WARNING: Vaping Prohibition About to Become Law !

[Territoo]

That is where profiling comes in. Plenty of other things matter to other people, doesn't mean they don't vape.

Talking points, profiling, etc, along with the almost highest polarization in history, is why I tend to keep politics out of the vaping room.

I think some impact (though I highly doubt it) is if tons of folks emailed Pelosi and other Dems in the state about the issue (don't believe Pelosi is running again, so voting in next election will not matter to her).

The biggest impact is to not bring up talking points nor profiling, and email/contact the Dem Senators in your state. You might get the cookie cutter response above (which is a shame that they might not vote the same as the letter says), but at least one has tried. Dems are people too, and this thread tends to be one issue related. So, brush aside one's differences, and communicate with Dem senators, saying at end voting record matters (even if you don't ever plan to vote for them ).

I've contacted both of my Senators already. They're both Republicans, as is my Representative. I only got canned "Thanks for contacting me." responses. I ultimately feel that this tax is going to pass since it is already part of the omnibus bill. It couldn't pass on it's own merit, though. That was tried last year. But since it is part of the BBB, that has to eventually pass to prevent a government shutdown, it is highly unlikely that it will be excluded now that it has been introduced.

 

[WorksForMe]

I've contacted both of my Senators already. They're both Republicans, as is my Representative. I only got canned "Thanks for contacting me." responses. I ultimately feel that this tax is going to pass since it is already part of the omnibus bill. It couldn't pass on it's own merit, though. That was tried last year. But since it is part of the BBB, that has to eventually pass to prevent a government shutdown, it is highly unlikely that it will be excluded now that it has been introduced.

I'm confused. Why do you think the BBB Act has to pass to keep the government from shutting down? It's not a budget bill. It's a social policy and climate change spending bill. I not saying that there won't be an omnibus budget bill next year that has to pass, and I'm not saying the Dems won't try to slip a vape tax into it if one doesn't get passed with the BBB Act, but as far as I know, it hasn't happened yet. Or am I missing something.

The House Just Passed Biden’s Build Back Better Bill. Here’s What’s In It

.

 

[Territoo]

The BBB is an omnibus bill. Some version of it will have to pass, even if the current one doesn't. It's that or they start from scratch, which will never happen. They've passed a stop gap bill already or the government would have already been in shutdown.

Congress approves a short-term funding bill to avoid a government shutdown

 

[zoiDman]

I'm confused. Why do you think the BBB Act has to pass to keep the government from shutting down? It's not a budget bill. ...

In a Normal World, the President would propose a Budget. Then the Budget would get Voted on in the 12 Committees of Appropriation in the House and the Senate. And when Both the House and the Senate can reach an agreement on what exactly should be in the Budget, after Much Cutting and Amending, then the Budget would have a Full Floor Vote in both the House and the Senate.

But given the Scope of what Biden Proposed (6 Trillion. That's Trillion with a "T"), and given the 50|50 Split in the Senate, there is about 0.0001% Chance that a Budget could be Passed in the Senate.

So the Democrat's invoked the "Reconciliation" processes. Which would only require an Up/Down Vote in Both the House and the Senate.

And in the Event of a Tie in the Senate, the President of the Senate would/will cast the Deciding Vote. And the President of the Senate is the VP, Harris.

From your Link...

"The Build Back Better package now heads to the Senate, where lawmakers in the upper chamber will continue negotiating elements of the bill. The Senate can then pass it with a simple majority through a budget mechanism called reconciliation, but Democrats can’t afford any defections from their 50-member caucus. That means moderate members of the party like West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin and Arizona Sen. Kyrsten Sinema wield enormous power to alter the text of the bill."

Under Reconciliation, anything can be Included into the "Budget" as long as it is Budget Related. And the Senate Parliamentarian gives it an OK. So it's Load Up the Wagon Time.

Here is an Overview of Biden's Budget Proposal

govinfo

 

[SonnyCrack]

In a Normal World, the President would propose a Budget. Then the Budget would get Voted on in the 12 Committees of Appropriation in the House and the Senate. And when Both the House and the Senate can reach an agreement on what exactly should be in the Budget, after Much Cutting and Amending, then the Budget would have a Full Floor Vote in both the House and the Senate.

But given the Scope of what Biden Proposed (6 Trillion. That Trillion with a "T"), and given the 50|50 Split in the Senate, there is about 0.0001% Chance that a Budget could be Passed in the Senate.

So the Democrat's invoked the "Reconciliation" processes. Which would only require an Up/Down Vote in Both the House and the Senate.

And in the Event of a Tie in the Senate, the President of the Senate would/will cast the Deciding Vote. And the President of the Senate is the VP, Harris.

From your Link...

"The Build Back Better package now heads to the Senate, where lawmakers in the upper chamber will continue negotiating elements of the bill. The Senate can then pass it with a simple majority through a budget mechanism called reconciliation, but Democrats can’t afford any defections from their 50-member caucus. That means moderate members of the party like West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin and Arizona Sen. Kyrsten Sinema wield enormous power to alter the text of the bill."

Under Reconciliation, anything can be Included into the "Budget" as long as it is Budget Related. And the Senate Parliamentarian gives it an OK. So it's Load Up the Wagon Time.

Here is an Overview of Biden's Budget Proposal

govinfo

Good summary although it's wroth noting that there haven't been anything other than continuing resolutions for over a decade.

 

[zoiDman]

Good summary although it's wroth noting that there haven't been anything other than continuing resolutions for over a decade.

Correct Me if I'm wrong.

But I believe the Last Time Congress actually meet the Oct 1st Budget Deadline was for the 1997 Fiscal Year.

LOL

 

[SonnyCrack]

Correct Me if I'm wrong.

But I believe the Last Time Congress actually meet the Oct 1st Budget Deadline was for the 1997 Fiscal Year.

LOL

Yup lol I'm not even sure if a President's budget has passed since the 90s either.. Every year they roll one out, get headlines, piss off half the country and the other half cheers and never passes. lol Welcome to America.

 

[WorksForMe]

In a Normal World, the President would propose a Budget. Then the Budget would get Voted on in the 12 Committees of Appropriation in the House and the Senate. And when Both the House and the Senate can reach an agreement on what exactly should be in the Budget, after Much Cutting and Amending, then the Budget would have a Full Floor Vote in both the House and the Senate.

But given the Scope of what Biden Proposed (6 Trillion. That Trillion with a "T"), and given the 50|50 Split in the Senate, there is about 0.0001% Chance that a Budget could be Passed in the Senate.

So the Democrat's invoked the "Reconciliation" processes. Which would only require an Up/Down Vote in Both the House and the Senate.

And in the Event of a Tie in the Senate, the President of the Senate would/will cast the Deciding Vote. And the President of the Senate is the VP, Harris.

From your Link...

"The Build Back Better package now heads to the Senate, where lawmakers in the upper chamber will continue negotiating elements of the bill. The Senate can then pass it with a simple majority through a budget mechanism called reconciliation, but Democrats can’t afford any defections from their 50-member caucus. That means moderate members of the party like West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin and Arizona Sen. Kyrsten Sinema wield enormous power to alter the text of the bill."

Under Reconciliation, anything can be Included into the "Budget" as long as it is Budget Related. And the Senate Parliamentarian gives it an OK. So it's Load Up the Wagon Time.

Here is an Overview of Biden's Budget Proposal

govinfo

I thought I understood how this works, but maybe I don't. I thought BBB Act is separate from the 2022 budget that has to be passed to keep the government from shutting down. Are you saying that during the reconciliation process, they will combine BBB Act with all the appropriations bills and pass it all together. That doesn't sound right to me.

.

 

[zoiDman]

I thought I understood how this works, but maybe I don't. I thought BBB Act is separate from the 2022 budget that has to be passed to keep the government from shutting down. Are you saying that during the reconciliation process, they will combine BBB Act with all the appropriations bills and pass it all together. That doesn't sound right to me.

.

As I understand it, BBB was never an Individual piece of Legislation. It was Always part of Biden's FY2022 Budget.

See the Last Link I posted in Post #64.

The Name BBB is what people/the media Latched onto. Because Everything in Congress has to have a Catchy Names needed to become "Buzz Words". That, and it was a Not so Subtle Dig on Trump.

But understand the Reconciliation Process. Once you are going to go down that Road, you are going to want to get As Much as Possible. Because you Only get 1 Reconciliation (with a few Exceptions) per year. So you are Almost Always going to use it on the Budget. And then Pile in as Much as You until the Parliamentarian says you Can't. Like trying to include $15.00 Minimum Wage. Or some Immigration Policy.

 

[zoiDman]

... Are you saying that during the reconciliation process, they will combine BBB Act with all the appropriations bills and pass it all together. That doesn't sound right to me.

During the Reconciliation Process, they "Majority" Party can include Anything Budget Related as long as the Senate Parliamentarian allows it.

Things like a New Tax on e-Cigarette only Nicotine to fund Tax Breaks to the Wealthy via a Increased SALT Deduction.

As long as you can get 50+ Votes in the Senate.
And as long as there is Moneys that can be Spent. And you Don't Exceed the Debt Limit without a way to Increase it.

Those 2 Above Constraints is why Nothing has been Passed yet. Because a Few Democratic Senators are pushing back on the "Top Line" total cost. And the Democrat's are (wisely) unwilling to include Raising the Debt Ceiling into a Reconciliation.

So they are going to Need some Republications onboard.

 

[WorksForMe]

Ok, I guess we'll see how it plays out. To get back on topic for a minute, hopefully the "rogue" Democratic Senators will insist the vape tax not be included in the bill. I'm sure that won't stop them from voting for the bill though.

 

[zoiDman]

Ok, I guess we'll see how it plays out. To get back on topic for a minute, hopefully the "rogue" Democratic Senators will insist the vape tax not be included in the bill. I'm sure that won't stop them from voting for the bill though.

Who Knows? Sen. Sineme has been very vocal Against the e-Cigarette Nicotine Tax. So I give it about a 50|50 Chance of being included.

About the Only thing that is Certain is that I'm sure they will Drag Things Out until the 11th Hour. And then Pat themselves on the back like performing the Most Fundamental Duty of Congress after Months of Missed Deadlines and Delays is some Great Accomplishment.

That's Really How Low the Bar has gotten in BOTH Parties.

 

[AvaOrchid]

Not to rain on yet another very colorful Bloomy Love Parade...

...but everyone who took up vaping long ago had more than ample time to stock up and prepare.

Those new to vaping, and those who held on to hope the vapocalypse would never come, will have to deal with 'Our Minders Approved Devices'.

In retrospect, this battle was lost long ago. The larger forces arrayed on all sides against the vape industry and us vapers saw to that.

The day of nic and ejuice costing more than a gallon of gas is very nearly here.

The grave was dug long ago. All that remains is the burial.

Chin up, more and more states are serving up the alternative stuff.

If we're being perfectly honest while there are organizations that formed together mostly from individual support in order to promote vaping and try and keep the options open there was never a concerted effort by those who stand to make the most money to create a lobbying group with teeth. Yes we do have some contribution but it's usually from YouTube personalities and individuals rather than from the big name brands and juice manufacturers. They may have contributed a little bit or may have offered sales where 5% of the profit goes to a vaping advocacy group but there was never a huge push to create a lobbying group in Washington. There was never a huge push to purchase the senators and congressman that were up for sale. The tobacco industry on the other hand owns nearly every politician on every side. That never happened with vaping even though again I'm not trying to take away from those who did try like the advocacy groups we do have. They're trying their best but they were never funded very well by those that stand to make the most out of vaping being legal and less regulated.
The responsibility has always fallen on the individuals with the least power. So it was doomed to fail. You have to own senators and Congress people in order to get this .... done and that never really happened.

And while I also understand why they pushed so hard to have e-cigarettes and e-cigarette accoutrements be put under the purvey of cigarettes and tobacco rather than smoking cessation product because had they pushed that which would have been a much higher standard to live up to and cost a lot more to get approved ultimately it happened anyway didn't it? Ultimately they still had the FDA requiring scientific support statements and the FDA didn't even pretend to give them any respect didn't have any intention of giving them any leeway to begin with. So while the industry pushing to have vaping be categorized as a tobacco product did keep the products around for a few extra years ultimately it will be the demise.

 

[WorksForMe]

For anyone that doesn't follow the CASAA forum, Kristin posted that the vape tax has been removed from Build Back Better Act.

The only news article I've found about it so far is behind a paywall.
WSJ News Exclusive | Democrats Drop Vaping Tax From Senate Plan as They Negotiate Bill Details


.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

https://vapingscout.com/vaping-news/9-billion-dollar-vaping-tax-dropped-spending-bill/

 

[tj99959]

https://vapingscout.com/vaping-news/9-billion-dollar-vaping-tax-dropped-spending-bill/

I'll give that a "winner" (for now)

 

[englishmick]

I'll give that a "winner" (for now)

Yeah - one big donation from Tobacco and it could go right back in.