Very disappointed with sub ohm vaping!
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I noticed but wasn't going to say anything. You don't have to explain to me. I'm that guy rocking 50mg/ml @ 80 watts doing deep lung hits.
But he doesn't have to do it my way, either.
Hopefully he can fine tune that sub tank and kayfun and takes advantage of the carto tank offer. If so, vape heaven might be just around the corner.
Tapatyped
The correct rationale behind sub-ohming should never be about how low you can go but about building your coils to get maximum surface area contact with your e-juice. The general idea is that the faster your rate of vapour production, the more your flavour per pull. More VG and more airflow translate this into more cloud.
Low ohms are the natural consequences of using thicker wire with more surface area per inch, and multiplying your number of coils - Which effectively lowers your resistance by the same multiples. At lower wattages, parallel coils help with reducing ramp up time, but that again lowers resistance. Sub-ohm builds would therefore be the inevitable by-product of building "larger" coils. The numbers are there really so we know where we stand with regards to using our equipment safely.
For these reasons, I personally consider sub-ohm tanks to be not a very clever idea to begin with. By the nature of their designs, they do not cater for huge coil builds. If you are buying pre-made coils, it totally defeats the need for a sub-ohm device. So in response to the thread, I just want to say that for a satusfying sub-ohm experience, you have to use rebuildables, preferably a RDA.
Low ohms are the natural consequences of using thicker wire with more surface area per inch, and multiplying your number of coils - Which effectively lowers your resistance by the same multiples. At lower wattages, parallel coils help with reducing ramp up time, but that again lowers resistance. Sub-ohm builds would therefore be the inevitable by-product of building "larger" coils. The numbers are there really so we know where we stand with regards to using our equipment safely.
For these reasons, I personally consider sub-ohm tanks to be not a very clever idea to begin with. By the nature of their designs, they do not cater for huge coil builds. If you are buying pre-made coils, it totally defeats the need for a sub-ohm device. So in response to the thread, I just want to say that for a satusfying sub-ohm experience, you have to use rebuildables, preferably a RDA.
I built my first coils today and used them in a Kanger mini.
Whilst I hate the Kanger mini for a long list of reasons, I can certainly understand why people build their own coils with a Japanese cotton wick. I think this is way superior in taste to OEM atomizers, and extremely versatile too.
I also found a way around my lung hitting paranoia. Sort of found a way to "con" my own self.
I attached a 6" medical hose to the mouth piece of the Kanger, and took a deep breath. Whilst highly ridiculous and impractical aesthetically, the fact that my face and front teeth are distanced from any eventual loud Pops...did work to subside my fears.
I made a few coils in the 1.6~1.8 range, and used them on 5~5.5 volts with my 22 mg juice. Very nice throat hit.
As for making coils, there are so many educational videos on you tube, that I can well understand that a newbie who has never tried to make coils, may feel intimidated. The reasoning behind this, is that if so many videos exist on how to make coils...it must be difficult!!
I found it to be very easy using a drill bit, and fashioning the coils with my fingers.
I also tried a threaded bolt and it did not work for me.
Then I tried the Gizmo, which makes a nice tightly-touching coil. Actually, I hacked the Gizmo with a thumb screw and wing nut, and it suddenly dawned on me that a drill bit was just as easy to use and requires no hacks. I then laughed and thought "What in the hell am i doing here with a hacked Gizmo?"
Anyway, today was a quantum leap in my vaping experience, and thanks to all you, and happy Easter.
Whilst I hate the Kanger mini for a long list of reasons, I can certainly understand why people build their own coils with a Japanese cotton wick. I think this is way superior in taste to OEM atomizers, and extremely versatile too.
I also found a way around my lung hitting paranoia. Sort of found a way to "con" my own self.
I attached a 6" medical hose to the mouth piece of the Kanger, and took a deep breath. Whilst highly ridiculous and impractical aesthetically, the fact that my face and front teeth are distanced from any eventual loud Pops...did work to subside my fears.
I made a few coils in the 1.6~1.8 range, and used them on 5~5.5 volts with my 22 mg juice. Very nice throat hit.
As for making coils, there are so many educational videos on you tube, that I can well understand that a newbie who has never tried to make coils, may feel intimidated. The reasoning behind this, is that if so many videos exist on how to make coils...it must be difficult!!
I found it to be very easy using a drill bit, and fashioning the coils with my fingers.
I also tried a threaded bolt and it did not work for me.
Then I tried the Gizmo, which makes a nice tightly-touching coil. Actually, I hacked the Gizmo with a thumb screw and wing nut, and it suddenly dawned on me that a drill bit was just as easy to use and requires no hacks. I then laughed and thought "What in the hell am i doing here with a hacked Gizmo?"
Anyway, today was a quantum leap in my vaping experience, and thanks to all you, and happy Easter.
I agree. I too was not too happy with sub ohm. I personally don't like a warm vape and getting major clouds is not a priority. I really like the Nautilus Mini (don't laugh) but felt I could get more flavour with something else, like the Kanger Mini or Nano. Vape with those two is just too warm not what I am looking for. So, I mostly use my Nautilus and once in a while switch over to them. I will try to build when I get over my paranoia of not doing it right. I smoked for 35 years and am only vaping since July of last year. Alot more to learn. But back to the topic I think the Nautilus Mini would be a good choice for you.
I can try the nautilus mini. I'm prepared to try anything new. The kanger mini has one colossal defect in my opinion. The metal ring to adjust the air is relatively thin and stiff, and most of the time I end up unscrewing the whole unit off the 510 fitting, instead of turning the air adjustment ring. Secondly it offers way too much airflow even on one hole, and works badly without any hole open. There has been so much hype over these kangers, that it was hard not to purchase one. I noticed that all the air holes were the same size. This does not make sense, since human lung capacity is more or less the same, and rate of airflow into the lungs is also limited and does not vary that much. I am trying to say that the diameter of the hole should be reduced progressively from 1 hole down to zero, instead of having one two or three similar holes of the same aperture.
For tank systems RBA style I think the updated goblin ud is the best ive tryed for performance. If you don't rebuild or like to wrap coils. You can buy a lot of pre built coils for cheap from alot of places. You can find a coil and airflow position to satisfy your needs. The ability to customize your vape to your style and preferences is the way to go hands down. I think the goblin is better than any RBA. I use it in the car or work. Other than that you can find me dripping . I love my RDA's. You can't mimic the experience IMO of a fat pull off a dripper built just right.
. I love my RDA's. You can't mimic the experience IMO of a fat pull off a dripper built just right.
Couple things I noticed about the Kanger Subtank Mini.
One is that the Air Flow ring does get Easier to rotate after a little bit of time. Fresh out of the Box, it was Very Difficult to spin. Especially if I had any e-Liquid on my Fingers. But it has gotten better with time.
Also, the Drip Tip that you use Can/Will effect air flow. I like Whistle type tips. And they tend to have a Smaller air opening which Restricts the air flow.
The Last thing is if I have a piece of Hardware that doesn't work well, I become Fearless at Modifying it. Kinda the "Can't Break the Broken" mindset.
I'm OK with 1 Hole and a more Restrictive Drip Tip. But if I wasn't, and wanted More air Restriction, I would jam some Cotton into the Air Chamber. And if it Didn't work, or I Hosed it up, no big deal. Because I wasn't going to use it was is anyway.
I started vaping ages ago back in 2007 or thereabouts.
The only ecigs available then were either 510 or older type 801 atomizers.
We then bought the chucks and vaped on 6 volts with 5 ohm atomizers for a while. (Custom made Vivi Nova 5 ohm coils)
This "while" lasted for years, and I am a little "out of the loop".
I recently bought an IPV mini 70 watts with a few subohm tanks (Kanger, Artic, Herakles etc, 0.5~1.2 OHMS).
The internet is riddled with videos of guys blowing huge clouds of vapor with these sub ohm systems. This intrigued me.
What they do not tell you, is that it is impossible to take a mouth to lung puff, because these tanks afford too much airflow.
Personally, I feel very uneasy breathing anything directly into my lungs. My older 801 and 510 atomizers sometimes spurted out liquid.
I would like your thoughts on this one?
I find that a mouth puff gives you more taste. It's sort of wasted if it goes directly into the lungs.
Another thing I discovered is that these sub-ohm tanks vape much hotter than my previous e cigs. I cannot get a cool/cold vape no matter what wattage I use.
Thirdly, The kanger sub ohm mini coil crackles loudly, sort of Pops loudly from time to time. This greatly annoys me and adds to my lung inhale paranoia.
I'm a little stuck at the moment, and do not know what ecig/tank/coil system to transition to.
I'm like you and use three things: a Nautilus tank with a DNA40 and temp control coils (give you the subohm experience without the tons of airflow, plus temp control so that your cotton doesn't burn if you go dry, resulting in a more satisfying vape at low wattage)
A Kayfun Lite Plus (now the 4 is out, it's dirt cheap at 70 bucks an original). With a restricted airflow is a complete delight to build and vape
A Vertex V2 rebuildable atty or a Tugboat V2 rebuildable atty: with one coil at 1 ohm you'll get loads of vapor and flavor, and it's so easy to rebuild.
Mouth to lung hitters are forgotten these days. It's nice in a way because we don't need such powerful equipment that now it's mostly going on sale!
Have you ever checked out the E-Grips with the rba? Really easy coil and wick changes. Hits like a champ too!
I did score a big daddy mod just waiting on batteries.
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Take a step back and think about this question for a few minutes before you answer it.....
What exactly are you wanting from your tank?
It may seem like a silly question, but really think about what is most important to you. Do you want to blow the biggest clouds possible? Get the best flavor possible? Do you want to lung hit or mouth to lung hit? Do you want a tight draw or a lot of air? Do you want to rebuild your coils or just use store bought ones? Do you want a cooler vape or a warmer vape? Do you want a small tank or a large one?
Think about all of the different aspects, all of the different options, and think really hard about what you're actually wanting.
Subohming is really about clouds, but has a lot of other aspects, some of which you clearly do not like. It may be that the best setup for what you want simply isn't a subohm, and that's just fine. I know that right now it seems that everyone LOVES to subohm so it may feel like you should too, but the truth is everyone doesn't love it and it might not be right for you. Rather than listening to everyone tell you what works for them, think about what you really want. Then come here and explain precisely what you're looking for, every aspect about the type of vape you're looking for, and then we'll see if we can find a setup that fills those needs the best, rather than trying to shoehorn you in to what someone else likes or wants.
And for the record, you don't have to subohm or even use a subohm tank to get nice sized clouds. You won't be winning any cloud blowing competitions at vape meets, but you would be very surprised what you can do with a simple Nautilus and a 1.8ohm coil.
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I love this post!
And I think he clearly outlined what he wants. Just didn't do it point by point in a single post.
Hence why I made the suggestions I gave previously.
A bit pricey initially, but I think will put this vaper right to where he's comfortable with very little investment in the long haul.
Tapatyped
hb by hcigar = dna 40 device
hana modz = dna 40 device
pair this up with the gimlet subohm tank for a cool vape
if you want cool vapes on other devices... you need to vape it at 20-30 watts... airflow wide open... try the freemax starre (50-100w it is warm to very warm vape, from 20-30 is cool vape, 30-50 still a cool vape but not as cool as 20-30)
hana modz = dna 40 device
pair this up with the gimlet subohm tank for a cool vape
if you want cool vapes on other devices... you need to vape it at 20-30 watts... airflow wide open... try the freemax starre (50-100w it is warm to very warm vape, from 20-30 is cool vape, 30-50 still a cool vape but not as cool as 20-30)
I've moved into the sub-ohm realm very gradually, off and on. I started a year and a half ago by converting all my bottom-feeders (REOs, Vapage XLs, Phids) from old-school 510/306 atties to small-chamber RDAs (converted to bottom-fed by micro-bit dremel drilling juice channels through the silicon insulators that surround the positive post inside their 510 connectors). These were mostly inexpensive fasttech clones: KTS YK1s (Cyclone clones) and A6 Minis. Using horizontal coils (micro or spaced) with cotton or rayon wicks was a major change and a significant upgrade, but I was still building at 1.0-1.5 ohms.
When I added a couple of blem REOs that came with sub-ohm kits already installed (heavier-duty firing contacts and battery springs), I began moving under the 1.0 ohm boundary, heading down to 0.7-0.9 ohm builds. Despite owning numerous mechanical mods, I'd never felt safe vaping unregulated devices at sub-ohm resistances. Yes, I had a large stock of Kanger clearos and various tanks, including three PMMA Kayfun Lites, but they were mostly tighter draw devices. Though not sub-ohm, the Aspire Nautilus that appeared in the spring of 2014 was my first tank with a more "open" draw (although that tank wouldn't be considered "airy" today). As a mouth-to-lung flavor vapor, every time I tried a direct lung inhale, I immediately regretted doing so. 40 years of smoking cigarettes made that very unpleasant. Meanwhile, sub-ohm cloud-chasing was spreading like wildfire on YouTube, fueled largely by younger, "sport" vapers.
When the higher-wattage regulated boxes started to proliferate in the fall of 2014, a mania in the marketplace spurred by the success of the iStick 20W, I joined that stampede and ended up with a bunch of regulated mods that allow vaping at very low resistances, from 0.4 down to 0.2 ohms---two iStick 30Ws and an iStick 50W, two Cloupor Mini 30Ws, an iPV Mini 30W, and two iPV Mini 70W boxes. That opened the flood gates to sub-ohming for me. I already owned a couple deep-well drippers---a Magma and Origen---to which I added others, such as a Derringer and Dark Horse RDA. Over the past six months, I acquired numerous tanks, again, all clones---two Aspire Atlantis tanks, a Kanger Subtank Mini and Nano, as well as some RTAs---Erlkonigins, Orchids, and Taifuns.
The key for me has been lower nicotine. I vaped quite happily at 24mg nic for three years before dropping to 18mg at the beginning of 2014. Over the past year, however, my nic levels have plummeted. I now vape mostly 3-6mg. Why? Well, although a Kanger EVOD-style clearo with a rebuilt 1.5 ohm coil and cotton/rayon wick powered by a Vision Spinner still provides a nice vape, the intensity of the experience provided by an RTA/RDA with a 0.5-0.7 ohm coil (whether a factory head or a custom build) at 25-30 watts is simply in a different league altogether. Even as a mouth-to-lung vaper, I find that minimal nicotine is necessary for this higher-powered hardware. Fortunately, I DIY all my own juices these days. Looks like the five liters of 100mg/ml liquid nic in my freezer might last much longer than I assumed.
I still find direct-lung inhaling to be less flavorful, less comfortable, and less enjoyable than mouth-to-lung, but who knows? Perhaps that will change for me over time. Same with sub-ohming. I haven't gone below 0.5 ohms yet, but with so much dramatic change afoot in the vaping marketplace, I wouldn't rule out the possibility.
When I added a couple of blem REOs that came with sub-ohm kits already installed (heavier-duty firing contacts and battery springs), I began moving under the 1.0 ohm boundary, heading down to 0.7-0.9 ohm builds. Despite owning numerous mechanical mods, I'd never felt safe vaping unregulated devices at sub-ohm resistances. Yes, I had a large stock of Kanger clearos and various tanks, including three PMMA Kayfun Lites, but they were mostly tighter draw devices. Though not sub-ohm, the Aspire Nautilus that appeared in the spring of 2014 was my first tank with a more "open" draw (although that tank wouldn't be considered "airy" today). As a mouth-to-lung flavor vapor, every time I tried a direct lung inhale, I immediately regretted doing so. 40 years of smoking cigarettes made that very unpleasant. Meanwhile, sub-ohm cloud-chasing was spreading like wildfire on YouTube, fueled largely by younger, "sport" vapers.
When the higher-wattage regulated boxes started to proliferate in the fall of 2014, a mania in the marketplace spurred by the success of the iStick 20W, I joined that stampede and ended up with a bunch of regulated mods that allow vaping at very low resistances, from 0.4 down to 0.2 ohms---two iStick 30Ws and an iStick 50W, two Cloupor Mini 30Ws, an iPV Mini 30W, and two iPV Mini 70W boxes. That opened the flood gates to sub-ohming for me. I already owned a couple deep-well drippers---a Magma and Origen---to which I added others, such as a Derringer and Dark Horse RDA. Over the past six months, I acquired numerous tanks, again, all clones---two Aspire Atlantis tanks, a Kanger Subtank Mini and Nano, as well as some RTAs---Erlkonigins, Orchids, and Taifuns.
The key for me has been lower nicotine. I vaped quite happily at 24mg nic for three years before dropping to 18mg at the beginning of 2014. Over the past year, however, my nic levels have plummeted. I now vape mostly 3-6mg. Why? Well, although a Kanger EVOD-style clearo with a rebuilt 1.5 ohm coil and cotton/rayon wick powered by a Vision Spinner still provides a nice vape, the intensity of the experience provided by an RTA/RDA with a 0.5-0.7 ohm coil (whether a factory head or a custom build) at 25-30 watts is simply in a different league altogether. Even as a mouth-to-lung vaper, I find that minimal nicotine is necessary for this higher-powered hardware. Fortunately, I DIY all my own juices these days. Looks like the five liters of 100mg/ml liquid nic in my freezer might last much longer than I assumed.
I still find direct-lung inhaling to be less flavorful, less comfortable, and less enjoyable than mouth-to-lung, but who knows? Perhaps that will change for me over time. Same with sub-ohming. I haven't gone below 0.5 ohms yet, but with so much dramatic change afoot in the vaping marketplace, I wouldn't rule out the possibility.
What kind of watts and temp are you using on those Ni200 Nautilus coils? I have two Nautilus tanks sitting in my junk bucket and perhaps I can make use of them again.
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I can understand why the OP is NOT interested in straight lung hits. Most of us start vaping in order to get off cigarettes ... Do you know anyone that continually did lung hits while they smoked cigarettes? Of course not.
So, why do lung hits while vaping?
To the OP .... get yourself a good atomizer that has an adjustable airflow. Set the airflow so you get about the same restriction as you had while smoking cigarettes. Use a coil in the 1.5 to 2.0 ohm range. Feed the coil around 10 watts of power (make adjustments on power until your happy with the flavor).
Start with a juice that's around 50% PG and 50% VG. This will give you a good combination of flavor and vapor. Select a Nic level that satisfies you nicotine addiction.
Simple as that
So, why do lung hits while vaping?
To the OP .... get yourself a good atomizer that has an adjustable airflow. Set the airflow so you get about the same restriction as you had while smoking cigarettes. Use a coil in the 1.5 to 2.0 ohm range. Feed the coil around 10 watts of power (make adjustments on power until your happy with the flavor).
Start with a juice that's around 50% PG and 50% VG. This will give you a good combination of flavor and vapor. Select a Nic level that satisfies you nicotine addiction.
Simple as that
Ok I have found my sweet spot.
Both on the Kanger mini and the larger Kanger (RDA).
About 1.4 ohms and 4.5~5 volts. I do not know how many watts that is but I can imagine around 12 at least. The taste is fantastic. Low vapor, which is perfect for me, a colossal throat hit. The coil i made is 0.1160 inches in diameter, 6 turns with 29 awg. Some spacing is present in the coil to allow for 100% VG.
I'm using a variable DC power supply, which enables me to control the volts and amps, but not the watts. Since you guys think, sleep, eat, and s**t watts, this is a bit of a contradiction.
I do find the larger Kanger subtank much harder to build than the mini because the screw heads on the deck are relatively small and it's very hard to use any wire thicker than 29.
The kanger mini has sidewalls next to the screws so the Kanthal gets stuck easily. So this is is really easy to fit a coil in rapidly.
On the other hand I have difficulty adjusting airflow on the mini because the air ring that you turn is so thin. By contrast the larger kangers air wheel is fantastic, and fine tunes much better as well.
Did try a Kayfun clone V2, and whilst the build is easy I cannot get used to the bottom screw for filling and evacuating liquid.
I tried a Heracles and Artic tank and they are already in the trash.
One thing is quite clear, the RDA systems are so superior to normal atomizers.
I have been able to take large lung hits, with my tongue rolled backwards (to prevent any eventual volcanic eruptions of hot liquid), however I cannot say a lung hit tastes better to me.
Maybe I am missing some taste buds in the lungs? Better go and see a pulmonologist and get some taste bud implants!!
Both on the Kanger mini and the larger Kanger (RDA).
About 1.4 ohms and 4.5~5 volts. I do not know how many watts that is but I can imagine around 12 at least. The taste is fantastic. Low vapor, which is perfect for me, a colossal throat hit. The coil i made is 0.1160 inches in diameter, 6 turns with 29 awg. Some spacing is present in the coil to allow for 100% VG.
I'm using a variable DC power supply, which enables me to control the volts and amps, but not the watts. Since you guys think, sleep, eat, and s**t watts, this is a bit of a contradiction.
I do find the larger Kanger subtank much harder to build than the mini because the screw heads on the deck are relatively small and it's very hard to use any wire thicker than 29.
The kanger mini has sidewalls next to the screws so the Kanthal gets stuck easily. So this is is really easy to fit a coil in rapidly.
On the other hand I have difficulty adjusting airflow on the mini because the air ring that you turn is so thin. By contrast the larger kangers air wheel is fantastic, and fine tunes much better as well.
Did try a Kayfun clone V2, and whilst the build is easy I cannot get used to the bottom screw for filling and evacuating liquid.
I tried a Heracles and Artic tank and they are already in the trash.
One thing is quite clear, the RDA systems are so superior to normal atomizers.
I have been able to take large lung hits, with my tongue rolled backwards (to prevent any eventual volcanic eruptions of hot liquid), however I cannot say a lung hit tastes better to me.
Maybe I am missing some taste buds in the lungs? Better go and see a pulmonologist and get some taste bud implants!!
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