What if it’s MORE misleading than we thought?

[bombastinator]

i was reading Another seemingly misleading article and something occurred to me tertiarily.

This dead kids thing isn’t just the biggest e-cigarette problem of the moment, it’s ALSO the biggest legalized cannabis problem of the moment as well. People are dying because they’re buying fake drugs they think are from legal sources.

What if this whole thing is an attempt to shift blame FROM legal cannabis TO e-cigarettes? Are all of the fast moving politicians from states that recently legalized? BT would have a big thing to gain because they kill two birds. They’re heavily heavily invested in legalized cannibis AND they hate ecigs.

Just a thought. Might be worthless. Thought I’d throw it out there though. Maul away. I’m interested to see what’s wrong with it.

 

[Baditude]

Personally, I think it is just a coincidence. The FDA and politicians were about to ban ecig flavors (kids vape for flavors BS) and then hospitalizatons and deaths occur from "vaping" (nevermind they were all vaping black market THC). That just turned up the intensity to ban flavors, and possibly ban vape gear, too. At least two amateurs have been arrested in Minnesotta; it's estimated they were putting out thousands of black market THC vials a day. Investigators finally got one of the youths to rat on their source.

 

[bombastinator]

Personally, I think it is just a coincidence. The FDA and politicians were about to ban ecig flavors (kids vape for flavors BS) and then hospitalizatons and deaths occur from "vaping" (nevermind they were all vaping black market THC). Just turned up the intensity to ban flavors, and possibly ban vape gear.

Could well be. It’s not a thought I particularly liked and it feels a bit tinfoil Hattish. I appreciate the input.

 

[Sloth Tonight]

NY and NJ aren't on the list of legalized states, but I do think there's something to what you're thinking though. I mean, the patchwork has created a situation for the black market to thrive. Dealers can probably profit a lot more off of those carts than otherwise, and being able to camouflage them as licensed products - bingo. At the very least, those carts are easier to smuggle. I don't think the carts were a thing before 2012, though I could be wrong on that.

I don't agree with the notion that blame should fall on legal cannabis, though you're not per se stating that it does. But if this were the other way around and e-cigs had been illegal for decades, then states started legalizing them and we saw an explosion of flavored products in those states (for example--let's pretend that in this scenario, flavored e-liquid wasn't a thing beforehand), then the black market started cutting the e-liquid with something dangerous and disguising it as licensed products, I wouldn't think blame lies upon the legal e-cigs -- but I would think that the patchwork created an opportunity for the black market to thrive.

Maybe not the most eloquent example, but it's all I got. I'm a sloth afterall, and I'm heading to bed.

 

[englishmick]

I guess there's a lot of moving parts in this story. Lot of people with a lot to lose and a lot to gain. I doubt it's a major factor but if the legal pot people can shift the blame a bit that is definitely in their interests. The States where it's going on are making a bunch of money in taxes. Gotta think.

 

[bombastinator]

NY and NJ aren't on the list of legalized states, but I do think there's something to what you're thinking though. I mean, the patchwork has created a situation for the black market to thrive. Dealers can probably profit a lot more off of those carts than otherwise, and being able to camouflage them as licensed products - bingo. At the very least, those carts are easier to smuggle. I don't think the carts were a thing before 2012, though I could be wrong on that.

I don't agree with the notion that blame should fall on legal cannabis, though you're not per se stating that it does. But if this were the other way around and e-cigs had been illegal for decades, then states started legalizing them and we saw an explosion of flavored products in those states (for example--let's pretend that in this scenario, flavored e-liquid wasn't a thing beforehand), then the black market started cutting the e-liquid with something dangerous and disguising it as licensed products, I wouldn't think blame lies upon the legal e-cigs -- but I would think that the patchwork created an opportunity for the black market to thrive.

Maybe not the most eloquent example, but it's all I got. I'm a sloth afterall, and I'm heading to bed.

If it is the actual issue fixing it would be complex. There’s a lot of technology in a cigarette tax stamp, and they’re not cheap to do. Carts would have to be very carefully and uniquely manufactured. They’d have to get the US mint people and the ATF involved to create a difficult to imitate container or seal, and it would probably have to be something shared amongst the patchwork of states because it would have to be something a random teen could recognize. Plus China would basically have to agree to help because they make everything now. Difficult problem.

 

[zoiDman]

NY and NJ aren't on the list of legalized states, but I do think there's something to what you're thinking though. I mean, the patchwork has created a situation for the black market to thrive. ...

Absolutely.

It might not be Legal in NY or NJ, but if I can simply drive to Vermont or Massachusetts where I can Buy Product/Supplies with less (or even little) concern of Prosecution, I now have a Simply Supply Chain.

A Lot easier than bringing it Up from a Southern Border. Or going thru a Shipping Port.

 

[iowajosh]

I think this is real. A few states legalized the sale. Then the epidemic begins shortly after. The problem could be from a very indirect source.

 

[vaper1960]

It's legal here in California, but we have had legal medicinal for years, and people here are very educated and smart about these things. You can also grow a limited number of plants. Edibles are also very popular.
I'm very curious about the e-bay thing... can you actually get those carts that way? That scares the heck out of me.
Honestly, this whole situation just makes me sick. I miss when we actually had better things to discuss around here!

 

[bombastinator]

Absolutely.

It might not be Legal in NY or NJ, but if I can simply drive to Vermont or Massachusetts where I can Buy Product/Supplies with less (or even little) concern of Prosecution, I now have a Simply Supply Chain.

A Lot easier than bringing it Up from a Southern Border. Or going thru a Shipping Port.

True but you have to pay taxes. Big ones. Same problem as counterfeit cigarettes, but every state border and freeway is now a port.

 

[bombastinator]

It's legal here in California, but we have had legal medicinal for years, and people here are very educated and smart about these things. You can also grow a limited number of plants. Edibles are also very popular.
I'm very curious about the e-bay thing... can you actually get those carts that way? That scares the heck out of me.
Honestly, this whole situation just makes me sick. I miss when we actually had better things to discuss around here!

I do too. Politics is bad for me. Plus dead kids. It’s just a big pile of awful.

 

[zoiDman]

True but you have to pay taxes. Big ones. Same problem as counterfeit cigarettes, but every state border and freeway is now a port.

Taxes?



I Don't think you Understand the Concept here.

 

[bombastinator]

Taxes?



I Don't think you Understand the Concept here.

It was my understanding that the various legalization states take huge taxes. It’s why the stuff is so expensive. Sure it’s more expensive to grow than say, corn, because it has to be grown indoors, requires a lot of hand care and is often cloned, but a crop is still a crop. A bushel is a unit of volume equal to about 8 gallons of water. Corn has gone for vaguely between $3.50-$4.50 per bushel lately. It’s a lot bigger than a gram.

 

[zoiDman]

It was my understanding that the various legalization states take huge taxes. It’s why the stuff is so expensive. Sure it’s more expensive to grow than say, corn, because it has to be grown indoors, requires a lot of hand care and is often cloned, but a crop is still a crop. A bushel is a unit of volume equal to about 8 gallons of water. Corn has gone for vaguely between $3.50-$4.50 per bushel lately. It’s a lot bigger than a gram.

Lets just say what I was referring to is Not exactly Regulated Taxed Sales.

If you want to go Into it more, why don't you Create a Thread here...

General Cannabis Discussion

That's why that Sub-Form was created.

 

[ruet]

i was reading Another seemingly misleading article and something occurred to me tertiarily.

This dead kids thing isn’t just the biggest e-cigarette problem of the moment, it’s ALSO the biggest legalized cannabis problem of the moment as well. People are dying because they’re buying fake drugs they think are from legal sources.

What if this whole thing is an attempt to shift blame FROM legal cannabis TO e-cigarettes? Are all of the fast moving politicians from states that recently legalized? BT would have a big thing to gain because they kill two birds. They’re heavily heavily invested in legalized cannibis AND they hate ecigs.

Just a thought. Might be worthless. Thought I’d throw it out there though. Maul away. I’m interested to see what’s wrong with it.

IMO... ...Occam's razor.

 

[Uncle Willie]

i was reading Another seemingly misleading article and something occurred to me tertiarily.

This dead kids thing isn’t just the biggest e-cigarette problem of the moment, it’s ALSO the biggest legalized cannabis problem of the moment as well. People are dying because they’re buying fake drugs they think are from legal sources.

What if this whole thing is an attempt to shift blame FROM legal cannabis TO e-cigarettes? Are all of the fast moving politicians from states that recently legalized? BT would have a big thing to gain because they kill two birds. They’re heavily heavily invested in legalized cannibis AND they hate ecigs.

Just a thought. Might be worthless. Thought I’d throw it out there though. Maul away. I’m interested to see what’s wrong with it.

I don't understand .. are you suggesting that the Cannabis folks are intentionally getting shills to peddle lethal liquid .. ?? Or the BT folks .. ??

 

[bombastinator]

I don't understand .. are you suggesting that the Cannabis folks are intentionally getting shills to peddle lethal liquid .. ?? Or the BT folks .. ??

No. I’m suggesting that one of the big problems of illegal drugs is that there is precious little quality assurance. Legal cannibis is creating an available method of quality assurance, so street dealers are capitalizing on it to move bad dangerous product no one would normally willingly buy at higher prices by disguising it as legal cannabis. This one only works is cases of “some dude on the street” sales though.

There’s also a separate issue of vitamin e being used somehow. I’m not real clear on how that even worked. I’m only familiar with how nicotine ejuice is formulated. I don’t know how vitamin e could even BE used in nicotine e-cigarettes. All the normal and safe ingredients are cheaper than vitamin e so there’s no reason to do it.

 

[Uncle Willie]

No. I’m suggesting that one of the big problems of illegal drugs is that there is precious little quality assurance. Legal cannibis is creating an available method of quality assurance, so street dealers are capitalizing on it to move bad dangerous product no one would normally willingly buy at higher prices by disguising it as legal cannabis. This one only works is cases of “some dude on the street” sales though.

Whether legal or illegal, the goal of the seller is to maintain their Customer Base .. as with any Business .. in my experience, no one wants to kill off paying customers .. they want them to hang around and keep buying ..

In addition, commercially available and legal THC extraction equipment has been available for a while .. the Victims of the Lung Issues, according to the Wisconsin arrests, were subjected to THC levels in excess of 150 times the stated label potency .. that potency did not come off the shelf at a Dispensary or Shop ..

The Best Cannabis Extraction Methods for Marijuana Concentrates

IMO, the growth of the commonality of vaping as seen by the public at large has emboldened users to toke wherever / whenever, where previously, whipping out a b/o/n/g or a joint was frowned upon, kind of like tipping back a bottle of Jack while sitting on a park bench .. thus, increased use of high concentration THC == recipe for disaster ..

 

[bombastinator]

Whether legal or illegal, the goal of the seller is to maintain their Customer Base .. as with any Business .. in my experience, no one wants to kill off paying customers .. they want them to hang around and keep buying ..

assumes two things:
1. That they know concoction they are selling is actually deadly.
2. That the goal of repeat sales trumps quick profit in every single case. In practice it’s probably quite variable. There are whole industries such as used car sales where it is largely ignored. I suspect in this case it’s perhaps situational. Is this customer someone you will even be able to find again to make a repeat sale to? is one point where such a drive breaks down. How bad do you need the money? is another. Do you even like the guy and want to do business with them again? is a third.

In addition, commercially available and legal THC extraction equipment has been available for a while .. the Victims of the Lung Issues, according to the Wisconsin arrests, were subjected to THC levels in excess of 150 times the stated label potency .. that potency did not come off the shelf at a Dispensary or Shop ..

which is my point. It’s apparently stuff that isn’t from dispensaries pretending that it IS.

The Best Cannabis Extraction Methods for Marijuana Concentrates

IMO, the growth of the commonality of vaping as seen by the public at large has emboldened users to toke wherever / whenever, where previously, whipping out a b/o/n/g or a joint was frowned upon, kind of like tipping back a bottle of Jack while sitting on a park bench .. thus, increased use of high concentration THC == recipe for disaster ..

 

[Baditude]

No. I’m suggesting that one of the big problems of illegal drugs is that there is precious little quality assurance. Legal cannibis is creating an available method of quality assurance, so street dealers are capitalizing on it to move bad dangerous product no one would normally willingly buy at higher prices by disguising it as legal cannabis. This one only works is cases of “some dude on the street” sales though.

There’s also a separate issue of vitamin e being used somehow. I’m not real clear on how that even worked. I’m only familiar with how nicotine ejuice is formulated. I don’t know how vitamin e could even BE used in nicotine e-cigarettes. All the normal and safe ingredients are cheaper than vitamin e so there’s no reason to do it.

My perspective on the THC Vape health issues (cannabis lab director) : electronic_cigarette