Why does the eGo-C get such a bad rap on this site?

[silentdoom]

This thread turned from why do eGo's get a bad rep to why others are all better? We don't care about VV, we have egos?! This might not 100% be the case, but if I NEEDED a VV, I would have spent 10X's the price right? You cannot compare Egos to provaris. I have a Camaro and I never compare it to a Lamborghini. I think its fair to say ego-c got a bad rep bc of the flavor loss and other factors of the Ego-t... a fair comparison. NO ONE can say the Twist wont give as good of a vape as a provari... Thats just dumb and not fair to judge something before you even have it in your hands..or mouth.(Unless it is about cosmetics). What if the Twist comes out for 1/8 of the price of a Provari and satisfies our nicotine desires just as well? Aren't most electronics smaller than when they first were released? Provari is honestly close to history. If you have to have two PV's, for any reason, somethings wrong. But now I start double thinking bc I have a iPhone AND iPad. I dont like taking my iPad everywhere because it doesnt fit in my pocket, so to each their own.

 

[silentdoom]

1500hp twin turbo and go 5.0 seconds in the 1\4 mile?

I hope it would get better than a 5.0 in the 1/4 hahahaha

 

[John D in CT]

"I don't believe Xw-Yw is the best for everyone. Taste is subjective".

There is something inherently flawed with that statement, at least as it pertains to this discussion, even though it is certainly true that taste is subjective. The flaw is this; you have never experienced the input required to formulate a subjective opinion on the taste of different juices at higher voltages. Your implication is that it is solely subjectivity that prompts me to say that flavor is "better" (in most cases) at higher coil wattages than a 3.4V Joyetech battery can provide. That is a little like saying that it's strictly subjective, with little or no relationship to the subjective opinions of others experiencing the same sensory input, that I prefer to be hit gently on the head with a hammer rather than harder. Just as I think that most people would say that being hit on the head with a hammer gently feels better than being hit hard, I also think that the vast majority of people would say that their vaping experience is better when their juice is being warmed by the coils of an atomizer to the point that the full flavor of the juice is most optimally released into the vape. Then, if you don't like that flavor, try a different one. At least you have experienced that flavor as closely as possible to how its creator probably intended it to taste.

"Another "rap" with the eGo-C is people pushing the LR attys on everyone yet not everyone likes them. Some people do like the 3.4v/SRs".

3.4 volts at 2.0 ohms yields 5.78 watts to a single coil. There might be some juices that taste "best" at that wattage, but I think they'd be few and far between. Again, by "best", I'm not just talking about my own opinion; I mean that if they vaped some juice at that wattage, and then vaped it at a higher voltage that releases more flavor, that they would like it better. Again, much of it would involve not having known what they were missing. And again, it does seem to me to be the rare juice that tastes better at 3.4V/2.0 ohms (single coil) than at 3.4V/1.5 ohms (single coil). Perhaps the people you're referring to who "don't like LR" were using dual coil atomizers that dropped the wattage of each individual coil even lower than what they were getting on a 2.0 single coil. I do believe that the Joyetech attys are single coil, so that might explain that.

There's obviously a lot to this, and frankly, a lot of people don't understand all of the physics that goes into it, or even what exactly it is that they're vaping on, right down to the fine details that go into the physics of an optimum vape. I know I didn't, although I'm beginning to.

One last thing; I hope you don't mind my playing amateur psychologist, because I'm about to. I found this interesting:

"What I want with variable is to try to taste a tasteless juice I have ..... I'm guessing the melon and orange I have will be getting vaped at the same low setting I'm locked into now because I like them as they are".

You don't yet know what they're going to taste like at what I think will be a more optimum wattage, yet you're already guessing that you won't prefer it, having never tried it.

Something to ponder. And lest you think I'm judging you, I'm not. I have a lot to ponder myself, and my main purpose in saying any of this is to maximize the enjoyment of your vaping experience, and that of anyone reading this. I think we all need to be open to new things, and new experiences. We might just find out that what we thought was great wasn't as great as it could be.

 

[Switched]

I remember one post where the person was complaining about batteries falling apart. Same thread bragging about getting a PT for $14.

They did where? I want me one of those so I can complain too

 

[Chris77]

OP here-

I think most all of us are on the same page, and I've learned a lot from those who've chimed in. Thank you!

The regulars here are clearly enthusiasts, or hobbyist, or whatever label you feel is best- most of us (even guys like me who are just 50 days in but went crazy from the get-go) have more than a few PVs and batteries to play with, a variety of different atomizers, cartomizers, clearomizers and probably a gallon of juice that we may or may not even get to

That's all fine, there's obviously a huge market for people like us and I'm glad there is, BUT...

The average person posting in the "Newbie" forum who is ready to make the switch often asks for the exact same things:

1) I want something the exact same size as a cigarette
2) I want the same throat hit as a cigarette
3) I want lots of vapor
4) I want it to taste just like a X brand cigarettes
5) I want something the has the same or better draw as a cigarette
6) I don't want to have to constantly tinker with it or deal with lots of problems...

My response to people starting with respect to the eGo-C, trying not to impart my own subjective preferences:

1) The technology just isn't there yet to give a good vape in this form factor. Go buy your V2 or Blu, and we'll see you in a few days when you're sick of the reduced battery life, reduced power, filling (or worse yet, buying pre-filled) cartos, etc.. The *Go sized mods are the next step up and are a fair trade off. Not claiming the eGo-C battery is by any means excellent (again, I like the KGO) but it beats the socks off any cigarette sized KR8 or 510 I've used.

2) Juice, juice, juice! The throat hit is not the same as an analog. Who hasn't seen a pack a day smoker cough on their first drag of a PV? It takes some getting used to. You'll get fine TH from most PVs recommended on this forum, and the TH from PG suspended nicotine sure seems to satisfy most- but IMO (and I'm curious to hear who thinks this is a subjective statement) I think it mostly comes down to the juice in the 3.4V - 3.7V range.

3) Again, juice, juice, juice! The eGo-C produces plumes of vapor with most of the juices I enjoy, including 50/50, 60/40, and 70/30 blends.

4) Sorry, ain't going to happen. You're not combusting anymore, you're vaping. And within a day or two you'll probably prefer one or more e-juice flavors to your ashy analogs. How remarkable is that?! To top it off, you'll start getting your sense of taste and smell back, so you may not even know what you like or dislike for the first week or two of vaping.

5) Just like the throat hit, the draw is slightly different, but you will adapt and it will be more than enough to satisfy your urge to suck. Besides, the draw on a typical PV sure beats the socks off your typical "light" or "ultra-light" cigarette.

6) The eGo-C delivery will be fine. The only thing you'll have to adjust to is using a blunt tip needle to fill a few cartridges for the day. ** Edit ** Come to find out, the the cap on the cartridge pops right off, no real need for a needle, but it does make refilling potentially less messy.

As an added note, I think the HH.357 is a really cool atomizer. I also think vaping at 5V on a LR Boge does wonders for some juices. But, there is no way I'm going to recommend that a new vaper go out and buy a big battery mod and a $22 atomizer- it's just not necessary and I'd be afraid of intimidating someone by doing this. Once you're comfortable with your eGo-C (or whatever...) then sure, go grab a Lavatube or a Provari and some cool LR atomizers and experience the of bliss direct dripping on the best the industry has to offer.

What's great about the eGo's is that, though it may not be the most powerful battery, it works as a great intermediate mod for the soon-to-be enthusiast. Want to try a cartomizer? No problem, screw it in. Want to direct drip? Go right ahead. Want to try a tanked carto? Grab yourself a smoktech. Clearomizer? Sure, it'll fit perfectly.

For me, I keep coming back to their cartridge system- even at 3.4V it works just fine for this former PAD smoker of 18 years.

 

[Switched]

Folks that want and need to play Tim the tool man Taylor should come back and review this thread and comment after they have been around the block a few times wrt more power. In my learned experience there are very few juices that shine above 8-9 watts yet folks are seeking 12 +. Get rid of the eby jibes that plague you (nicotine withdrawal) and you will settle in quite nicely around 6-8mg and 7-8 watts. But dont' take my word for it

 

[Myk]

One last thing; I hope you don't mind my playing amateur psychologist, because I'm about to. I found this interesting:

"What I want with variable is to try to taste a tasteless juice I have ..... I'm guessing the melon and orange I have will be getting vaped at the same low setting I'm locked into now because I like them as they are".

You don't yet know what they're going to taste like at what I think will be a more optimum wattage, yet you're already guessing that you won't prefer it, having never tried it.

Something to ponder. And lest you think I'm judging you, I'm not. I have a lot to ponder myself, and my main purpose in saying any of this is to maximize the enjoyment of your vaping experience, and that of anyone reading this. I think we all need to be open to new things, and new experiences. We might just find out that what we thought was great wasn't as great as it could be.

I can get a good guess from other people saying a hotter coil doesn't help fruit.
I can also get a good guess from making beer and knowing when to say a recipe has been tweaked enough. Sometimes "different" tastes better but when put to a side by side you find it wasn't better, it was just different.

I did say I was guessing not positive.
I can make that guess because if the Orange gets any stronger I wouldn't like it as much. If it gets muted I know I wouldn't like it because it was muted in the 4072s and tobacco flavors stood out too much.
The melon isn't too heavy or too light, the menthol blends just right (it overpowered in the 4072s). I'm sure changing the wattage will change something so I can guess that since I think it's perfect as it is any change won't be for the better. However with the melon I'm more open because it could bring some of the other flavors forward, but I'm pretty sure the Orange will not be better at higher voltage.

 

[John D in CT]

"No different to me then buying a new car, could I replace the enging with a 1500hp twin turbo and go 5.0 seconds in the 1\4 mile? yea but why would I do that if what I have is working as intended".

A better analogy would be that you have a new car that can't keep up with the speed limit on all hills.

"This thread turned from why do eGo's get a bad rep to why others are all better? We don't care about VV, we have egos?!"

While many are better in what I think are specific, important ways, all the others are not all better in all ways. The eGo-C "works", and even the nice slim battery, fill a nice little niche. If you don't care about VV, great. (That said, I hope you try the Twist).

"NO ONE can say the Twist wont give as good of a vape as a provari... Thats just dumb"
As I think I said, it will give as good a vape as a ProVari on certain flavors at certain ohms.

"Provari is honestly close to history".

I don't think that's at all accurate.

"If you have to have two PV's, for any reason, somethings wrong".

I have a car, a van, and a truck. They all serve different purposes, each in its own particular way.

"But now I start double thinking bc I have a iPhone AND iPad. I dont like taking my iPad everywhere because it doesnt fit in my pocket"

Right; and for stealth vaping, I love my eGo.

"I also think vaping at 5V on a LR Boge does wonders for some juices".

Me 2.

"Folks that want and need to play Tim the tool man Taylor should come back and review this thread and comment after they have been around the block a few times"

I have been around the block a few times, and I resent the association with Tim the Tool Man, who sought power for its own sake, with little regard for whether or not it served a useful purpose. 8,000+ posts doesn't give you the right to insult me. That is a violation of the forum rules.

 

[John D in CT]

"I can get a good guess from other people saying a hotter coil doesn't help fruit".

It depends on whether or not increasing the heat from what you're at now is going to improve the taste for you, or worsen it. If you're at exactly the coil temperature that you're going to ultimately find optimum; great, but unlikely. If you need to go up or down, you could do that with the Twist and find the sweet spot, assuming it's not more watts than it can put out. It probably won't be, because I've heard it said more than a few times that fruits don't need as much power as darker, heavier juices.

It's like when people categorically state that "cutting taxes is good". it depends on what the existing rate is. It used to be 90% on income. Yeah, that's too high. Now I think the top rate is about 3.6 percentage points too low.

I'm sure changing the wattage will change something so I can guess that since I think it's perfect as it is any change won't be for the better. However with the melon I'm more open because it could bring some of the other flavors forward, but I'm pretty sure the Orange will not be better at higher voltage.

Again, I'm wondering if you'll find it even "more perfect" if you try it at a higher wattage. It won't necessarily make it objectionably overpowering; there's a good chance it will bring out subtle taste sensations that you didn't even know the juice was capable of, and that you might just happen to like better than the way it tastes now.

How will you know until you try it?

 

[Chris77]

It's like when people categorically state that "cutting taxes is good". it depends on what the existing rate is. It used to be 90% on income. Yeah, that's too high. Now I think the top rate is about 3.6 percentage points too low.

Ha! And I was just thinking, what this thread needs right now is a little politics! Because we can all agree on that!

--

Flavor, taste, "perfection" in the same sense- it's all subjective. No need to bicker over that. Case in point, one of my favorite juices is Boba's (yes, I know it's hyped a bit, but I like it..) - but I prefer it on a Joyetech SR atty at 3.9V on my Provari. Sure, I can up the voltage and throw on a LR Boge and bring out some more flavor- don't like it. I can even drop the voltage and drip it on an HH.357 and bring out tons more flavor- really don't like it, straight up tastes like an almond cookie to me.

In this particular case, I prefer the taste to be slightly "muted" as one might put it.

 

[Myk]

6) I don't want to have to constantly tinker with it or deal with lots of problems...

That was my thing for picking the eGo-C.

With the 4072s a little too much juice and it leaked out of both ends, on your fingers and in your mouth. A little too little and it was extremely bad dry burns. I hated having to constantly wipe it down, add to the cart and rinse my mouth out especially when in public. It was enough to make me rather smoke (so I did).

I know people claim eGo-Cs are leaking all the time but I really don't see how that is possible with one that came from the same factory as mine did. So it fills up the cone if you draw too hard for the thickness of the juice, when it gets to be too much it goes into the atty, if it gets into the battery connection it gets sucked back into the atty. It eventually gets vaped up until you have a few drops in the atty (I've tailpiped and tested this).
I've seen claims of them spitting, I don't see how that's possible unless they were tipping it back to take a drink.
It could come out of the battery connection but I haven't seen that yet and again I'd think even with an actual leak (as opposed to flooding, which I think most "leaks" are) you'd end up sucking it back into the atty and cone before it got that full. It's not coming out of the battery button if it's a Joyetech unless a seal is messed up.

So you have a full cone. You don't have to tinker with it right then and there, it can wait until you're changing tanks and you're wiping stuff down anyway.
I don't think completely tinker free is ever going to happen with trying to get air to pass through while at the same time holding liquid. The eGo-C is as tinker free as I expect.

And then there's the part of being able to throw other things on top, that was another selling point. If I didn't like the cone and tank I could always change it a lot cheaper than buying another kit or mod.

 

[Myk]

A better analogy would be that you have a new car that can't keep up with the speed limit on all hills.

Hey now, don't be dissing my '67 VW Bus
I made up for it going down hills.

 

[John D in CT]

Ha! And I was just thinking, what this thread needs right now is a little politics! Because we can all agree on that!

--

Flavor, taste, "perfection" in the same sense- it's all subjective. No need to bicker over that. Case in point, one of my favorite juices is Boba's (yes, I know it's hyped a bit, but I like it..) - but I prefer it on a Joyetech SR atty at 3.9V on my Provari. Sure, I can up the voltage and throw on a LR Boge and bring out some more flavor- don't like it. I can even drop the voltage and drip it on an HH.357 and bring out tons more flavor- really don't like it, straight up tastes like an almond cookie to me.

In this particular case, I prefer the taste to be slightly "muted" as one might put it.

Yeah, I thought this thread was getting a little sleepy, so I thought some politics would help wake it up. Let's change that to "some say" the top rate is a little too low.

Chris, your post just helps to me summarize what I'm trying to say in this thread, not a single word of which I would change. Variable voltage is the only way to maximize your vaping experience, and it doesn't cost all that much. Not when you consider what we used to spend on stinkies. No constant voltage device will provide as much enjoyment of a wide variety of flavors as variable voltage. It just will not and cannot. To disagree with that is to say that all flavors are best at the exact same power level, which I don't think can be supported.

Your vape rate now is "good enough" for you? Fantastic. Is it "the best it could be", as judged by your very own taste buds, connected to an open mind? Extremely unlikely. Not when variable voltage lets you fine-tune any flavor of any PG/VG ratio at various liquid-to-atty feed rates on any resistance of atomizer on any kind of "works". It's just physically impossible, or at the very least, about as unlikely as being mauled by a polar bear and a regular bear both in the same day.

IMO the Twist will accomplish this better than an eGo battery, a ProVari will do it better than a Twist for a wide range of atomizer resistances or for dual coils of any resistance except for maybe some of the lighter flavors, and on paper, a Smoktech VMax will do all of it better than a ProVari.

 

[Chris77]

Well, I'm not going to disagree with you- and that's because I fully agree with you.

I think the first step though is to get current smokers acclimated to personal vaporizers. This sort of rhetoric (debating the merits of VV devices, HR vs. LR atomizers, etc..) is all fine and well for enthusiasts like us.

Most smokers just want a fuss-free way to quit. Of all the gear I've yet to try (from cigarette-sized KR8s to bottom feeders to big boy mods) I think the easiest to just get going with, to escape the carcinogens and nasties is the eGo-C. Yes, that's an opinion, but I can back it up with a fair amount of objectivity.

Telling someone who is a flick of a lighter away from their nicotine fix to get a device that looks like it would please even the most demanding of woman, and screw a $22 357 atomizer (or whatever) into it, then press the button five times, then pause, then press it until it reads 5.6 (or whatever) then drip two drops, put a drip tip on, take 3-5 puffs and repeat -- well, it seems an unnecessary barrier to present when you can grab everything you need for $80 and be well on your way with something that fits in your shirt pocket.

After that, then we can pitch the variable voltage devices and high end atomizers, and tanked systems and such, and emphasize the advantages that these combinations have on juices.

"Good enough" got me off analogs. In my world, that's nothing short of spectacular.

--

Before this thread I wasn't aware of the Twist or the VMax, both look interesting.

If the Twist is the same approximate size of an eGo battery, I'll be curious to see its lifespan at voltages above 3.7.

As for the VMax, "two specially designed" batteries is a concern. I'd hate to get stuck with proprietary batteries in a mod, and I thought we weren't supposed to stack?

 

[John D in CT]

Well, I'm not going to disagree with you- and that's because I fully agree with you.

*** You take that back! LOL

I think the first step though is to get current smokers acclimated to personal vaporizers. This sort of rhetoric (debating the merits of VV devices, HR vs. LR atomizers, etc..) is all fine and well for enthusiasts like us.

*** I think that anyone of average intelligence can comprehend this, and would be well-served to know from the get-go just how enjoyable vaping can be, and that leads us right back to variable voltage, or at least as high above 3.4V (constant) as you can get. And you can get a Lava Mini for $48, plus $18 for two 18340 li batteries. Dialing in the voltage is not complicated.

Most smokers just want a fuss-free way to quit. Of all the gear I've yet to try (from cigarette-sized KR8s to bottom feeders to big boy mods) I think the easiest to just get going with, to escape the carcinogens and nasties is the eGo-C. Yes, that's an opinion, but I can back it up with a fair amount of objectivity.

*** Better (yes, better) battery than the Joyetech + 5 stainless steel XL single coil 1.5 cartos + Smoktech DCT tank with one of those carto in it + eGo-C "works" = great start. Or an e-Power 14650 for the power source. Or the 5 volt Woo, with protected batteries. I just do not and will not recommend a Joyetech battery for anyone. Sorry thread.

Telling someone who is a flick of a lighter away from their nicotine fix to get a device that looks like it would please even the most demanding of woman, and screw a $22 357 atomizer (or whatever) into it, then press the button five times, then pause, then press it until it reads 5.6 (or whatever) then drip two drops, put a drip tip on, take 3-5 puffs and repeat -- well, it seems an unnecessary barrier to present when you can grab everything you need for $80 and be well on your way with something that fits in your shirt pocket.

*** DCT tanks are even more convenient, but bulkier. That's why I always tell people to get an eGo-C upgrade kit as part of their kit. They fill a great niche.

After that, then we can pitch the variable voltage devices and high end atomizers, and tanked systems and such, and emphasize the advantages that these combinations have on juices.

*** I prefer to just tell them what I really think they should get. One beginner last night got a Lavatube for her first PV, and will be vaping like few other people who have participated in this thread. Sorry again thread.

"Good enough" got me off analogs. In my world, that's nothing short of spectacular.

*** Again, there are a lot better batteries than eGo's, and they're just as easy to buy. Why not start with something better than the Joyetech battery, that costs the same or less? (To recap: a Smoktech 14650 takes replaceable batteries, is 3.7 volts vs. 3.4, and has a replaceable switch as well).

--

Before this thread I wasn't aware of the Twist or the VMax, both look interesting.

*** For sure.

If the Twist is the same approximate size of an eGo battery, I'll be curious to see its lifespan at voltages above 3.7.

*** Not fantastic. Transforming volts up puts quite a draw on a battery And make that 3.4, its native voltage IIRC.

As for the VMax, "two specially designed" batteries is a concern. I'd hate to get stuck with proprietary batteries in a mod, and I thought we weren't supposed to stack?

*** They are not at all proprietary. That's just marketing hype. They're off-the-shelf 18350's. And the VMax right out of the box would be almost completely EMSS-compliant, and very likely very, very safe as long as it really did come with protected batteries. Milling some slots in the case would make it 100% compliant.

Lastly, regardless of what anyone thinks the "purpose" of this thread is, I'm still free to say whatever I want about Joyetch batteries, as long as I obey the Forum rules of conduct. If my opinions offend, that is not their intent.

****

*** Edit: I think this "John D" guy needs many drinks to kill the bug he has up his .... ***

 

[Riffy]

What I want with variable is to try to taste a tasteless juice I have. Maybe kill some of the coconut and bring out the pineapple in one I don't like (but I would settle for just killing the coconut). Adjust a tobacco flavor I have to be a little less heavy.
I'm guessing the melon and orange I have will be getting vaped at the same low setting I'm locked into now because I like them as they are.

Same type thing here. I have mostly fruits & desert flavors. They seem like some need more some need less power. That's my main reason for wanting a VV batt. I'm so excited about the twist. I've heard so many bad things about the other VV unless they're the really expensive ones.

Some of the flavors really do take awhile before they bloom into something good.

 

[Chris77]

@John - I don't think anyone here will question your freedom to speak your mind, and I'm certainly not accusing you of hijacking- it's been an interesting discussion!

It wasn't my original intent to get into a battery discussion; the stock 650mAh eGo's are certainly not my favorite. However, I think they work well enough for most and the form factor may not be as off-putting or someone who's looking to get something the better approximates an analog, such as a cigarillo. For people who are comfortable toting a 14650 or an 18650, I say go for a nice VV!

The Twist sounds like it will be a most welcome addition, I hope the duration of charge meets expectation! Perhaps one day we'll see advances in batteries that make VV KR8/510 batteries with significantly better performance; that combined with a miniaturized (though elongated to accommodate enough liquid) eGo "works" would be great to see too!

I am very happy to that most (all?) of us seem to agree that the eGo-C "works" (liquid delivery system) isn't somehow inherently flawed. I'd still like to see it offered as a solution more frequently to people just getting started. It's my own personal opinion that it is a better delivery mechanism (more flavor, less fuss) than either the cartomizer (tanked or untanked), the clearomizer, or the polyfill/foam cartridges.

That is all

 

[kaysesoze]

UPDATE !!!

had my first leak today. Not sure what caused it but im sure i can narrow it down.
I went away from filling the tank with my filling needle ( i leave that at home when i go to work ), so i was popping the bottom capp off the tank and filling it that way. - not sure if this caused it, some people say that will cause it, but i dont believe it..

Had the Ego C in my pocket while walking around on the car lot - didnt leak out the tip so that might not be it..

When i would use the Ego-c, i would hear the drowning sound, like a milkshake bottom of the cup. - I think i may have been pulling too hard on the tip when vapin -- THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH LEAKAGE.. flooding the atomizer with air suction and liquid running out the tank and on and in the atomizer..

could be the blend i was using, i tried using a 100vg juice ( menthol ) and not sure about that..

but i took my Ego apart, took the atomizer out, and liquid was all in the base of it, set it on a napkin ( all while at work ) and let the ejuice drain out.. put it back together and its working like a champ again.. SOFT PULLS THIS TIME and no issues.. will report back if it happens again.

 

[Myk]

I use 100% PG free with no problem. There's no single thickness related to whether they are PG or not. My worst problem is with the thinner juices and have been related to drawing.

 

[Chris77]

Hey now, is this thread still alive?

@kaysesoze: Do you put your teeth on it and pull? I wasn't even aware the bottom of the cartridge came off!

@Myk: I haven't been able to get Boba's to wick well enough to use on the eGo system, but for others who might be experiencing problems with 100% VG juices, I've read that adding a drop or two of distilled water helps.