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Maybe, but if every vaper responded it may send a message.
There is power in numbers.
They may look at the responses and surmise vapers don't really care.
Only 16,000 out of millions of vapers.....
I honestly don't think the FDA cares if they have the authority to do it or not. They will anyways, or will find a way. If the FDA has to push the individual states to do it, they will. It will just take longer. They will flex their muscle on other agencies to get what they want.
There's history with the FDA way overstepping its bounds, that's not anything out of the ordinary for them.
It's all about the almighty dollar. The FDA, Big tobacco, Big Pharma, etc are all in bed together to make money. I don't think half of what they even do any longer is truly aimed at public safety. It's really sickening.
IDK if the FDA will ban all flavors, some, DIY or just commercial eliquid.
I am pretty sure that they may attempt to ban sales of nicotine, at some point, unless the DIY market is and remains totally puny, but they may restrict it to wholesalers only, I don't know. So that was what I focused on stocking up on, as it will be impossible to ban flavors completely (although, all fast food joints might wind up tasting like Five Guys, that might be the only NEAT outcome of such a ban) as they're used so much in todays foods.
I had no idea, until I started DIY, how UBIQUITOUS all these flavors are, until I started tasting "vape" flavors in some of my foods, like yoghurt! LOL. It was kind of interesting.
But, I didn't stock up (too heavily, compared to some) on flavors, as they do have more of a shelf life than nicotine, if the nic is stored correctly. So, I got enough to last me a long time, but didn't go totally wild.
I do think PG/VG and flavors will be around, just it will require some processes to make them work in DIY.
But, DIY is crazy great on its own merits, so if you are concerned, it would be a good thing to try. If you love it, you know whether or not you want to "stock up" on anything, and it is far, far cheaper. I've made juices I enjoy far more than commercial flavorings. I'd say you owe it to yourself to try.
Vendors I've used: Nicotine river, I love them and probably bought 80% of my DIY stuff there. I finished stocking up using Heartland vapes due to the price etc., but I hear it's decent nic so I'm not worried . I also used Flavor Shack, Cloud Academics, and One Stop DIY (OSDIY is how you'll usually see it abbreviated) and I've been happy with the service and variety from all those places.
I don't have 500 flavors like some folks but I'm a MTL vaper, there is only SO MUCH flavoring I'm going to be able to use! But, I've been pretty happy with my creations and what I have on hand, I know my "flavoring wheelhouse" so to speak.
Best of luck with whatever you decide!
Anna
I am pretty sure that they may attempt to ban sales of nicotine, at some point, unless the DIY market is and remains totally puny, but they may restrict it to wholesalers only, I don't know. So that was what I focused on stocking up on, as it will be impossible to ban flavors completely (although, all fast food joints might wind up tasting like Five Guys, that might be the only NEAT outcome of such a ban) as they're used so much in todays foods.
I had no idea, until I started DIY, how UBIQUITOUS all these flavors are, until I started tasting "vape" flavors in some of my foods, like yoghurt! LOL. It was kind of interesting.
But, I didn't stock up (too heavily, compared to some) on flavors, as they do have more of a shelf life than nicotine, if the nic is stored correctly. So, I got enough to last me a long time, but didn't go totally wild.
I do think PG/VG and flavors will be around, just it will require some processes to make them work in DIY.
But, DIY is crazy great on its own merits, so if you are concerned, it would be a good thing to try. If you love it, you know whether or not you want to "stock up" on anything, and it is far, far cheaper. I've made juices I enjoy far more than commercial flavorings. I'd say you owe it to yourself to try.
Vendors I've used: Nicotine river, I love them and probably bought 80% of my DIY stuff there. I finished stocking up using Heartland vapes due to the price etc., but I hear it's decent nic so I'm not worried . I also used Flavor Shack, Cloud Academics, and One Stop DIY (OSDIY is how you'll usually see it abbreviated) and I've been happy with the service and variety from all those places.
I don't have 500 flavors like some folks but I'm a MTL vaper, there is only SO MUCH flavoring I'm going to be able to use! But, I've been pretty happy with my creations and what I have on hand, I know my "flavoring wheelhouse" so to speak.
Best of luck with whatever you decide!
Anna
I just scanned the thread about the lawsuit but I still admit I don't know much about that avenue. I wonder what the legal argument is. I remember a court ruling some time ago that said vaping was a tobacco product (and so, at the time, couldn't be regulated by the FDA). Then Congress gave the FDA the authority to regulate tobacco. If the argument is now that vaping is NOT a tobacco product, the FDA may go back to their original argument that it's a "drug delivery device" and try to regulate it that way. Seems like a no-win to me.
Our saving grace is that federal agencies tend to move very slowly on things like this.
I'm not a Trump fan by any means, but does his executive order requiring agencies to eliminate two regulations for every new one not apply to the FDA? If it does, then they may leave flavors alone in favor of other priorities.
I hadn't thought about them possibly targeting unflavored nic base. I was sort of thinking unflavored might be easier to get if the FDA banned flavors, not harder. And try as they might they won't be able to ban DIY any more than they've been able to ban RYO cigarettes.
So I don't think I can predict what's going to happen. If they really have public health in mind they'll leave vaping alone. But of course with any bureaucracy the political and personal motivations of people are going to be the determining factor.
Our saving grace is that federal agencies tend to move very slowly on things like this.
I'm not a Trump fan by any means, but does his executive order requiring agencies to eliminate two regulations for every new one not apply to the FDA? If it does, then they may leave flavors alone in favor of other priorities.
I hadn't thought about them possibly targeting unflavored nic base. I was sort of thinking unflavored might be easier to get if the FDA banned flavors, not harder. And try as they might they won't be able to ban DIY any more than they've been able to ban RYO cigarettes.
So I don't think I can predict what's going to happen. If they really have public health in mind they'll leave vaping alone. But of course with any bureaucracy the political and personal motivations of people are going to be the determining factor.
If you haven't already, you should checkout this thread.
Opening Brief Filed in Deeming Rule Appeal by Nicopure Labs and the Right to be Smoke-Free Coalition
Ballot measure here June 5th to overturn local flavor ban in ejuice and tobacco products. It also bans JUUL sales. Currently banned by a law passed by city supervisors but the ban is on hold pending the ballot measure outcome that would overturn or uphold the ban.
Let's see what happens.
SF Proposition E Would Ban Menthol Cigarettes, Vape Flavors
Let's see what happens.
SF Proposition E Would Ban Menthol Cigarettes, Vape Flavors
Thank you for that. Even so, the lawsuit doesn't seem to be challenging the FDA's regulatory authority, just certain provisions of the TCA that are particularly bad for the industry. Doesn't seem to relate to flavors much. Not saying it doesn't have merit, but IMO we can only go so far with the courts. And the term "herding cats" is an understatement when it comes to Congress.
Pains me as it does to say, but on vaping issues our best hope right now is the president. The Donald doesn't seem particularly interested in vaping policy though. But he does like deregulation. So maybe?
Again with the gateway... studies from several different countries, including the US, have debunked this time and time again. Yet this dillweed is still using it as it were fact
I'm in no way advocating this but I weren't opposed to him getting some of those studies force-tattoed all over his body so he has to look at them daily.
It's Canana, you know
In all fairness, I posted before I had my coffee
For now. With in 20 years, it will be the 51st State!
53rd state. Puerto Rico and Mexico will be added first. 55th State if California splits into 3 States.
52nd. We'll likely drop a few atomic bombs into the San Andreas fault and drop most of California into the ocean and the little remaining will be absorbed into the 3 surrounding states.
Without reading any other replies of which there are many on this thread. I can say yes they absolutely will then flavors. And who could blame them? Have you seen some of the packaging and advertisement they have Candy products that look exactly like the Vape products designed to mimic them. It's unbelievable. I get the Vape news on my email and they showed the Vape product next to the food or candy product that it is supposed to mimic and they look nearly identical. So perhaps I am wrong but it seems as though the manufacturers are more to blame than anyone else. Vape juice is essentially poisonous if used incorrectly. So it should be labeled as such. As far as I am concerned the reputable juice producers that I use over accentuate if that is a word their product. It is a poison if used incorrectly however if used correctly it is safe. I don't know do I make sense in this? Some of the products looks so much like the food or candy items that if I were illiterate I would probably use them inappropriately. So as far as I'm concerned thanks to the distributors for wanting to make a quick dollar and not rely on the quality of their product to stand for itself. My solution DIY
Where do you get your nicotine? I'm sorry to bust in on the conversation. I'm a noob, just signed up in the last week & I just got a email about this conversation going on & I clicked on it cuz I wanted to see what all was being said about it. But if I need to stock up on nicotine, I want to go ahead & be ordering some for myself too. Thanks!
There are many many posts in the DIY Eliquid forum about where people get their nicotine base, flavorings, PG, VG, etc. for DIY. Below is a list of just some of the places that many have bought theirs from. Most of them carry various types (freebase nic, salt nic, etc.) and grades (regular, premium, etc.).
Most who DIY buy the 100mg/mL nicotine base in a 100% VG base or a 100% PG base, but it's available in varying combinations of the 2 also. Buying it by the Liter for longterm storage and use for the future, is the most common way it's bought. Lots of us have Liters of nic base broken down into smaller glass bottles, in our freezers, so we can vape as many years as we want to, no matter what the FDA does. The price per liter can vary quite a bit, starting at about $45/Liter plus S/H, up to more than $100/Liter.
Commonly recommended places (in no particular order):
Nude Nicotine
Wizard Labs
Heartland Vapes
Liquid Nicotine Wholesalers
Nicotine Giant
Nicotine River
Best to read some of the discussions in the DIY forum before ordering anything for it though, IMO.
By all means, get some, but understand that summer is not the ideal time to "stock up" for the long term. Nic base does not like heat; sitting in hot trucks and shipping depots for a few days to a week is not a good for it at all.
[QUOTE="RigBick, post: 20852587, member: 328543"
Vape juice is essentially poisonous if used incorrectly. So it should be labeled as such. As far as I am concerned the reputable juice producers that I use over accentuate if that is a word their product. It is a poison if used incorrectly however if used correctly it is safe. I don't know do I make sense in this? Some of the products looks so much like the food or candy items that if I were illiterate I would probably use them inappropriately. [/QUOTE]
Alcohol is poisonous and I did not see any label on wine, beer or vodka stating it is poisonous... at least on most E-juice there is child proof cap... not like on opened bottle of sweet wine... or liquor...
Most children are not too keen on the taste, and do not consume large enough amounts of e-juice to be considered close to lethal... again sweet wine or liquor is more palatable than vg/pg mix even with vanilla flavor
Basic over the counter pain medication, is responsible every year for 300,000 reported calls to the poison control center. Alcohol was reported to be the cause of just over 70,000 calls; even common house or garden plants were responsible approximately 46,000 cases.
"From September 1, 2010 to December 31, 2014, there were at least 5,970 e-cigarette calls to US poison control centers.[28] During the same period, the ten most frequent adverse effects to e-cigarettes and e-liquid reported to US poison control centers were vomiting (40.4%), eye irritation or pain (20.3%), nausea (16.8%), red eye or conjunctivitis (10.5%), dizziness (7.5%), tachycardia (7.1%), drowsiness (7.1%), agitation (6.3%), headache (4.8%), and cough (4.5%).[28]"
I do not see any deaths.... it looks that e- juice is not very poisonous... 6000 calls to US poison in 4 years that means 1500 a year in 300 milion population country.... and biggest percentage of those calls were because of vommiting... how many children died because of drunk driving or leaving loaded gun at home?
Every day in the United States, 18 children and young adults between the ages of 1 and 24 die from gun-related injuries. That makes guns the second leading cause of death in young people — twice the number of deaths from cancer, five times the deaths from heart disease and 15 times the deaths from infections...
All responsible vapers know that e-liquids can pose a certain risk to little ones, and as a result treat it as loaded gun at your home if you have small kids...keep them put away safely and securely.
The truth is the amount of e-juice poisoning cases is way,way, way lower than most other poison calls... and outcome of e-juice poisoning is less severe than eating hamburger with e cola bacteria ( 100,000 illnesses, 3,000 hospitalizations, and 90 deaths annually in the United States.)
Vape juice is essentially poisonous if used incorrectly. So it should be labeled as such. As far as I am concerned the reputable juice producers that I use over accentuate if that is a word their product. It is a poison if used incorrectly however if used correctly it is safe. I don't know do I make sense in this? Some of the products looks so much like the food or candy items that if I were illiterate I would probably use them inappropriately. [/QUOTE]
Alcohol is poisonous and I did not see any label on wine, beer or vodka stating it is poisonous... at least on most E-juice there is child proof cap... not like on opened bottle of sweet wine... or liquor...
Most children are not too keen on the taste, and do not consume large enough amounts of e-juice to be considered close to lethal... again sweet wine or liquor is more palatable than vg/pg mix even with vanilla flavor
Basic over the counter pain medication, is responsible every year for 300,000 reported calls to the poison control center. Alcohol was reported to be the cause of just over 70,000 calls; even common house or garden plants were responsible approximately 46,000 cases.
"From September 1, 2010 to December 31, 2014, there were at least 5,970 e-cigarette calls to US poison control centers.[28] During the same period, the ten most frequent adverse effects to e-cigarettes and e-liquid reported to US poison control centers were vomiting (40.4%), eye irritation or pain (20.3%), nausea (16.8%), red eye or conjunctivitis (10.5%), dizziness (7.5%), tachycardia (7.1%), drowsiness (7.1%), agitation (6.3%), headache (4.8%), and cough (4.5%).[28]"
I do not see any deaths.... it looks that e- juice is not very poisonous... 6000 calls to US poison in 4 years that means 1500 a year in 300 milion population country.... and biggest percentage of those calls were because of vommiting... how many children died because of drunk driving or leaving loaded gun at home?
Every day in the United States, 18 children and young adults between the ages of 1 and 24 die from gun-related injuries. That makes guns the second leading cause of death in young people — twice the number of deaths from cancer, five times the deaths from heart disease and 15 times the deaths from infections...
All responsible vapers know that e-liquids can pose a certain risk to little ones, and as a result treat it as loaded gun at your home if you have small kids...keep them put away safely and securely.
The truth is the amount of e-juice poisoning cases is way,way, way lower than most other poison calls... and outcome of e-juice poisoning is less severe than eating hamburger with e cola bacteria ( 100,000 illnesses, 3,000 hospitalizations, and 90 deaths annually in the United States.)
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