Why don't we have a Kayfun (any version, originals and clones) owners group?

[sedition]

Just finished my second attempt - torched the twisted pair prior to wrapping the coil, which made a noticeable different, more malleable. Still a little spring left in the coil as I was positioning it on the posts. On my next attempt I'll have a propane torch, thinking about a simple wrapping jig that will allow me to wrap the coil around stainless steel rod, anchor both ends, then torch the coil again on the rod prior to putting it in the posts.

Should probably mention this is on an Origin V2 rda - I use that as a test-bed for ideas before they go on the KF3.1. The result was 1.3 ohm, takes ages to ramp up (good or bad depending on your preference), RipTripper said the same thing. One positive on a rda is that the burnt taste won't sneak up on you - you can taste it coming when you need to refill.

 

[tchavei]

You won't have much luck torching the coil on a steel rod... The heat will be transferred to the rod and the coil will only start to glow when the rod is hot enough by itself so you're just wasting energy. Worse is that it will take ages to cool down and you will grab it and burn your fingers rod shape like... Now ask me how I know that


Regards
Tony

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[vapdivrr]

Tried a twisted 28g last night, really interested in how durable it looks. Twisting with the drill was super easy, but I had trouble getting the 10 wrap macro coil in place without it unfurling. Do you guys torch the twisted strand prior to wrapping it around the drill bit/toothpick?

personally I anneal any coil I do first especially twisted 32g. heat the wire then make wraps. as always I make at least twice the wraps needed then, while coil is still on bit I take a pliers and pull on on lead to spin off some of the wraps I made. I then do the same on the other lead. I like doing this because usually the middle wraps are the best, also by pulling on the leads, it sort of tightens up the wraps a little even though you are removing some of them. once I have the intended wraps I hold with tweezers and torch the coil. once cooled I install back on drill bit and while holding one lead stable, I pull on the other lead to tighten as much as possible. I do this on both leads. once again I tweezer and torch, at this point the twisted 32g is pretty tight and stable.

 

[tchavei]

Well... What's with this group? Did you all sell your kayfuns?

Little heads up: don't buy the quartz nano kits. Unless you vaping tanks crackers it's not worth the hassle.
The best solution for my are either the ehpro nano tanks (full plastic from top to bottom) or those with two shortened steel rings and stock polycarbonate plastic.

Aesthetically, I prefer the latter.

The problem with the quartz tanks is that the distance between the inner lip if the metal rings and the center bottom of the chimney is too narrow. For a leakless refill you either have to use a seringe needle or go extremely slowly... A 20 second refill while walking down the street became a major hassle evolving cleanex tissues and blowing through the air hole...
Bah, my juices don't appear to be tank crackers but even if some of them are, a new polycarbonate clear glass is less than a couple of bucks.


Regards
Tony

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[sedition]

Are you using the right chimney top, Tony? From memory one of the websites that sells them also sells the longer hat piece, and notes that you need the right size for the nano quartz kit.

 

[tchavei]

Yes. I actually have two nano sized ones and one is taller than the other. The leaking during a refill isn't happening on the top of the chimney where the o ring is. I also thought initially that that might be the problem but isn't.

The actual problem is that there is very little space near the base of the atty and the metal outer ring... If you refill normally, the juice gets trapped on the rim and flows directly into the juice channels and then out through the drip tip.

I confirmed this by plugging the chimney. Not a drop came out but the chamber was flooded to the top. So a poor connection between the chimney and the top cap was excluded.

If you have the alternative nano kit (two metal rings with the stock plastic threaded tank) which is exactly the same height as the quartz kit, you don't have any issue because the inner lip of the Rings are much smaller leaving a greater gap so the liquid is never forced into the channels.
I will take a pic when I finish this tank for better understanding.


Regards
Tony

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[tchavei]

Ok, in the name of science I chain vaped the tank to take some pics

1. Quartz kit. Notice the tiny space between the metal ring and the chamber. It's the same on the bottom. This doesn't let the liquid drain fast enough during a refill, forcing part of it directly into the juice channels

Here a pic of the tank

2. Using the alternative nano tank, you can see that the gap between the ring and the chamber is twice as big allowing the juice to escape freely down without flooding the channels

And here a pic of the tank

I hope this clears it better. Both are nano tanks and both have the same exact height and width. One is glas and the other polycarbonate.

Also notice that I'm using the bottom screw to refill so what's happening is while the tank is upside down. I do not top fill.


Regards
Tony

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[mt307]

try the expromizer

 

[tchavei]

try the expromizer

Why would I? Do they now make them in nano size?
My kayfun is working fine. The quartz kit also works but is much more of a hassle to fill, that's all. I don't use tank crackers so it's not a big deal. I still have it nano sized

Regards
Tony

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[MidwestGuy]

So after what seems like a hundred tries, I believe I've nailed my perfect Kayfun build ... this has been the one I've been using now for the last probably ~5 builds or so and I'm (finally) satisfied with it. I'm a little OCD when it comes to this stuff ... so finding something that is acceptable to me is ... relieving? I have a sense of closure now, which is what us OCD people really need when it comes to things like this!

Highlights:

• 5/64 drill bit, tight / close wraps of pre-torched 30gauge kanthal.
• 6 wraps, nets a 1.6-1.7ohm coil.
• After wrapping, squeeze together with finger nails while still on the bit (not easy after a fresh nail clipping ... plan accordingly.)
• Tug on the leads while still on the bit with needle nose to tighten the coil. Hold the coil tightly when doing this otherwise you'll unwrap it.
• Gently press the coil together with needle nose or ceramic tweezers and torch until it glows. Make sure the coil is even/straight between the tips of the needle nose/tweezers.
• Place back on 5/64 drill bit, tug at ends once more with needle nose/ceramic tweezers.
• While still on the drill bit, place on build deck perpendicular to the screws. Wrap a lead clockwise around screw, tighten screw.
• While making sure coil stays perpendicular, do the same to the other lead.
• With two tight leads and the drill bit still inserted inside the coil, gently position the coil so that it is directly over the air hole.
• For coil height, I like it as close to the air hole as possible without shorting.
• Fire the coil a few times, check for proper heating (inside-out). Squeeze together with needle nose or ceramic tweezers to make sure the coil is nice and tight (if using needle nose, make SURE you're not firing the coil while squeezing ... ceramic is OK.)
• Japanese organic cotton, typically comes in pads. Cut with the grain, 1/8" strip.
• My cotton is "four ply" ... I remove the outer strips, leaving two. Roll it with your fingers (don't twist it) to get them to bind together a bit better.
• Roll a small portion of one end tight so that you can fit it through the coil. Pull through the coil, it should almost freely move through the coil but still fill the coil completely with slight resistance. Center the cotton in the coil.
• Point the pieces upwards while placing the lower chimney section on.
• Cut the cotton so that the ends of the cotton are flush with the top edge of the lower chimney.
• Using your smallest flathead, push both sides of the cotton down and push it in towards the side of the deck. The tails of cotton should gently brush the bottom portion of the deck by the juice channel entry point on both sides.
• Juice the cotton well and test fire. Make sure it's firing properly.
• Use your small flathead again, make any final adjustments to the cotton (if necessary) ... I like to make sure I can still see the juice channel with the lower chimney on, but the cotton should be pretty close to it.
• Assemble the Kayfun. Fill with juice using the fill hole on the bottom. Once the juice reaches the top of the clear center piece, add a little bit more and call it quits (make sure there is a decent air pocket in there). Replace/tighten fill screw.
• Place on mod. Take a couple of very quick dry pulls on it with your finger covering the air hole to draw juice in to the chamber. Do this until you get some (slight) gurgling/flooding. Let sit for a few minutes so wick can get properly saturated.
• Vape away.

NOTES: This build works for me for 95% of my juices. Those with super high VG- (80% or more, I've found) do not work well. Doesn't matter what I do, I simply can't pull that thick stuff through fast enough, no matter how purple my face gets. I've quit using high VG in RTAs; they are RDA only now. They work, however chain vaping them will always give me dry burnt cotton hits after awhile (along with a purple face). The situation can be avoided by constant priming, but I often forget.

 

[tchavei]

Nice.

I do pretty much the same except for the cotton (using rayon) and placing the leads counterclockwise around the screws (I do it clockwise, I like physics helping me)


Regards
Tony

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[MidwestGuy]

Nice.

I do pretty much the same except for the cotton (using rayon) and placing the leads counterclockwise around the screws (I do it clockwise, I like physics helping me)

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Dangit! Edited again. No idea why I said counter clockwise ... hah. Definitely clockwise!

 

[tchavei]

Hehe... Somehow I thought you might have meant the opposite because it's a pain o tight down the leads ccw. I have no idea why so many pros do it the wrong way on all those YouTube videos... Maybe to make things look harder than they really are?

Since I got my ceramic tweezers, my coil building has improved greatly. I always did contact coils and they always looked fine but, with the ceramic tweezers, you can have them really perfect.. especially when doing parallel coils which always tend to drift apart and look irregular at best.

Regards
Tony

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[ForeverDiving]

Sorry for the AWOL spell. Sprained back.

Tapatalk Pro / Samsung Galaxy 4

 

[ForeverDiving]

Any tips on *which* nano kit will fit the Ehpro twin air intake KfL+v2? I got three from different vendors and none allows the top cap to screw in. Seems like the tank sections are too short by about 1mm each.

Tapatalk Pro / Samsung Galaxy 4

 

[ForeverDiving]

The coil conundrum...

Been experimenting like a madman the last few days with different coils. Apparently it all boils down to three target variables of which one is allways opposed to the others.
1. Heat capacity.
2. Glow speed.
3. Power.

A thin wire (higher resistance) will have less capacity and will be faster to glow. It will also demand a smaller & fragile coil.
Heavier wire will pass more current and use more power to heat. Lower voltage demands. It will be sluggish.

Thus, it's not about ohms.

Big Q': Best balance for... a) flavor, b) vapor, c) performance?

TIA for any ideas, apports, additions...

Tapatalk Pro / Samsung Galaxy 4

 

[tchavei]

Any tips on *which* nano kit will fit the Ehpro twin air intake KfL+v2? I got three from different vendors and none allows the top cap to screw in. Seems like the tank sections are too short by about 1mm each.

Tapatalk Pro / Samsung Galaxy 4

I have a ehpro and all nano kits fit. I also have three. I would stay away from the Pyrex though because it's a pain to refill without flooding the chamber. The full acrylic is good but will strip eventually. My best solution is to use the shorter metal rings (fasttech) and normal middle polycarbonate tank.
They all fit well on mine. Why do you say yours are too short? Is the chimney base hitting the top cap? You should be able to put any size on it as long as you have chimney tubes that are long enough to protrude past the o-ring in the top cap to avoid any leaks.

The coil conundrum...

Been experimenting like a madman the last few days with different coils. Apparently it all boils down to three target variables of which one is allways opposed to the others.
1. Heat capacity.
2. Glow speed.
3. Power.

A thin wire (higher resistance) will have less capacity and will be faster to glow. It will also demand a smaller & fragile coil.
Heavier wire will pass more current and use more power to heat. Lower voltage demands. It will be sluggish.

Thus, it's not about ohms.

Big Q': Best balance for... a) flavor, b) vapor, c) performance?

TIA for any ideas, apports, additions...

Tapatalk Pro / Samsung Galaxy 4

In regulated devices, what matters at the end is heated surface area. If you use thicker wire, you can create a bigger surface area at the same resistance of thinner wire but it will take longer to heat up unless you increase the power.

I've been happy with parallel coils using 32 gauge wire... You create a the surface area 30 percent larger than obetof a normal coil with 29 gauge at the same resistance and since the 32 gauge is thinner, it heats up quickly. If you make the coil with 2.5 mm id and 5 wraps with 2 wires side by side you end having 10 turns of heated surface at 1.2 Ohms

You can see such a coil here (zoom in the picture to see it better)

This one needs only 10w to heat up quickly.


Regards
Tony

Sent from my GT-I9195 through Tapatalk

 

[ForeverDiving]

I have a ehpro and all nano kits fit. I also have three. I would stay away from the Pyrex though because it's a pain to refill without flooding the chamber. The full acrylic is good but will strip eventually. My best solution is to use the shorter metal rings (fasttech) and normal middle polycarbonate tank.
They all fit well on mine. Why do you say yours are too short? Is the chimney base hitting the top cap? You should be able to put any size on it as long as you have chimney tubes that are long enough to protrude past the o-ring in the top cap to avoid any leaks.

In regulated devices, what matters at the end is heated surface area. If you use thicker wire, you can create a bigger surface area at the same resistance of thinner wire but it will take longer to heat up unless you increase the power.

I've been happy with parallel coils using 32 gauge wire... You create a the surface area 30 percent larger than obetof a normal coil with 29 gauge at the same resistance and since the 32 gauge is thinner, it heats up quickly. If you make the coil with 2.5 mm id and 5 wraps with 2 wires side by side you end having 10 turns of heated surface at 1.2 Ohms
...

This one needs only 10w to heat up quickly.

Tony, thanks for the pics. It's pretty much what I'm doing now.

This twisted 30 came a tad under 1.0Ω but it's glowing in 2 sec at 10W.


Found the culprit that prevented the top cap of my Kayfun Lite plus version 2 with twin airholes. It's the top cap itself! As you can see in the pics, the first one is a normal Kayfun Lite+ the second is the v2 with twin airholes. The latter has a flange in the inside that keeps the chimney oring in place and it makes contact with the chimney top cone. I might manage with a combination of body tubes (normal+nano) and hacking a normal chimney tube but it's probably easier just to substitute the top cap for an old one. I have a pair of 3.1 junkers around.



Both are by Ehpro BTW.

 

[tchavei]

Hi.
Didn't notice the "dual airflow"

Hmm... Curiously, my top cap (ehpro) is a hybrid between your two. It's strait as the top one but has an inside slot/groove for the o-ring like the second one... ??

About the coil... The coolest looking coils are indeed twisted but it's not the same as parallel side by side because of the surface area I mentioned before. The twisted gets thicker, two side by side get wider

All in all I honestly don't find much difference between different coils. Wicking seems to play a major role thought.

I heard that the dual airflow in the ehpro doesn't bring much because both channels end in the same hollow positive pole screw under the coil?

For true dual airflow you could get an Orchid base (same as kayfun but with 3 poles for dual coil, 4 juice channels. Best of all is that you can use the kayfun nano kit and top cap... You end with a kayfun body but a Orchid base

Regards
Tony

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[ForeverDiving]

Hi Tony,

Thanks for the comeback. Somehow I find the twisted 30 better than the single 28. It's been awhile since I've tried twins in Kayfuns. Must do one on the next wick change. Also molto obrigado for the heads up about the Orchid, hadn't heard about them. I see they're by Tobeco. Must find one.

The airflow on the twin hole is indeed better than the singles. I haven't measured the diameter of the deliver hole but must be a tad wider. As you know a slight increase in diameter is a terrific inprovement in volume (π*r²).

For what its worth, I've got a pair of Foggers 4 that are my natural choices for twin coils but as I said, there's been awhile since I "shotgunned" a Kayfun. Have also a UD Aga-T² that is a regular PITA to build and doesn't performs as good as the foggies. Did you see the 5 is about to ship? Lots of improvements but the missus has already put a cap to my vaping trinkets acquisitions —bordering in excess, she says. Doesn't register to her that what I spend on the hobby is less in a year than the cost of two good pipes.

BTW, the name is Jorge and this is my FB wall should you want to put a face to the name.

PS, found them (clones) at FT for a bit over $15, shipped (v3). Reading the discussions people seem mostly pleased with them even tho their buid quality and aesthetics are somewhat poor. Combined airflow is said to be more than a Magma at 2x2mm dia airholes. That should be about or over 4x the flow of a Kayfun. The v4 is announced and it will fit the parts of the full sized Kayfun / Russian. I've got two in my cart but shipping is announced at "7 Bussiness Days" which for FT seem to turn into three weeks. I wonder how many days they work in China?

PS#2, looking carefully at the design, the inprovements over the Fogger 4 would be: a) twice the airflow of the F4 with the AFC ring removed, b) 4 posts vs 2 of the F4. The on the minus side, my Fogger 4.0 2nd iteration with screwed-in AFC ring (not sliding) holds nearly 6ml of juice. The Orchid is mentioned at about 2.5ml? Cannot find the specs.