WARNING: Vaping Prohibition About to Become Law !

[zoiDman]

Even if this particular version of the BBB doesn't pass, some version will have to pass to prevent a government shutdown. What are the odds that we can get this tax removed from the final version? With the politicians fighting over their special interest and being in BT and BP pockets to boot, a million or so vapers across the country won't amount to much in the big picture. This tax will pass.

Hard to Say? But I would give it a 25% Chance of being Completely Removed. And a 40% it will remain but at a Lower Basis.

"Senators Joe Manchin (West Virginia), Catherine Cortez Masto (Nevada), and Kyrsten Sinema (Arizona) have indicated they don’t support a tax primarily on nicotine vaping. But that isn’t written in stone, and additional emails from constituents could help them firm up their stand against the unfair, business-killing nicotine tax."

Nicotine Tax Passes House, Must Be Stopped in Senate

"Catherine Cortez Masto (D–Nev.), who told The Wall Street Journal this week that she won't vote for the nicotine tax. "I'm very clear. I don't support any type of tax, a regressive tax on the very people that we're trying to cut costs, cut taxes on,"

https://reason.com/2021/11/12/a-federal-vaping-tax-is-bad-policy-and-bad-politics/

 

[Vapeon4Life]

Hard to Say? But I would give it a 25% Chance of being Completely Removed. And a 40% it will remain but at a Lower Basis.

"Senators Joe Manchin (West Virginia), Catherine Cortez Masto (Nevada), and Kyrsten Sinema (Arizona) have indicated they don’t support a tax primarily on nicotine vaping. But that isn’t written in stone, and additional emails from constituents could help them firm up their stand against the unfair, business-killing nicotine tax."

Nicotine Tax Passes House, Must Be Stopped in Senate

"Catherine Cortez Masto (D–Nev.), who told The Wall Street Journal this week that she won't vote for the nicotine tax. "I'm very clear. I don't support any type of tax, a regressive tax on the very people that we're trying to cut costs, cut taxes on,"

https://reason.com/2021/11/12/a-federal-vaping-tax-is-bad-policy-and-bad-politics/

Catherine Cortez Masto (D–Nev.) is from my state.
She did once reply to one of the online petitions but the response was generic and not encouraging but that may have been a year or two back

I again signed the CASAA petition a few days ago and she is listed as one of the Senators on it in my state

Any other way I can express my concerns to her in a way that she might actually read it? Or at least one of proof readers she has will bring it to her attention?

I already sent an email to Joe Manchin to an address given on this forum last week.

 

[WorksForMe]

Even if this particular version of the BBB doesn't pass, some version will have to pass to prevent a government shutdown.

Why do you say it has to pass? It's a social spending plan. Almost a third of the House bill goes toward fighting climate change. Another $400 billion is for universal pre-K.


.

 

[SonnyCrack]

Why do you say it has to pass? It's a social spending plan. Almost a third of the House bill goes toward fighting climate change. Another $400 billion is for universal pre-K.


.

The BBB is a budget plan - it's either that passes or another Omnibus bill - either way something will pass. Same thing happened last year and the PACT act got in.. It'll probably happen right before Christmas break the same way.

 

[WorksForMe]

The BBB is a budget plan - it's either that passes or another Omnibus bill - either way something will pass. Same thing happened last year and the PACT act got in.. It'll probably happen right before Christmas break the same way.

You're mistaken. It's not a budget bill that has to pass. Did you follow the link in my last post?


.

 

[ShowMeTwice]

I'm just Not Ready to Laydown in that Hole Yet.

Zoid, perhaps I didn't communicate very effectively. I'm sorry.

Please, let me try again. I'll elaborate further and hopefully be very clearly understood with my thoughts.


The grave was dug long ago = The great powers that felt threatened (Gov, BT, BP) by the Rebel Upstart vape Industry have planned for how to Kill the vape industry we all have known since it came into being. Everyone here should know that as fact. In all business there is a known playbook for Killing Your Competitors.

All that remains is the burial = This year the Powers That Be have been burying what existed of a very vibrant vape industry. It's been a vibrant industry through 2020 and part of 2021 even with the writing on The Wall (PF ). All here, who have been paying attention, have witnessed this. The PMTA process has killed nearly all who applied and for lack of better words truly buried their businesses. The postal ban has succeeded in burying many good businesses throughout the USA. And the world at large because some of those businesses in other parts of the world will no longer sell to USA customers.

Like it or not... The PMTA + Postal Ban = a sound strategy by the Powers that Be. They are witnessing what remains of the End Game they sought.


My wording was never meant to be taken by you, or anyone here, as "we should just lay down and give up". No, not at all.


Sometimes a Picture can be worth A Thousand Words...

Whether we like it or not, that ^^^ is the reality of Our situation.

Truth be told, some here choose to say "Side XYZ" is to blame. That is Dumb and a simple Untruth. And as with much in Life it is not the entire Truth or Story. And frankly, Truth is something many do not like to hear, face or acknowledge.

All sides in government are against us vapers (republican, democrat, indie). All of those mother are to blame not one single side or person. Fact.

Again, that doesn't mean the same as "lay down and give up". No, not at all.

I would love for any one person here to post a letter from their elected officials supporting the vape industry (as we have known it).
I laugh sarcastically because I know damn well that not one person here is able to produce such a letter because sadly no such letter exists.

The only letters people have received from their elected bozos officials have read something like this... "Thank you for writing me. I am considering all sides. Please continue to vote for me". And those are basically very polite words for " off".

Does that ^^^ mean we give up? No, it doesn't.

By now it should be well known to all that the vape industry collectively over the last decade failed to come up with any kind of strategy(s) for their Future or to Combat the Powers that Be.

In Sun Tzu's 'Art of War' he asserted "the best way to conquer the enemy is to attack his strategy." From what I've seen the vape industry hasn't done that. They've not shown any actionable strategy(s) that 'might' overturn The Powers that Be (Gov, BT, BP). That's not to say there are none In The Works. There might be. Only a fool would reveal their strategies before their proper time.

Some may not like this... We as individuals, as vapers, "have made lots of noise" and continue making noise, but like it or not, we are a very small ragtag group in the Grand Scheme of Things.

We beat many drums and sound many instruments. Truth be told we are very far from being "in tune" and we lack any rhythm as a band. No one is buying, or even listening anymore, to our Song. Our song has been shown the proverbial Bit Bucket.

As individuals we lack the resources required for Pay To Play. Or to get heard. A vote? Sure. But, where has that gotten, or helped, the vaping industry, or us as vapers, over the last decade plus? Nowhere.

Regarding A Vote... As some here, in the Deeming thread, have repeatedly said... We Get Exactly What and Who We Vote For. Last I checked none in positions of power be they Red, Blue, Purple or any other dumb color have helped us vapers. Fact.

No one here should be offended by what follows. Some will, but that's ok. We play this same tune of ours over and over and over again. Problem is We Are the only Ones Hearing Each Other. I guess for some who just like to constantly , pee and moan that Plays well. Perhaps that helps some with venting, IDK.

Where has that gotten us in Changing the Tide? Not very far at all.

At this point, the Powers that Be have demonized vaping to the point where the majority of people in this country understand vaping is bad. There is nothing anyone can say to change a made up and closed mind.

The numbers have always been stacked against us.

Does that mean we should just give up? Hell no. Do I have all the answers? Hell no. Does any one single person here have all the answers? Hell no. If any one person claims to they should be tossed off the bus.

What I do think is that we need a very sound strategy(s) and people who are actually Able To Work Together to actually enact said strategy(s). Will we ever be able to change all the minds of those against vaping? Nope, don't think we are trying to do that. We're after the open minded of Those In Power Who have the Power and are Willing to Enact Change. At this time there do not appear to be any of those. Someday there might be.

And for the record, I'm not at all happy about what is happening to the vape industry or vapers. No different than any of my fellow ECF'ers.

 

[zoiDman]

...

Any other way I can express my concerns to her in a way that she might actually read it? Or at least one of proof readers she has will bring it to her attention?

...

The Best way to have the Highest Impact is to send a Physical Letter that is No More than One Page in Length.

State that you are Apposed to a "Regressive" Tax on Nicotine that Singles out People who have chosen to Quit Smoking by using an e-Cigarette. Or are in the Process of Quitting. Keep the Human Interest stuff to a Minimal.

Making it Harder and More Expensive for Lower Bracket Individuals to Quit Smoking or seek a Healthier Alternative to Smoking is Not what America should be doing. We should be doing the Direct Opposite. Making it Easier for people to Quit.

Also include that you are Active on the Electronic Cigarette Forum which has a Membership of over 100,000 (check the ECF stats for an accurate number) like minded members who feels as you do.

Lastly, get out Your Checkbook and cut Mrs. Masto's campaign fund a Check. You can include something like I would like to give more. But being on a Limited Budget and with the Huge Increase in Prices, Rent, Gasoline you can't afford to. Once again, don't make it to Sappy. Just a Statement of Fact.

 

[zoiDman]

Zoid, perhaps I didn't communicate very effectively. I'm sorry.

Please, let me try again. I'll elaborate further and hopefully be very clearly understood with my thoughts.


The grave was dug long ago = The great powers that felt threatened (Gov, BT, BP) by the Rebel Upstart Vape Industry have planned for how to Kill the vape industry we all have known since it came into being. Everyone here should know that as fact. In all business there is a known playbook for Killing Your Competitors.

All that remains is the burial = This year the Powers That Be have been burying what existed of a very vibrant vape industry. It's been a vibrant industry through 2020 and part of 2021 even with the writing on The Wall (PF ). All here, who have been paying attention, have witnessed this. The PMTA process has killed nearly all who applied and for lack of better words truly buried their businesses. The postal ban has succeeded in burying many good businesses throughout the USA. And the world at large because some of those businesses in other parts of the world will no longer sell to USA customers.

Like it or not... The PMTA + Postal Ban = a sound strategy by the Powers that Be. They are witnessing what remains of the End Game they sought.


My wording was never meant to be taken by you, or anyone here, as "we should just lay down and give up". No, not at all.


Sometimes a Picture can be worth A Thousand Words...
View attachment 963305 Whether we like it or not, that ^^^ is the reality of Our situation.

Truth be told, some here choose to say "Side XYZ" is to blame. That is Dumb and a simple Untruth. And as with much in Life it is not the entire Truth or Story. And frankly, Truth is something many do not like to hear, face or acknowledge.

All sides in government are against us vapers (republican, democrat, indie). All of those mother are to blame not one single side or person. Fact.

Again, that doesn't mean the same as "lay down and give up". No, not at all.

I would love for any one person here to post a letter from their elected officials supporting the vape industry (as we have known it).
I laugh sarcastically because I know damn well that not one person here is able to produce such a letter because sadly no such letter exists.

The only letters people have received from their elected bozos officials have read something like this... "Thank you for writing me. I am considering all sides. Please continue to vote for me". And those are basically very polite words for " off".

Does that ^^^ mean we give up? No, it doesn't.

By now it should be well known to all that the vape industry collectively over the last decade failed to come up with any kind of strategy(s) for their Future or to Combat the Powers that Be.

In Sun Tzu's 'Art of War' he asserted "the best way to conquer the enemy is to attack his strategy." From what I've seen the vape industry hasn't done that. They've not shown any actionable strategy(s) that 'might' overturn The Powers that Be (Gov, BT, BP). That's not to say there are none In The Works. There might be. Only a fool would reveal their strategies before their proper time.

Some may not like this... We as individuals, as vapers, "have made lots of noise" and continue making noise, but like it or not, we are a very small ragtag group in the Grand Scheme of Things.

We beat many drums and sound many instruments. Truth be told we are very far from being "in tune" and we lack any rhythm as a band. No one is buying, or even listening anymore, to our Song. Our song has been shown the proverbial Bit Bucket.

As individuals we lack the resources required for Pay To Play. Or to get heard. A vote? Sure. But, where has that gotten, or helped, the vaping industry, or us as vapers, over the last decade plus? Nowhere.

Regarding A Vote... As some here, in the Deeming thread, have repeatedly said... We Get Exactly What and Who We Vote For. Last I checked none in positions of power be they Red, Blue, Purple or any other dumb color have helped us vapers. Fact.

No one here should be offended by what follows. Some will, but that's ok. We play this same tune of ours over and over and over again. Problem is We Are the only Ones Hearing Each Other. I guess for some who just like to constantly , pee and moan that Plays well. Perhaps that helps some with venting, IDK.

Where has that gotten us in Changing the Tide? Not very far at all.

At this point, the Powers that Be have demonized vaping to the point where the majority of people in this country understand vaping is bad. There is nothing anyone can say to change a made up and closed mind.

The numbers have always been stacked against us.

Does that mean we should just give up? Hell no. Do I have all the answers? Hell no. Does any one single person here have all the answers? Hell no. If any one person claims to they should be tossed off the bus.

What I do think is that we need a very sound strategy(s) and people who are actually Able To Work Together to actually enact said strategy(s). Will we ever be able to change all the minds of those against vaping? Nope, don't think we are trying to do that. We're after the open minded of Those In Power Who have the Power and are Willing to Enact Change. At this time there do not appear to be any of those. Someday there might be.

And for the record, I'm not at all happy about what is happening to the vape industry or vapers. No different than any of my fellow ECF'ers.

I agree with Most of what you are say'n. And I Hope that you didn't take my Post as trying to Call You out. Because I have a Good Sense of your views about where we are. And they are Mostly Aligned with mine.



What I think is Sometimes Lost be some who read what I post is that I am a Realist. And that Fully Understand that Much of the Freedoms we have Enjoyed e-Cigarette-wise for the Last Decade are going to be Lost.

It what we Loose and When we Loose them that is Important.

Because in Battle, if One Side can Gain Enough Momentum, it can Overcome even a Superior Force. And we have Never had a Superior Force.

If we Don't Rally and make some kind of Stand Now on this Nicotine Tax, we might as well Laydown in that Hole I Mention. Because in their Eyes, they see us as Defeated.

One of Sun Tzu's most Meaningful Tenants is to Know when to Fight and when Not to Fight: avoid what is strong and strike at what is weak.

Fighting a Regressive Tax is when to Fight. Because Our Enemy is Weak when it comes to Why they should Single Out one sector of the Population who's only Sin was wanting to Quit Smoking.

Understand, if House and Senate Members felt they had a Strong Base behind the e-Cigarette Tax, they would have run it thru Regular Order as a Standalone piece of Legislation. Instead of throwing onto the Reconciliation Train along with everything else.

Same with Feinstein's Jenkin's/PACT Act Amendment last year. Why do you think the Speaker of the House held that Bill at the Desk after it passed the Senate by Unanimous Consent? Only for it to appear at the 11th Hour in the twilight of the Last President?

I'm Fighting for Time more so than for what Most would consider Absolute Victory. Because Time allows e-Cigarettes to be Normalized in the eyes of the Average Voter. It also counters much of the Hype and FUD that the Media has tried to branding onto e-Cigarette use.

Are we going to Win and to somehow have e-Cigarettes returned to what You and I have Enjoyed in our time here on the ECF?

No. We Are Not.

But can we Soften the Blow that is Coming? And perhaps Give More People the Opportunity get off Cigarettes and Maybe even do some Stocking Up?

Yes. Yes We Can.

And that is Why I Fight. For that Last Remaining Sand in the Glass.

 

[BillW50]

Zoid, perhaps I didn't communicate very effectively. I'm sorry.

Please, let me try again. I'll elaborate further and hopefully be very clearly understood with my thoughts.


The grave was dug long ago = The great powers that felt threatened (Gov, BT, BP) by the Rebel Upstart Vape Industry have planned for how to Kill the vape industry we all have known since it came into being. Everyone here should know that as fact. In all business there is a known playbook for Killing Your Competitors.

All that remains is the burial = This year the Powers That Be have been burying what existed of a very vibrant vape industry. It's been a vibrant industry through 2020 and part of 2021 even with the writing on The Wall (PF ). All here, who have been paying attention, have witnessed this. The PMTA process has killed nearly all who applied and for lack of better words truly buried their businesses. The postal ban has succeeded in burying many good businesses throughout the USA. And the world at large because some of those businesses in other parts of the world will no longer sell to USA customers.

Like it or not... The PMTA + Postal Ban = a sound strategy by the Powers that Be. They are witnessing what remains of the End Game they sought.


My wording was never meant to be taken by you, or anyone here, as "we should just lay down and give up". No, not at all.


Sometimes a Picture can be worth A Thousand Words...
View attachment 963305 Whether we like it or not, that ^^^ is the reality of Our situation.

Truth be told, some here choose to say "Side XYZ" is to blame. That is Dumb and a simple Untruth. And as with much in Life it is not the entire Truth or Story. And frankly, Truth is something many do not like to hear, face or acknowledge.

All sides in government are against us vapers (republican, democrat, indie). All of those mother are to blame not one single side or person. Fact.

Again, that doesn't mean the same as "lay down and give up". No, not at all.

I would love for any one person here to post a letter from their elected officials supporting the vape industry (as we have known it).
I laugh sarcastically because I know damn well that not one person here is able to produce such a letter because sadly no such letter exists.

The only letters people have received from their elected bozos officials have read something like this... "Thank you for writing me. I am considering all sides. Please continue to vote for me". And those are basically very polite words for " off".

Does that ^^^ mean we give up? No, it doesn't.

By now it should be well known to all that the vape industry collectively over the last decade failed to come up with any kind of strategy(s) for their Future or to Combat the Powers that Be.

In Sun Tzu's 'Art of War' he asserted "the best way to conquer the enemy is to attack his strategy." From what I've seen the vape industry hasn't done that. They've not shown any actionable strategy(s) that 'might' overturn The Powers that Be (Gov, BT, BP). That's not to say there are none In The Works. There might be. Only a fool would reveal their strategies before their proper time.

Some may not like this... We as individuals, as vapers, "have made lots of noise" and continue making noise, but like it or not, we are a very small ragtag group in the Grand Scheme of Things.

We beat many drums and sound many instruments. Truth be told we are very far from being "in tune" and we lack any rhythm as a band. No one is buying, or even listening anymore, to our Song. Our song has been shown the proverbial Bit Bucket.

As individuals we lack the resources required for Pay To Play. Or to get heard. A vote? Sure. But, where has that gotten, or helped, the vaping industry, or us as vapers, over the last decade plus? Nowhere.

Regarding A Vote... As some here, in the Deeming thread, have repeatedly said... We Get Exactly What and Who We Vote For. Last I checked none in positions of power be they Red, Blue, Purple or any other dumb color have helped us vapers. Fact.

No one here should be offended by what follows. Some will, but that's ok. We play this same tune of ours over and over and over again. Problem is We Are the only Ones Hearing Each Other. I guess for some who just like to constantly , pee and moan that Plays well. Perhaps that helps some with venting, IDK.

Where has that gotten us in Changing the Tide? Not very far at all.

At this point, the Powers that Be have demonized vaping to the point where the majority of people in this country understand vaping is bad. There is nothing anyone can say to change a made up and closed mind.

The numbers have always been stacked against us.

Does that mean we should just give up? Hell no. Do I have all the answers? Hell no. Does any one single person here have all the answers? Hell no. If any one person claims to they should be tossed off the bus.

What I do think is that we need a very sound strategy(s) and people who are actually Able To Work Together to actually enact said strategy(s). Will we ever be able to change all the minds of those against vaping? Nope, don't think we are trying to do that. We're after the open minded of Those In Power Who have the Power and are Willing to Enact Change. At this time there do not appear to be any of those. Someday there might be.

And for the record, I'm not at all happy about what is happening to the vape industry or vapers. No different than any of my fellow ECF'ers.

Actually, it is Bloomberg himself which is killing vaping worldwide. And Bloomberg gets as many as possible to drink the Bloomberg koolaid. But you are mistaken that all have. Some are on our side.

 

[ShowMeTwice]

Actually, it is Bloomberg himself which is killing vaping worldwide.

Funny, I never mentioned Bloomberg.

BTW, your opinion reads as though it is he and he alone who is trying to kill vaping worldwide. If intended as such it would not be very accurate.

To be clear, I am not saying Bloomberg is a good guy or a bad guy. I have no opinion one way or the other. I don't need to. But I am well aware that some here, and one in particular, has an obsession with and the need for Bloomberg to be their whipping boy and poster child. Some need to put a Face to things.

Bloomberg is anti vaping, skrew him! He is not the person we need to convince. There will always be types like him. They may have a few billion less, but whatever.

Heck several of my neighbors are extremely anti vaping! I could care a less what they think. They have been very close minded to my attempts at education. I won't waste my energy with those types any longer.

We can only educate those willing, and desirous, of education.


And yes, a few have been, as you say "on our side". But certainly no majority has ever been on the side of vapers. That's the simple plain as day fact.


In the end, this has always been about Control and Money. With BT doing the controlling and making the money. Not Bloomberg.

 

[BillW50]

In the end, this has always been about Control and Money. With BT doing the controlling and making the money. Not Bloomberg.

Don't bet on it. He gets funded all of the time. And remember it was said that he seeded a vape company called Hava. And once all of the competitors are out of business, guess who will fill the void?

https://www.austriancenter.com/whats-behind-michael-bloombergs-vaping-phobia/

 

[englishmick]

Funny, I never mentioned Bloomberg.

BTW, your opinion reads as though it is he and he alone who is trying to kill vaping worldwide. If intended as such it would not be very accurate.

To be clear, I am not saying Bloomberg is a good guy or a bad guy. I have no opinion one way or the other. I don't need to. But I am well aware that some here, and one in particular, has an obsession with and the need for Bloomberg to be their whipping boy and poster child. Some need to put a Face to things.

Bloomberg is anti vaping, skrew him! He is not the person we need to convince. There will always be types like him. They may have a few billion less, but whatever.

Heck several of my neighbors are extremely anti vaping! I could care a less what they think. They have been very close minded to my attempts at education. I won't waste my energy with those types any longer.

We can only educate those willing, and desirous, of education.


And yes, a few have been, as you say "on our side". But certainly no majority has ever been on the side of vapers. That's the simple plain as day fact.


In the end, this has always been about Control and Money. With BT doing the controlling and making the money. Not Bloomberg.

A handful of pols have criticized the tax. Did any of them do that because they think vaping is good? Maybe their strategists told them it would appeal to some segment of their voters to speak out against taxes that hurt the less well off. Or something along those lines. Would any of them decide how to vote on BBB because of it? There are bigger and more significant items in that bill, plus party loyalty and whatever their big donors are telling them. That's why the pols like those omnibus bills. There's always something in there that they can use to justify their vote, for or against.

Like several people have pointed out above most voters have been persuaded that vaping is dangerous.

I saw this piece of nonsense last week (Dr. Richard Feldman is an Indianapolis family physician and the former state health commissioner.) With stuff like this popping up every day from "trusted sources" and virtually nothing from our side we're at the bottom of a very steep hill.

Richard Feldman: Flavors lure children into vaping - The Daily Reporter - Greenfield Indiana (greenfieldreporter.com)

 

[Vapeon4Life]

In the end, this has always been about Control and Money. With BT doing the controlling and making the money. Not Bloomberg.

Let's debate that last statement - as we are on the same side even if we may see things differently.

Bloomberg has become symbolic as the consummate anti tobacco, and now nicotine itself {not just vaping} czar {Two years ago gave one billion anti tobacco and another 160 million just anti vape}
- And with money to burn he uses it as he pleases - So he and/or the cartels he supports have been shown to be trying to destroy vaping throughout the World - not just here in the US. In the Philippines Bloomberg Philanthropies has been accused of illegally getting involved in their politics to kill vaping - In the US it is more obvious and his 'control freak' hunger for power and control led him to run for President, and even though he lost soundly in the primaries, I find it scary that some people still voted for him - Still his huge fortune is still in play and I smell his money all over this current Nicotine tax - His money will push it through as politicians need Bloomberg's money to win elections - you, us, the peoples contributions are trivial in comparison.
What was that old expression advertisers use to used "Money talks and nobody walks"
Bloomberg should have one - "Money talks and I talk the loudest"
Another words you don't matter. Nicotine of any sort is his sworn enemy and he would if he could outlaw it entirely - And he is, slowly, but surely doing it right now.
True Bloomberg itself is not the only entity behind the current nicotine inquisition - But his money is funding a good part of it !!!

Now let's talk about Big Tobacco, that many keep trying to demonize and blame for our problems.
Yes, its true, RJ Reynolds got me to quit smoking entirely with its Vuse products and now I have the problem of trying to defend vaping as I really don't want to go back to smoking my pipes and cigars.
And wasn't it RJ Reynolds that had the money to fight to get the FDA to admit that yes, vaping is safer than smoking? Greedy you say? They want it all? Maybe - But greed rules the World {ask Michael Bloomberg}
and Reynolds would not have touched vaping if they didn't see money. And with the current FDA ruling brought about by Reynolds money all smaller companies have legal precedence to fight FDA rulings against them.
Some already are - and the FDA has already agreed to reconsider some of its denials.
So in my opinion BT is not our enemy - Except in an indirect way - They started to really popularize vaping and the popularity of any tobacco product fuels the Bloomberg {et al} types to attack.

 

[ShowMeTwice]

@Vapeon4Life,

Much of what you say, and post, by your own admissions, are your own conspiracy theories. At least that is what you have very recently posted over in the Outside. Remember???

I don't subscribe to the conspiracy crowd. Never have, never will. IMO they are Loonies and very serious Nut Jobs!!!

Let's debate that last statement - as we are on the same side even if we may see things differently.

What I said...

In the end, this has always been about Control and Money. With BT doing the controlling and making the money. Not Bloomberg.

True Bloomberg itself is not the only entity behind the current nicotine inquisition

There ^^^ that is the truth. However, he is a small fish compared to the likes of BT, BP and USA Gov.


Do you seriously and honestly think Bloomberg alone, worldwide, has the kind of power you speak of? If he does then that would mean he has power over BT, BP and USA Gov as well as all other Gov's.


In some conspiracy circles that would make him the Emperor of the World. Forget prez of this good 'ol USofA but the very world itself. That is what I would call really really far out there thinking.


Seems to me, from his time as mayor of the Great NYC and those failed attempts to run for USofA Prez that his friends are on the limited side all across Gov, BT, BP, the soft drink industry and very likely other large corporate types. That would be basic common sense to Me.

I'm thinking the guy likely has more enemies than friends. But none here would know that for certain would we? No we wouldn't.


Your statements try to communicate that you don't think those who are in control of BT, BP and USA Gov have had any say in this, on their own, or around the world, and that all took their cues from Emperor Bloomberg.

Come on! To think Bloomberg has that kind of power over BT, BP and USA Gov is silly. To think his anti vaping and tobacco stances are a friend of BT the world over is even sillier.

Only the conspiracy types would subscribe to that. I do not.


Bloomberg's stated goals, and over one billion in donations, are completely opposed to the goals of BT.

In the world of big tobacco, and future BT vaping product(s), that does not make Bloomberg a friend of BT. Reducing Tobacco Use | Bloomberg Philanthropies

BT, on its own, yields great power all over the world to protect and control the very outcome of its products be they actual tobacco or vaping related. All without the help or advice of Emperor Bloomberg.


Set your whipping Boy aside as though he never existed. Do you honestly think for one second BT was ever going to allow the Upstart Vaping Industry to cut into their profits without the Major Fight That Wasn't? Or without putting some pressure on those in Gov to whom they contribute?

BT's pockets were always deep enough to fight the Upstart Vape Industry on their own.

In the Philippines Bloomberg Philanthropies has been accused of illegally getting involved in their politics to kill vaping

So I am curious... You do realize the Philippine government is rather corrupt from bottom to top. Right? Then it should come as no surprise to you that money talks with corrupt types. No?

I smell his money all over this current Nicotine tax

Do you have any actual proof or links to back that up? I didn't think so.

Thinking you can smell someones money that you've never actually caught a whiff of is silly.

Don't take this personally... Since you are so knowledgeable with the smell of his money... how does it smell?

I'll offer something just as silly... If your boy Bloomy gave you $500 million to Shut Up about all this... my money has you taking his money in a heartbeat and never being heard from on ECF ever again.

So in my opinion BT is not our enemy - Except in an indirect way

R U Serious Bro??? I mean what planet... NVM!


Ok, I need to stop right here!


Yes, indeed this has always been about Control and Money with BT doing the controlling and making the money Worldwide.


Wasting so much energy on Bloomy is very myopic in nature. He is a Small Fish with a lot of Money.

He never was the Character in the Story with the Aircraft Carrier. Your Boy Bloomy has Zero control over that Capital Ship.

 

[Vapeon4Life]

Set your whipping Boy aside as though he never existed. Do you honestly think for one second BT was ever going to allow the Upstart Vaping Industry to cut into their profits without the Major Fight That Wasn't? Or without putting some pressure on those in Gov to whom they contribute?

BT's pockets were always deep enough to fight the Upstart Vape Industry on their own.

One more time. RJ Reynolds {is that big tobacco?} was the only company that actually got the FDA to admit that yes, vaping is safer than smoking !!! - Does that sound like they are throwing vaping under the bus?
Or are you the one espousing a far out conspiracy theory ??? Or, am I smelling another Bloomberg conspiracy? Ever wonder how many shills and trolls he pays for? I do.

Back to RJ Reynolds, who as of now has the only legal vape device - BUT has set precedent for others.
If not for them and their money all vaping might already be illegal.

And finally I now question whether we are really on the some side because my CONSPIRACY {as you have named it} view teaches me to see through hypocritical thinking of any kind.

Anyone willing to downplay the malignant influence of Michael Bloomberg on anything nicotine is
either a fool, delusional, or working for Michael Bloomberg {even if not willingly}.

And again your statement about me and the 'Outside' recently had nothing to do with vaping
- it was about Trump, Rittenhouse and guns.

Did you read it?

Here is an interesting book to read:

The Unseen Hand: An Introduction to the Conspiratorial View of History
"It is the contention of the author that the major events of the past, the wars, the depressions and the revolutions, have been planned years in advance by an international conspiracy. This view is called the Conspiratorial View of History, and is definitely not the view held by the majority of historians today. The more traditional view is called The Accidental View of History, and it holds that no one really knows why events happen....."

And if you can't see the Conspiracy to outlaw vaping, regulate nicotine into a controlled substance like a narcotic drug and how Bloomberg's {et al, Bill Gates has also donated to this} is doing much to further this agenda, then I can't help you.

 

[borno]

pfizer alone has over 100 lobbyists on capital hill. They also make chantix.

 

[smacuser]

Tl;dr

 

[SonnyCrack]

Who's to blame reeeeeeeeeeeeally doesn't matter - this tax WILL be passed.. The conspiracy stuff is pretty pointless but you can guarantee it was a special interest provision that is written in such a way where it does not seem offensive or outside of the norm.. The argument that I see a lot trying to head down is "Oh - remind Joe of his campaign promise".. This is an excise tax not a direct tax.. The vast majority of people vaping don't know or really care about this bill just like when we were all smoking in the 90s we did not pay attention or know when new cigarette taxes were passed and only noticed when we went to the store and paid more money. The only people that will really be affected are open system vapers like most on this forum and DIYers of course...

 

[BillW50]

The only people that will really be affected are open system vapers like most on this forum and DIYers of course...

Actually we are least affected. As DIYers can use generic off of the shelf supplies if needed. The ones that are affected most are those that doesn't DIY and those trying to find a way to quit smoking.

 

[zoiDman]

One more time. RJ Reynolds {is that big tobacco?} was the only company that actually got the FDA to admit that yes, vaping is safer than smoking !!! - Does that sound like they are throwing vaping under the bus?

...

I Think what you are Overlooking is Yes, BT is all for e-Cigarettes. As long as they are the ONLY one's who are going to be Allowed to Sell them.

But if they Felt they weren't going to have Almost Complete and Total Market Dominance, they would rather put their efforts into Burning Down the e-Cigarette Market. And just Continue to Sell combustibles.

Having the FDA say that the VUSE Solo's Health Risks are lessor as when compared Smoking is sort of a Pyrrhic Victory. Because Now the Bar has been set to such a Height (and Expenses) of what RJ Reynolds prepared in their VUSE Solo PMTA. Something that really only other BT Companies can match.