VIR and other temp devices

[imeothanasis]

Seek, I saw Busardo's videos about SX mini because e-smokeguru told me that he made 2 more videos about this device.

Joule is watts per second. Its the power that a device produce per 1 second. Totally useless to vaping. No one bothers if his device produce 40 watts per sec or 20 watts per sec. The only that user needs to know to enjoy his vape, is the level of temperature, the constant vape and the constant flavor.

dna40 and SX mini have a huge problem that Busardo mention on his video but he missed the opportunity to comment on it. It was when he had burn taste on kayfun. This means that temperature control doesnt really work. What I mean? Please read below:

A temp control device has to keep temp at a specific level but it ALSO has to know when it has to stop to avoid burned juice and especially burned wick. A burned wick on a temp device is unacceptable. The wick has to stay clean in every setting of the temp, otherwise you vape the fumes of the wick and acrolein, formaldehyde, achetaldehyde etc.

Another reason for burn taste is nickel. See why: Lets say that you make a wire at 0,1 ohm resistance. Its a big one for nickel, yes? Ok, now imagine that you unscrew the cap to load a new battery or unscrew your atomizer for some reason (to adjust air on his kayfun for example). The resistance changed at about 0,05-0,1 ohm, because you didnt screw exactly the same way the cap or the atomizer, or your connections on wire got loosy or........ and of course threads get dirty over time. So this means that after a while you may vape with a 0,15-0,2ohm total resistance when the device recognized a 1 ohm resistance at the beginning. Can you imagine the huge difference?

So its not a problem of atomizers but a nickel problem. Thats why we need wires with big resistance like titanium. With a 1 ohm resistance on a titanium wire, if the resistance changes at 0,1ohm, nothing special will happen, because 0,1 ohm comparing to 1 ohm is very small, when 0,1 ohm comparing to 0,2 ohm is doubled!

Other very serious problems:

Try sx mini on its max temp or at least at 280 Celsius degrees that is the limit for VG. (devices with bigger limit are not serious). There you can check if the device can handle the wick and the juice, because in low temps all are going well but on higher temps the problems are visible

Also, you have to check devices in another way too. Put your device on the refrigerator and then vape it for 10 mins in your room. You have to have the same vape all the time on a device but I dont think you will have it. Why is this important? Lets say that you set up device on home and you want to vape it outside home (or the opposite) in Russia. Device will read a resistance at 20 celsius and when you vape it outside home the temp will be at -20. Same thing in Africa.
A serious temp device has to vape the same on any enviroment.

I think we have to hit the nail when we make devices and not just fancy screens if you agree.

One more thing. We DO want to know the right temp. Its not a matter of joy but a matter of health. If you enjoy or you get used to a higher temp than 280 Celsius degrees (and the device shows the wrong temp, lets say that is shows 240 Celsius degrees), that will produce a lot of unhealthy components, when you will THINK that you vape safely at 240 degrees.

So, enjoying just a temp, its not the right way for a serious temp device to work.

 

[Aal_]

Seek, I saw Busardo's videos about SX mini because e-smokeguru told me that he made 2 more videos about this device.

Joule is watts per second. Its the power that a device produce per 1 second. Totally useless to vaping. No one bothers if his device produce 40 watts per sec or 20 watts per sec. The only that user needs to know to enjoy his vape, is the level of temperature, the constant vape and the constant flavor.

dna40 and SX mini have a huge problem that Busardo mention on your video but he missed the opportunity to comment on it. It was when he had burn taste on kayfun. This means that temperature control doesnt really work. What I mean? Please read below:

A temp control device has to keep temp at a specific level but it ALSO has to know when it has to stop to avoid burned juice and especially burned wick. A burned wick on a temp device is unacceptable. The wick has to stay clean in every setting of the temp, otherwise you vape the fumes of the wick and acrolein, formaldehyde, achetaldehyde etc.

Another reason for burn taste is nickel. See why: Lets say that you make a wire at 0,1 ohm resistance. Its a big one for nickel, yes? Ok, now imagine that you unscrew the cap to load a new battery or unscrew your atomizer for some reason (to adjust air on his kayfun for example). The resistance changed at about 0,05-0,1 ohm, because you didnt screw exactly the same way the cap or the atomizer, or your connections on wire got loosy or........ and of course threads get dirty over time. So this means that after a while you may vape with a 0,15-0,2ohm total resistance when the device recognized a 1 ohm resistance at the beginning. Can you imagine the huge difference?

So its not a problem of atomizers but a nickel problem. Thats why we need wires with big resistance like titanium. With a 1 ohm resistance on a titanium wire, if the resistance changes at 0,1ohm, nothing special will happen, because 0,1 ohm comparing to 1 ohm is very small, when 0,1 ohm comparing to 0,2 ohm is doubled!

Other very serious problems:

Try sx mini on its max temp or at least at 280 Celsius degrees that is the limit for VG. (devices with bigger limit are not serious). There you can check if the device can handle the wick and the juice, because in low temps all are going well but on higher temps the problems are visible

Also, you have to check devices in another way too. Put your device on the refrigerator and then vape it for 10 mins in your room. You have to have the same vape all the time on a device but I dont think you will have it. Why is this important? Lets say that you set up device on home and you want to vape it outside home (or the opposite) in Russia. Device will read a resistance at 20 celsius and when you vape it outside home the temp will be at -20. Same thing in Africa.
A serious temp device has to vape the same on any enviroment.

I think we have to hit the nail when we make devices and not just fancy screens if you agree.

One more thing. We DO want to know the right temp. Its not a matter of joy but a matter of health. If you enjoy or you get used to a higher temp than 280 Celsius degrees (and the device shows the wrong temp, lets say that is shows 240 Celsius degrees), that will produce a lot of unhealthy components, when you will THINK that you vape safely at 240 degrees.

So, enjoying just a temp, its not the right way for a serious temp device to work.

I agree with imeo on everything he said. Too bad you are not offering VIR as a stand alone module

 

[soulseek]

Imeo I'm sure nickel doesn't help but doesn't the atomiser play a role as well? The kayfun has a spring that adds some resistance and made the DNA40 highly unreliable. Have you done any tests with non-GG atomisers on VIR? Do they work reliably?

 

[imeothanasis]

Yes, thats a big problem too Seek. I forgot that kayfun had a spring. The problem with springs is that they change their behavior if you unscrew even only one time the atomizer from the mod. And of course there is no spring that can handle current the right way. Thats why spring on Proteus doesnt really carry current. Proteus is spring loaded and current goes through its moving pin. And thats why I have said a lot of times that we have to avoid springs on electronics, especially on battery connection.

 

[imeothanasis]

I forgot to fully comment on your previous post Seek. I havent test any other atomizer with VIR but even the thing that VIR works only with titanium makes every atomizer way more reliable than any other temp device.

I didnt choose titanium for fun but for some reasons. Biocompatibility and big resistance were the 2 serious reasons.

There are a lot of thoughts inside VIR's construction. It doesnt simply keep temp in a level. That would be useless

 

[soulseek]

I got to test an SX mini m that a friend recently bought because I recommended it to him over any other box mod. Didn't get a lot of time with it to look at how good the temperature control is but damn than this large and heavy. It's not something I would like to carry around with me.

 

[imeothanasis]

yes, its heavy Seek. I manage to keep one in my hands. Its like it has rocks inside lol

Proteus on the other hand is too light. Its not an ego but it has nothing to do with any other electronic device. I paid attention on emptying all the unnecessary metal from all its metal parts.

An e-cig has to be strong but light for mouth, hand and pocket

 

[nikosh]

Agree Imeo, Nickel does looks like the wrong wire for temp controlled vaping. The extremely low resistances are just too sensitive. The smallest change in the chain of parts between the boards' output terminal and the coil causes problems in accurate temp readings. And nickel is a pain in the a*s to work with too.

Fortunately, the industry moves on quickly. And the innovation seems to come from Europe. Of course VIR from Greece and yesterday I vaped on a beta proto from Dicodes (Germany). Their temp protected board is rated at 40Watts and works with Nickel, Ti, G-plat, SS and their own wire specifically developed for this board. Switching back & forth between Nickel, Ti, SS and Kanthal (Kanthal without TP) worked flawless. I was impressed. Like their current Dani mods the electronics are very small too for use in tube mods. Scheduled for GA 1st half of May.

Great developments in the vaping industry and the good stuff does not come from China! As usual...

Dear FogNL
At the above post you are mentioning "Kanthal without TP". Can you please explain me what is this?

 

[67style]

temp "control" doesn't works with kanthal @nikosh

 

[imeothanasis]

Agree Imeo, Nickel does looks like the wrong wire for temp controlled vaping. The extremely low resistances are just too sensitive. The smallest change in the chain of parts between the boards' output terminal and the coil causes problems in accurate temp readings. And nickel is a pain in the a*s to work with too.

Fortunately, the industry moves on quickly. And the innovation seems to come from Europe. Of course VIR from Greece and yesterday I vaped on a beta proto from Dicodes (Germany). Their temp protected board is rated at 40Watts and works with Nickel, Ti, G-plat, SS and their own wire specifically developed for this board. Switching back & forth between Nickel, Ti, SS and Kanthal (Kanthal without TP) worked flawless. I was impressed. Like their current Dani mods the electronics are very small too for use in tube mods. Scheduled for GA 1st half of May.

Great developments in the vaping industry and the good stuff does not come from China! As usual...

Sorry that I didnt answer your post earlier Fog but you edited it later than I read it

Innovation comes from all places. Greece (Europe) with GG has the first place in mechs and atomizers, we know that. But innovation comes from all over the world, especially from USA. I was the first that thought and made temp control but evolv company also thought it by itself. Maybe evolv managed to do it because of the titanium that e-smokeguru sold in first place and dna people saw the change of resistance of titanium. But they still thought temp control all by themselfs. Thats innovation.

Maybe Dicodes made a nice electronic (who knows), but they didnt thought of anything if you agree. Dicodes read DNA thread and VIR thread and they simply made an electronic based on our thoughts. Because thats their work. They make electronics. They didnt do anything else than copying thoughts that read on VIR and DNA threads on ecf.

You said that nickel isnt the right wire for temp control and thats true. But then you said that dicodes works flawless with nickel. I see a conflict here

About wires that dicodes work: You must not work with any other wire than Titanium in temp control. Maybe with SS too but there is no reason. Wires exept titanium in temp control are unhealthy, so the options that dicodes gives are not really options.

As for the size. VIR is not simply small, its the smallest. I didnt want to make a small electronic but the smallest available. I am sure that VIR is way smaller even if I havent seen dicodes's electronic. And its not the screen that makes dicodes big. Its that they wouldnt care so much as I do to offer the best of the best in size.

And you told us the exact date of the availability of dicodes. Why? Its GG forum here if you remember buddy.


ps.... I know that you are honored that dicodes choose you for the tests but if I was you, I would support DNA and VIR than dicodes or SX or any other temp control device out there. But thats my humbe opinion only

 

[rockstarr]

No offense Imeo but isn't VIR irrelevant to the vaping community until the vaping community see"s something other than a video? How can it even be compared to DNA or SX? These devices are already out in the wild. Based on your word only or your few followers (that have never even used it)that have been waiting forever? And I and probably most of the vape community really don't care when you say you thought of it, I haven't read anywhere other than here that "Imeo invented temp control" wouldn't credit be given where credit is due somewhere other than your self claim? How do you know how long Evolve had been working on temp control? Do you know Brandon? And I can't believe it's now going on 4yrs buddy, and YOU still have NOTHING out in the wild? Not even ONE? Why not send one out to a reviewer of your choice so we can at least get an unbiased opinion of "how great it is"? We"d at least know it's a real thing. But alas it seems every time I come here it's 10 more days or 1 more month or blah blah blah, and I know, I know, your "hand checking each one individually and this takes time" but why even say it's coming out when in FACT it's OBVIOUSLY has not? It's my opinion at this point that your just simply buying yourself time with the community to keep the few that seem to be left here interested in a product that may or may not even exist. Good luck to you Imeo, waiting to see if VIR is real..

 

[soulseek]

The iPhone wasn't the first smartphone released to the market ...

 

[soulseek]

I'm not saying that I'm happy waiting for all these delays I'm just saying that there's always 2 sides to a coin.

Besides that, I'd rather wait a little longer for a decent device than one that's buggy (DNA40) and heavy/large enough to be mistaken for a weapon (SX).

And one thing you should not forget is we're all discussing this in THE GG FORUM. Imeo isn't suddenly appearing in the temperature forum trying to get people to buy any of his products. You're joining along in the discussion. If you don't agree with it you're happy to voice it. But you can also just not participate...

 

[imeothanasis]

rockstart my friend, your post is totally irrelevant with the subject

But I will answer your irrelevant questions:

"How can it even be compared to DNA or SX"

you saw on my videos that has more features. These features are on my first post here and they dont exist on any temp device: Proteus official | E-Cigarette Forum

"And I and probably most of the vape community really don't care when you say you thought of it"

Yes but I do care rock.

"How do you know how long Evolve had been working on temp control?"

Simply because evolv patented vw at December 2013, when my patent for temp control is 4 months after, that is April 2014. If evolv had thought of it earlier, they wouldnt patent vw but temp control

"And I can't believe it's now going on 4yrs buddy"

Yes, I am ashamed of that. I too cant believe it

"We"d at least know it's a real thing"

But it is rock. I made 2-3 videos about it

"It's my opinion at this point that your just simply buying yourself time with the community to keep the few that seem to be left here interested"

I dont try to buy anything rock, thats why I said that I will stop giving dates and I will speak only when I will be ready for sure.
The few that left? lol

 

[Rossum]

"How do you know how long Evolve had been working on temp control?"

Simply because evolv patented vw at December 2013, when my patent for temp control is 4 months after, that is April 2014. If evolv had thought of it earlier, they wouldnt patent vw but temp control

Huh? The priority date on their patent (which is almost certainly the date on which they filed a provisional application) is Oct 28, 2011.

 

[fryfour]

this thread needs closed.... imeo when you have your vir out to the masses lets discuss it .until then we are all sick of hearing about it jmo?

 

[fryfour]

and i say this ....only because it looks like to me that this discussion has turned into a pissing match

 

[imeothanasis]

lol, you are absolutely right Fry. I will do it now buddy

 

[imeothanasis]

All Proteus serials are released, so you can freely buy them