

Im not sure why some people here are so convinced vaping is safe in the first place. I suggest you research the history of smoking tobacco, which for literally hundreds of years was considered to be completely safe. Even after medical studies became modern, it still was not until the 50-60 that the "smoking scare" happened and declines in smoking populations did not happen until the 80s.

It's very likely that there are many things we still don't know about smoking that are either just starting to appear, or might not until people hit the 20-30 year mark of vaping. Even with smoking, not everyone gets cancer, some people smoke their entire lives and never get sick while others can after just a few years.

Here is the history if your interested - The history of the discovery of the cigarette–lung cancer link: evidentiary traditions, corporate denial, global toll

 

[vaperXant]

You say yourself they don’t know what causes it. You’re right you don’t, sorry this happened to you but the cause isn’t known so leave it at that instead of demonizing vaping. This isn’t an epidemic in the community or we would know about it here so I seriously doubt vaping is the cause.

Im not demonizing vaping, my wife still vapes but my doctor is part of a group of docs across the country investigating eosinophilic pneumonia in vapers, and it's something that is happening. They don't know exactly why yet, but it's def a problem that should be discussed. If you actually read my posts you would know that I support vaping but it shouldn't be talked about as a risk-free solution anymore, at one point I believed it was myself.

I have already explained my viewpoint on this that two specific issues are occuring here, one with THC and one with non-THC cases, both with different types of pneumonia occurring

 

[vaperXant]

Chronic cases are not caused by one thing alone and are often seen as related to genetics.. and acute cases can usually be pointed to a either a recent change or exposure to chemicals, drugs or parasites. ( recent change such as, did you change gear prior to developing symptoms, new juice company or new flavors that perhaps caused an acute inflammatory response)

I don't think you can say "vaping" as a whole caused this, although it may be contributory to worsening symptoms. Acute eosinophilic pneumonia doesn't come on slowly.. and chronic eosinphilic pneumonia usually has more than one cause, a perfect storm of causes if you will..

Of course once you have chronic eosinophilic pneumonia you can't be vaping, whether caused by vaping or not, sucking anything into your lungs, even bothersome dust, can cause you to exacerbate and go through it all over again..

After vaping for 5 years did you say to no ill affect, then getting ill with a chronic disease doesn't mean vaping is the definite culprit, actually, I'd say is less likely to be the culprit since it didn't occur immediately after starting to vape - that's when allergic reactions and acute responses are seen..

Im not sure where you got this, Eosinophilic Pneumonia has no clear factors that cause it. It's very rare, and there is not really even good treatment options at the moment. The doctor I am working with specializes in it and has dealt with hundreds of cases over the years, and it's of his opinion and other regional specialists that the recent uptick in cases, which just happen to nearly all be vapors, is more then likely related to VAPING.

It's really not that hard of a thing to explain, but I feel like this is the 10 peudo-doctor poster who has tried to know better then a leading specialist group of doctors on this matter, who have no funding or conflicts of interests. I didn't get contacted by this doctor in relation to vaping, He was the best in my area when I was basically dying and they couldn't figure out why. It just happened at the time, months ago, that he was already working on vaping related lung injuries that were causing EO.

As for changes in habits, I posted my juices and a timeline back on page 2 or 3.

 

[vaperXant]

All good up to this point. Don't deserve anyone bashing you for this.



IMO, you deserve to be bashed for this.

Water can be harmful. I expect to be bashed by people if I say (in all caps) STOP DRINKING WATER.

Im not really sure why I should be bashed for this, some of you are really nuts considering I have been getting PMs from people who are afraid to even post that they had similar experiences because of people like you. There is nothing wrong with sharing what happened to me, and giving people a warning that if I personally would have followed, I would have NEVER got as sick as I did.

There was a certain point where I had a feeling that vaping was starting to make me feel sick, but I had this mindset that it was completely safe so I ignored it. Bad mistake, a few months later I was in the ER with a pretty much deadly O2 level. I do believe if I followed the advise above, and stopped when I started to feel shortness of breathe I would have been fine. To me, it's pretty clear what happened here. I gradually got sicker until the point of EO, I continued to vape because we as a community enforced it as being the risk free smoking solution and I bought into that, and I continued to get worse. After working with a specialist, and hearing first hand about there other cases of EO across the country in vaping related incidents BEFORE the THC stuff hit the news by months, for a while i continued to vape / stay sicl, then I decided to STOP vaping and go back to smoking. I started to get BETTER.

I find it incredibly ignorant that some people here find the possibly that vaping can cause issues, and even try to minimize the issue by saying "o well that might be a juice or gear". In the end, it's all vaping and that should concern you that the industry is such a mess that deadly contaminants are entering the supply chain.

There was a time in history that people thought the same about smoking cigarettes, and look how that turned out. That doesn't mean people are going to get lung cancer from cigs, or even that most people could see bad effects, (like how not all people get lung cancer from extended periods of smoking) but there is def some evidence at this point that long term exposure to vaping may cause issues and that certain juices or gear could be producing unexpected long term effects. To talk about how vaping healed your colds and migraines and everyone should do that to get rid of colds, migraines, etc is even more ignorant. No one knows the long term effects of vaping and they could very well be harmful. (Either for everyone in certain conditions or for select populations)

 

[Jebbn]

hmm, interesting!

appeals to authority, ad hominem attacks, questioning other posters intelligence. Starting to look a bit "concern troll'ish"

Is there a link to the study that these "group of docs across the country investigating eosinophilic pneumonia in vapers" are a part of?

 

[vaperXant]

hmm, interesting!

appeals to authority, ad hominem attacks, questioning other posters intelligence. Starting to look a bit "concern troll'ish"

Is there a link to the study that these "group of docs across the country investigating eosinophilic pneumonia in vapers" are a part of?

I didn't start this in declaring I should be attacked for statements, but I will end it here. As for what they are working on in relation to vaping, No, They are working on some papers i believe but I wasn't really privy to what they were, besides consenting to allow some of my PII information. There are already some medical papers coming out about this, and I posted some in the thread. You should look how long I have been a member in this forum and my past posting history before saying it's trollish, which again is much much longer than many of the posters here including yourself.

Coming into a large, generally friendly thread and declaring someone should be bashed for posting a very specific, preventive health warning related to their own negative experience is hostile, trollish and it expects a loaded response, get real.

Replying to that loaded response with another hostile message, implying a member even more senior then yourself is a troll or "trollish", is pretty much trolling as well...

At this point it's prob best to close this, as it seems the actual trolls aka you guys are here in strength. It was nice while it lasted.

 

[Jebbn]

I didn't start this in declaring I should be attacked for statements, but I will end it here. As for what they are working on in relation to vaping, No, They are working on some papers i believe but I wasn't really privy to what they were, besides consenting to allow some of my PII information. There are already some medical papers coming out about this, and I posted some in the thread. You should look how long I have been a member in this forum and my past posting history before saying it's trollish, which again is much much longer than many of the posters here including yourself.

Coming into a large, generally friendly thread and declaring someone should be bashed for posting a very specific, preventive health warning related to their own negative experience is hostile, trollish and it expects a loaded response, get real.

Replying to that loaded response with another hostile message, implying a member even more senior then yourself is a troll or "trollish", is pretty much trolling as well...

At this point it's prob best to close this, as it seems the actual trolls aka you guys are here in strength. It was nice while it lasted.

I was referring to the whole thread, not just your posts.

Seemed like it could be an informative thread.
Somehow it lost any civility through posters not liking to be challenged, on either side.

 

[Opinionated]

If it was just me I'd agree, but there are dozens of similar cases that just my doctor is working with across the country so that traditional line of thought starts to break down, and they aren't yet sure if it's something related to specific populations with long term vaping exposure, or if it's related to contaminates. If you read back I have posted a lot about this, also it was not sudden. It happened slowly but suddenly got really bad at one point.

Im not sure why some people here are so convinced vaping is safe in the first place. I suggest you research the history of smoking tobacco, which for literally hundreds of years was considered to be completely safe. Even after medical studies became modern, it still was not until the 50-60 that the "smoking scare" happened and declines in smoking populations did not happen until the 80s.

It's very likely that there are many things we still don't know about smoking that are either just starting to appear, or might not until people hit the 20-30 year mark of vaping. Even with smoking, not everyone gets cancer, some people smoke their entire lives and never get sick while others can after just a few years.

Here is the history if your interested - The history of the discovery of the cigarette–lung cancer link: evidentiary traditions, corporate denial, global toll

Yet with your disease there are people who got it long before vaping was even a thought..

So working with "dozens all over the country" is meaningless without direct knowledge that vaping causes it, and with unrelated to vaping cases all over the world.

I'm sure since some people get your disease, that some vapers now that vaping is popular will also get it. Law of averages and all that. That doesn't mean vaping is causal in any way.

As far as thinking vaping is safe. It IS safe, relative to smoking. It is NOT safe, relative to not doing anything - and no vaper has ever claimed 100% safety.

What we aren't doing is to be willing to blame everything that occurs on vaping when no causal relationship can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

A disease where exact cause is yet to be determined which existed well prior to vaping - and well outside the vaping community - is not a good candidate to blame on vaping EXCEPT to an anti-vaper.

I'm a person that prefers fact to supposition - this isn't a guessing game.

If x ingredient is found to be causal to an issue, the vaping industry can change x thing. Guessing games are not at all helpful, but are instead a hindrance; let's work on fact alone, and avoid making sweeping statements as if we have certain knowledge where there is none.

 

[Tabac man]

I didn't start this in declaring I should be attacked for statements, but I will end it here. As for what they are working on in relation to vaping, No, They are working on some papers i believe but I wasn't really privy to what they were, besides consenting to allow some of my PII information. There are already some medical papers coming out about this, and I posted some in the thread. You should look how long I have been a member in this forum and my past posting history before saying it's trollish, which again is much much longer than many of the posters here including yourself.

Coming into a large, generally friendly thread and declaring someone should be bashed for posting a very specific, preventive health warning related to their own negative experience is hostile, trollish and it expects a loaded response, get real.

Replying to that loaded response with another hostile message, implying a member even more senior then yourself is a troll or "trollish", is pretty much trolling as well...

At this point it's prob best to close this, as it seems the actual trolls aka you guys are here in strength. It was nice while it lasted.

Your last few posts have been on the button. Remember we are all ex smokers and smokers ignored the potential dangers of smoking for years. It's only natural they would ignore the potential dangers off vaping. Share your experience, don't try to convince anyone. It's pointless.

 

[mel_vin]

I dont think the individual should be bashed. We all knew smoking was bad for us, yet we continued to light up. Vaping is no free lunch here either. I dont think this person should be discredited as long as there is no hidden agenda to it, which from what I remember would happen here all these new registrations would happen and people would post doom and gloom stuff on these boards, which did nothing but piss people off.

Im not sure if I can say that vaping is "safe" cause what exactly does that mean? I can say from vaping Ive had some wheezing events, heart palpitations, dizziness. Once I found what worked for me most of that stuff went away. Wheezing would still happen every now and then, and usually when I chain vaped. A cough / clear of the throat and it would usually disapear.

But I often wondered about pnemonia and vaping, especially with the cloud chasers with the ammount of vape they inhale/exhale... that just seems like an awful lot of substance to come in / out of a lung. A cigarette drag would not look like that. Hence why I always kept my setups basic as possible, my juice flavoring nothing fancy or exotic and had to be clear in color (apple is my go to flavor). Also in terms of consumption, I would vape I guess 5mls a day on a heavy day, but I think that depends alot on the type of setup you have as some are less "fuel efficient" it seems. Im also not sure about these high wattage sub omhs stuff again seem targeted giving you the biggest cloud. All I ever wanted was decent throat hit to make this feel like Im having a smoke. These are all important factors to really tell is this really harm reduction, or are we causing new harms or possibly expiditing some other ones?

 

[mel_vin]

Im going on full day 2 of no vapping (I took my last drag at around 2pm EST on Monday). Its been...rough. crappy sleep last night. At this point I am challenging myself to see how far I can go with this. Ive always said I wanted to stop or at the very least cut down on it. Be an after dinner/ weekend vaper.

 

[puffon]

Given your issue with vaping, why is your wife still vaping?
Is she part of the study?

 

[Vapntime]

Given your issue with vaping, why is your wife still vaping?
Is she part of the study?

Probably because she is addicted...

 

[Jebbn]

Im going on full day 2 of no vapping (I took my last drag at around 2pm EST on Monday). Its been...rough. crappy sleep last night. At this point I am challenging myself to see how far I can go with this. Ive always said I wanted to stop or at the very least cut down on it. Be an after dinner/ weekend vaper.

I take 2 days vape/nic free every 10 to 14 days. I dont find it to be a struggle at all, but Im quite used to it now. Its just part of my vape journey.
Ive taken about four one week to two week nic free breaks just to see what happens.
I find that around 5-7 days stuff starts getting weird for me. Uncomfortable.
Generally when I come back from a nic free period I come back to reduced nicotine mg's. If I was using 12mg before the break I return at 9mg or 8mg and it hits quite hard. Even 6mg hit kinda hard after 10days nic free coming off 15mg.
Im down around 2mg now and have gone down to 1.5mg but at this stage I find 2.5mg to be a better dose. Maybe after another extended break from nic I might be more comfortable with 1.5mg or 2mg.
I only mention this so that if you do decide to pick up the vape in the near future a much reduced dosage of nic might do the same job as your previous level. You could then taper off from a lower mg.

 

[Zbeast08]

This is my first post in quite a long time but this caught my attention and wanted to wish you a full recovery!! I have been vaping for several years and have been through thousands of dollars of mods, juices, etc. and havent experienced these symptoms as of yet. I have long enjoyed the whole vaping experience as a hobby as well as a way to stay away from cigs. Again, wising you the best!

 

[puffon]

Probably because she is addicted...

If it was my wife I'd encourage her to quit vaping and use the other NRTs the OP is using.
Maybe the condition is so rare he's not worried about his wife...?