Why ProVari?

[Fury83]

Seriously? Do you also disagree that a speedometer is objectively better than a tachometer for the purpose of measuring speed


Not pretending. I'm trying. But evidently, it's futile.

It's quite clear that many fanboys on ECF don't know what they're talking about. There are many instances on this thread alone. For example, someone suggested variable current as the next iteration. If you know anything about electricity, you know that makes no sense. Yet another user actually agrees with this nonsense! And even concludes that the Provari is superior. That, in itself, is a non-sequitar. It's just willful ignorance. It reminds me of creationists trying to deny evolutionary theory. They are ignorant, but they get lots of support from fanboys who are equally ignorant.

Lol...I think the internet might be bad place for you.

The provari is perfect for me as it is and as I am at this time. Adding vw wouldn't make it better for me.

Here I'll throw you one out for you to respond to and feel superior





Gee, my provari is the bestest and I don't understand what the smart man is talking about when he says it needs a Volkswagen. Maybe when I grow up...I'll understand.

 

[Sector000]

Seriously, this is in it's infancy in terms of technology. Selecting voltage or wattage to remain constant is your only option and both a bit crude in terms of the perfect burn or vapor. Now wire temperature is one step forward.

Variable temperature is not a new idea. I myself have mentioned this before in another thread, right here:

I'm not saying wattage is the be all, end all. But it is the best technology available today. If someone makes a "Variable Temperature" device, that would be even better than Variable Wattage. But even that wouldn't the be-all, end-all. Maybe it's adjustable coil surface or vaporizing rate? Or even Variable Vapor and Variable Throat Hit. The point is, higher level abstractions are convenient and easy. Microcontrollers or microprocessors are better at arithmetics than humans.

And I'm sure many others have also considered this possibility. It is, however, currently too expensive to implement because a sensor would probably need to be near the coil, an inexpensive disposable device. VW is here today, and it's easy to implement. The fact that VW isn't perfect doesn't mean it sucks. It isn't perfect, but it's better than VV. Or... VW sucks, but VV sucks even more.

 

[tearose50]

I love seeing the X-Provari skeptics saying that they are now pleased with their Provari's.

I'm one too.

I was and still am a VW fan. Something about the technology of it made sense to me 2 years ago and still does. I chose VW over VV for my first vari device. I have no regrets.

And, I sure don't regret that trade deal I did for my first Provari, either. I'm vaping on it now.

Ah gees, I just like my gear......even my hot pink v1 girly Anyvape. Mods can be fun.

 

[bfrie]

Lol this is useless... hey guys what color provaris do you have? Include led color and pics please (changing the subject, this useless drone will never end)

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[DkGanz]

This thread is some of the funniest stuff I have ever read on ECF!
VW or VV?
Stick or automatic?
Who cares as long as we're all not walking in the rain.
It really comes down to personal preference.

 

[mostapha]

I bought my provari mostly so I could conclusively say my evic and zmax were better...it didn't work out like that.

I bought mine because I got to play with someone else's in a bar for ten minutes.

Both settings are inferior to a system that would allow you to just select wire temperature.
Therefore, knocking a device for not having variable wattage is ignorant. They are both just two ways of getting the same exact result.

That's why I said what I did about butons and drawing technique. It doesn't matter whether I'm using my unregulated mechs, my provari, or my kicked devices, I do those things to hit the coil temperature I want.

It's so much freaking easier than playing with settings.

And I still haven't figured out why my air conditioner has an off setting.

What does this have to do with VV and VW? Physics doesn't care what you or I think.

I'll say it again. Watt is a unit of power, volt is not. Simple as that.

No, it's not. Go learn ohm's law again, and pay attention to all of it, not just the triangle. Then, realize a few things.

1. PWM (on the output) screws everything up a little bit, though .....ing finally got people to put in RMS modes. Beofre that, the numbers on the cheap chinese crap really didn't mean anything.
2. The thermal effects on coils are nonlinear with respect to power as well as time and ambient temperature when PWM'd output is involved.
3. All of this is absolutely determined by a combination of variables you don't know and can't control (ambient temperature, PWM details, etc.), the resitance of the coil, and the power applied to it.
4. Given a resistance, Power and Electromotive Force (measured in volts) are equivalent pieces of information, meaning you can determine one from the other.

Yes, VW is theoretically a more direct route towards affecting coil temperature. But if it's not implemented correctly, it just makes things more complicated. I like my VW devices (kicks) just fine. I don't like the devices most people argue for.

Seriously? Do you also disagree that a speedometer is objectively better than a tachometer for the purpose of measuring speed?

What the hell is a speedometer? Is that one of those stupid things behind the wheel that keeps trying to distract me from the road? Enh, I guess it's okay. It keeps me from getting speeding tickets. The tach is completely useless after the first time you drive the car, since I'm already immersed in that information in the form of engine noise.

It's quite clear that many fanboys on ECF don't know what they're talking about. There are many instances on this thread alone. For example, someone suggested variable current as the next iteration. If you know anything about electricity, you know that makes no sense. Yet another user actually agrees with this nonsense! And even concludes that the Provari is superior. That, in itself, is a non-sequitar. It's just willful ignorance. It reminds me of creationists trying to deny evolutionary theory. They are ignorant, but they get lots of support from fanboys who are equally ignorant.

The funny thing is that the theoretical foundation we're working from actually lists Power as something that happens in a system, determined by the modifiable parameters: voltage and resistance. You choose the resistance when you build a coil or put on a device. You choose the voltage when you choose the voltage. Whether a computer hides that number behind a different one doesn't really matter.

In these circuits, EMF and resistance determine current and power.

So, from a theoretical foundation, vairable current is no more indirect than variable power, though it is basically useless for our purposes.

 

[Chikenbok]

And Mostapha has just won the internet.

 

[bfrie]

Not quite, someone will still come back and tell him he is wrong and then half explain why vw is supposedly far superior

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[DkGanz]

Two guys.
One with a VV.
One with a VW.
Both given a juice they have never tried before in an atty they have never used before.
Both can guess in a matter of SECONDS where they are most likely to find success.

After a few test puffs do they adjust their mods up or down a little?
Or do they just assume "It ain't gonna get any better than this!"

I know that on my Provari I would be tweaking the voltage a bit to see if it improves my vape.
On my VW Sigelei I would try adjusting the wattage a little, then switch to voltage to see if that helps any, and then unscrew that atty and put it on my Provari for a really good vape!

I can't say exactly why I prefer my Provari. I just know that TO ME it just plain works better.

If Provari came out with a VW/VV I have no doubt that me and a vast majority of Provari owners would run right out and buy one.

The real question is: In the long run, what mode would they use more?

 

[Bman1959]

Variable Amperage would be no better than Variable Voltage. They're both missing a variable.

Current (amperage) is a unit of electric flow. It's usually the flow of electrons, but not always.

Voltage is the electric potential difference between two points. It's what pushes electrons from one location to another. Think of voltage as the electrical "pressure". It pushes electrons from a location with high pressure to somewhere else with lower pressure.

Current (I) or voltage (V) alone won't tell us the power.

To get the full picture, we need to also know the resistance (R).

I = V/R
V = IR

To calculate power (P):

P = IV

Substituting V/R for I (for variable voltage):

P = V²/R

Or susbistuting IR for V (for variable amperage):

P = I²R

Note that you'd still need to know the resistance.

Work (E) is actually energy or power multipled by time (s):

E = Ps
P = E/s

As you can see, power is energy per second. Watt is a unit of power. That's why Variable Wattage is also called Variable Power. Because they're the same thing.

VV could also be called Variable Potential. So, it's correct to say VW gives you the actual power, and VV only gives you the potential.

Bottom line. The simple fact is watt is a unit of power. Volt and amp are not.

I have my Ugly's book and know it well
Just thew amps into the mix cause its like the ugly stepchild everyone ignores. Besides, I might learn something.
Defining Wattage as power is a misnomer, as what it really is, is a measurement of total energy used, including inefficiencies of the system.
Now as far as VW or VV, could not care less.
I need a PV that is dependable and just works. All the time.
Don't want to buy the "next big thing".
Don't want to amass a collection of PV's.
Don't want a PV with a bunch of buttons and a puff counter. Just more failure points and complexity.
Do want a solid build and won't burn the house down or break when dropped.
Do want changeable batteries.
Do want adjustable "power".
Do want a good warranty.
And if, god forbid it breaks, need to get fixed quickly.
So bought the ProVari.

 

[EddardinWinter]

Isn't that what I've been saying all along? I'm talking about just VW and VV. I'm not talking about any particular implementation. And VW is technically superior, more user friendly, and faster.

I have not said anything about a Provari vs Vamo vs eVic.

All I'm saying is a Provari with VW would be a better Provari.

An eVic without VW would be a worse eVic.

You know I'm right. I know you know that because you know at least some electronics. Most of the fanboys here obviously don't know much about this. And I bet you know it too. But you're just siding with the irrational and ignorant fanboys because you think I'm criticizing a Provari. You think I've committed heresy. What I want to know is why do you help persist the ignorance? Doesn't intellectual honesty count for something around here?

?

I am baffled by this response. I am only on my side. I thought my illustration was apt to this situation. I agree with your principle, yet I find that the performance of VW mods so inferior to the ProVari that it makes the feature less good. Somehow this enrages you and makes you accuse me of intellectual dishonesty.

As to your ProVari with VW would be "better". I honestly (apparently lacking the intellectual honesty section) do not think so. I think the ProVari like it is works. Simple, accurate, dependable, steady, beautiful in its simplicity. If they make a version three with VW, I would check it out, but I would still want my classic ProVari.

Just like a '72 Chevelle.

Lumen Sees Totus.

 

[mostapha]

My beef is with people who insists the Provari is perfect in every way for everyone. Even worse are those who claims that the lack of VW is actually a reason for its superiority. That is utter nonsense.

I don't think anyone has ever said that.

And yes, we'll-implemented VW would theoretically be better. I'd have mine upgraded if they ever did that. But, it's also unnecessary. The clean, flat power output makes up for it.

 

[mmikee]

I just can't understand anyone getting upset over what other people like/love/prefer. Who cares ? Why can't we just give our opinions on what we like or dislike without getting our panties in a bunch ? I LOVE my Provari's (VV). I LOVE my mech's, Kicked (VW), I LOVE my bottom feeder (no electronics at all). I like my Twist batteries (VV). Some of my devices are better built than others, and if asked, I will give my honest opinion of the devices I have tried.

Why does stating our opinions on what we like best become, for some, a personal attack on what they like best. There is plenty of room in the world for all of our opinions, differences, likes and dislikes, etc.

My personal favorite mod is my Provari mini. It just suits me the best. I have had a bunch of different mods, and have really like most of them. When asked, I will give my reasons for liking or disliking anything I have had myself. But there will be know hurt feelings, no personal attacks, and no bashing other peoples equipment. We all have the right to our opinions, whether we agree or not.

 

[Fury83]

My beef is with people who insists the Provari is perfect in every way for everyone. .

Good lord, I missed this...time for an internet break if you have beef with people who feel strongly about a device you don't have.

 

[Sector000]

Watt is a unit of power, volt is not. Simple as that.

No, it's not.

That should be a sticky.

Go learn ohm's law again, and pay attention to all of it, not just the triangle. Then, realize a few things.

My arguments stand or fall based on whether my claims are true for false. It doesn't matter one bit whether I'm a Nobel laureate or a high school drop out.

I just happen to be mechanical engineer and software engineer. If any of my claims are incorrect, please point those out. Attacking me personally doesn't strengthen your argument one bit.

1. PWM (on the output) screws everything up a little bit, though .....ing finally got people to put in RMS modes. Beofre that, the numbers on the cheap chinese crap really didn't mean anything.
2. The thermal effects on coils are nonlinear with respect to power as well as time and ambient temperature when PWM'd output is involved.
3. All of this is absolutely determined by a combination of variables you don't know and can't control (ambient temperature, PWM details, etc.), the resitance of the coil, and the power applied to it.
4. Given a resistance, Power and Electromotive Force (measured in volts) are equivalent pieces of information, meaning you can determine one from the other.

Gibberish. Why even bring up electromotive force when everyone else use "voltage"? Besides, nothing you've said contradicts what I've argued. Everything is equally applicable to both VV and VW. Why are you comparing a poor VW implementation to a good implementation? PWM, RMS, thermal inertia, etc. are exactly the same with VV, VW, or even direct drive from battery.

Yes, VW is theoretically a more direct route towards affecting coil temperature. But if it's not implemented correctly, it just makes things more complicated. I like my VW devices (kicks) just fine. I don't like the devices most people argue for.

So what you're saying is a "more direct route" isn't better than a less direct route, all else equal? OK. There's no reasoning with you.

So, from a theoretical foundation, vairable current is no more indirect than variable power, though it is basically useless for our purposes.

What? You just contradicted your previous statement. You can't even be consistent. Is power "more direct" or not?

 

[Sector000]

Defining Wattage as power is a misnomer, as what it really is, is a measurement of total energy used, including inefficiencies of the system.

The power output of a PV is generally defined as the power through the coil, and not the power consumed by the entire device. When we measure the voltage, we measure it across a coil.

 

[Fury83]

I'm just waiting on a mod to close this and tell us what horrible people we are

 

[Sector000]

As to your ProVari with VW would be "better". I honestly (apparently lacking the intellectual honesty section) do not think so. I think the ProVari like it is works. Simple, accurate, dependable, steady, beautiful in its simplicity. If they make a version three with VW, I would check it out, but I would still want my classic ProVari.

How could a VW Provari not be better than VV Provari. For the comparison to make sense, we need to assume the VW Provari would use exactly the same switching regulator, PWM output, filter, body, and pretty much everything else.

The only difference is now it will add a few MCU instructions to calculate the necessary voltage. Are you saying that doesn't make it better?

Classic is classic. But classic can be outdated. The Amiga, for example, is a classic and a good machine for its time. But a modern PC is vastly superior.

 

[Sector000]

I'm just waiting on a mod to close this and tell us what horrible people we are

Maybe you shouldn't try to pick fights and provoke moderator intervention. Just argue your point and let the them stand or fall, based on merits.

 

[Sector000]

Fact: Most of the mod bashing on ECF are directed at Chinese mods and basically anything not Provari.
Spin: Everyone is bashing the Provari.

Statement: The eVic has a nice screen.
Response: Stop bashing the Provari.

Statement: The Vamo is a good bang for the buck.
Response: Stop bashing the Provari.

Statement: VW is nice.
Response: Stop bashing the Provari.

Statement: The Provari is a very nice device. It could be even better with VW and an upgraded screen.
Response: Stop bashing the Provari.

Statement: The Provari is almost perfect.
Response: Stop bashing the Provari.