Worried for the future of e-cigs

[Myk]

AFAIK, the places mixing eJuices ARE excused from inspections, except maybe from OSHA (due to the chemicals involved) but that has more to do with employee safety than consumer protection.

It just seems to make sense not to wait until we get some hairy ejuice before anyone notices that something bad is going on in the shop's process or sanitation. And as fast as the industry is growing, I really do think that is inevitable. If it does, it surely won't help put vaping in a good light.

I apologize for not making clear that I was referring to local authorities. But I do see it the same way I see restaurant inspections. ejuice is taken into the respiratory system, I think a little red tape is worth whatever consumer protection might be had from it.

Those kind of inspections would have to be local. I don't see the FDA running checks on every vape shop making liquid.
I really don't think it is that necessary. Short of someone with hepatitis or pneumonia mixing while coughing and bleeding in the liquid I don't think there is much danger. Especially not with PG.

 

[Zach904]

1st post, was gonna do a "hi everyone" thread to kick this off, but got caught up reading threads and this one intrigued me, so my intro thread can wait.

This whole "feeling" about e-cigs gives me the strangest sense of deja-vu. You see, years ago I played online poker at Pokerstars and Party Poker, (and a few other European sites)...it was very similar to where we are today with this topic. Unregulated, "wild west" mentality, was our money safe here or there, from one website to the next, but you know what. The "collective" regulated itself, yes there were some "shady" websites and once people felt their money wasn't safe, they dried up....(word of mouth online goes/went ALONG way with this) A few people may have "got burned" risking money on the riskier sites, but they made their money sometimes. The whole risk/reward thing. I played in the heyday of online poker....made ALOT of money...was considering quitting my day job and doing it full time (really wanted to do this!) I knew from experience and other's exp. which sites were good and which to steer clear of. Then ole "Uncle Sam" had to step in (FOR OUR OWN GOOD!!!) and shut it down. I was so upset, took away my livelihood, all in MY best interest. Folks in EU and Canada can still play online and lo and behold, now Uncle Sam wants to "regulate" and tax and reinstate online gambling again. (the only difference is now it will be taxed out the wazoo). But I noticed the govt NEVER went after state lottos, hell, you can blow your entire paycheck...or for some, their welfare money, on scratch-offs and powerball, but I cant be "allowed" to play poker online. LOL.

Now, I quit smoking 5 years ago, but always had the "urge" to light one here and there....never did, but wanted to. My dad passed away 5 years ago, that was tough, but then my mom passed away 2 months ago. The stress is tremendous. I always told her I was gonna try those "e-cigs" and she said, "no don't, you've done so good quitting"......well.....she died and I went and bought my first "blu" starter kit. It broke two weeks ago and while waiting for a replacement from their company, started reading here. Amazing website you have, the comeraderie reminds me so much of the poker forums I used to belong to. So I am also "waiting" for my first delivery of ejuice and an ego-T starter kit tomorrow; eagerly I might add...but reading this thread I am reminded of how quick US can come in and royally screw up a perfectly good thing. Is/are all ecig sellers legit? No, most assuredly not, but will they stay in business with word of mouth here....absolutely not. It's like buying things on Amazon, you read, read, read all the customer comments, but ultimately it's buyer beware. That's what makes indep. businesses succeed. If they want a great customer base, they better deliver with the customer service, etc...

But, I fear as much as I have enjoyed "vape-ing" this past few weeks, and will come to enjoy all the wonderful flavors I just ordered, our dear "Uncle" will see it as a threat to his bottom line and come in and crush us just like poker did. I still go play in BnM, but it was just so easy to sit around the house and "make money" (Imagine if I'd have had the vape equipment too!!!) I really hope "Uncle" doesn't screw me over again, cause I just happen to love having nicotine again, without the smoke in the lungs, etc....all the pluses and none of the negatives of real smoking.

Anyways, my two cents I suppose. Guess now I can go make a "howdy" post!!! lol

I was right there in the same situation with ya during the glory days of online poker lol... Its not impossible to play online in the U.S. right now... Might want to check out Bovada poker

 

[emus]

As I become more immersed into the vaping lifestyle, I realize that this is one of the best inventions in decades. I have not had a cig in over 5 months and it benefits not just myself, but those who were around my smoking (i.e. 2nd hand smoke). It amounts to less cigarette butts on the road. The pros outweigh the cons (what cons?) in every way that I can see. But yet I worry. What are the tobacco lobbyist up to? What would become of the tobacco crops? The economic loss of the tobacco industry is too much for greedy politicians to accept. They will be doing everything in their power to stop this. Including watching forums like this. I don't like seeing the you tube videos of sloppy diy eliquid tutorials (nicotine is highly dangerous apparently). This infatuation with sub ohm vaping seems unhealthy and potentially dangerous. That is a lot of moisture going into lungs.. I just finished reading a thread where people were bragging about chain-vaping non stop all day. To me, it seems that our own enthusiasm and ingenuity is going to lead to the downfall of this industry. How can vaping not be banned? It is just a matter of time before someone dies from improper usage of eliquids or vaping. What is to stop someone from shipping out eliquids with antifreeze as an ingredient or something stupid..? As much as I hate the idea, it seems almost inevitable that this industry will soon be heavily regulated or banned outright. Sorry for being so pessimistic, but I have to post 5 times in this area before I can move on. Didn't really know what to post, but these thoughts have been on my mind a lot.

I'm not worried. I dabble and find satisfaction in the potentially unhealthy and dangerous sub ohm 0 nic vaping. I fail to see a path for banning this practice.

 

[nic-o-lic]

I know right I have enough for 5 gallons of liquid! lol

It doesn't matter what they do..

I've been vaping for about 3 weeks and I have accumulated a hefty collection of mods and parts.. with no intention of stopping.
One corner of my basement is starting to look like a store.
I've ordered an obscene amount of supplies to make my own juice and intend to stockpile.
Every smoker in my family and every friend is going to have the same shot at quitting smoking like I just did.

They will have to break down my doors to stop me.. and I have some fine doors.

 

[PLANofMAN]

Well if "they" regulate vaping, lets look at what "they" can realistically control:

APV/Mech mods. Nope. Vapers started off by modifying flashlights...we can go right back to doing that again.
Juice delivery mechanisms. Again, we can build and/or re-build our own. Kanthal heating wire is even used in toaster ovens.
Batteries. We "borrowed" those from the flashlight industry.
Flavoring. Already FDA approved. We can buy it ourselves.
Vegetable Glycerin. FDA approved. I can buy it at Wal*Mart.
Propylene Glycol. FDA approved. I can buy it by the gallon from animal feed/farm supply stores.
Nicotine. That one is a little harder to get, and could be regulated in such a way that it becomes very difficult for us to get.

But, we can get tobacco, and if one can get tobacco, you can get nicotine, even if it isn't the cleanest nicotine, it's got to be better than smoking. My blog has a write-up on how to get a pretty clean NET extract that a person can use as a nicotine base for DIY. I've never made it, but I have a copy of it in my "bug-out bag" file in case the worst should ever happen and governments ban vaping.

I mostly have it posted as a resource for Canadian and Australian vapers, who have trouble getting nicotine e-liquid in their countries.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...anol-tobacco-extraction-home-environment.html

 

[awakenedangel]

Day 1 with my new device and my biggest concern is not whether it will be regulated but when and how. I have heard the argument made by our provincial chief medical officer that the use of e-cigs will put us backwards in our effort to de-glamorize smoking for young people. That seems like a flimsy argument given the long list of positive reasons to allow the use of these vaporizers.

 

[Ohms Lawbreaker]

Well if "they" regulate vaping....

What an excellent post. Bravo.

 

[VapieDan]

As I become more immersed into the vaping lifestyle, I realize that this is one of the best inventions in decades. I have not had a cig in over 5 months and it benefits not just myself, but those who were around my smoking (i.e. 2nd hand smoke). It amounts to less cigarette butts on the road. The pros outweigh the cons (what cons?) in every way that I can see. But yet I worry. What are the tobacco lobbyist up to? What would become of the tobacco crops? The economic loss of the tobacco industry is too much for greedy politicians to accept. They will be doing everything in their power to stop this. Including watching forums like this. I don't like seeing the you tube videos of sloppy diy eliquid tutorials (nicotine is highly dangerous apparently). This infatuation with sub ohm vaping seems unhealthy and potentially dangerous. That is a lot of moisture going into lungs.. I just finished reading a thread where people were bragging about chain-vaping non stop all day. To me, it seems that our own enthusiasm and ingenuity is going to lead to the downfall of this industry. How can vaping not be banned? It is just a matter of time before someone dies from improper usage of eliquids or vaping. What is to stop someone from shipping out eliquids with antifreeze as an ingredient or something stupid..? As much as I hate the idea, it seems almost inevitable that this industry will soon be heavily regulated or banned outright. Sorry for being so pessimistic, but I have to post 5 times in this area before I can move on. Didn't really know what to post, but these thoughts have been on my mind a lot.

Assuming you may be correct and there may be some risk involved in vaping I conclude it will not be banned. How could the establishment do so in the light of the known toxic effects of tobacco cigarettes? Have they been banned? The question is how will electronic cigarettes affect the current tobacco tax base? I believe the few countries that have opted for an all out ban are doing so to keep the status quo of the tax structure with no effort on their part. For the rest of the world it will be heavy taxation particularly if tobacco cigarettes, NRT use and smokeless tobacco products show a huge drop in use or even worse approach zero use. Believe me the politicians are looking hard at this since the growth of ecigs has been dramatic in only a handful of years. Here is where is gets very interesting. What do you tax? Devices? I think not since the device itself is purely mechanical and not replaced often. The liquid storage and delivery devices aka attys? Perhaps. UK is fooling with this route as well as a ban although I can't see the reason for this. So that leaves the liquid. CAAAACHING! A consumable used over and over. Yup that's where the bucks are. I can easily see heavy taxes there. Being the politicians are stupid they will ignore DIY liquid for a while until it blossoms to avoid taxes much like loose tobacco did a few years ago. OK how much? I am in Michigan. The total taxes (Fed and State) on a package of cigarettes are about 50% the retail cost. So doubling juice prices should work well for a few years. If the total is less than was achieved from tobacco cigarettes could go higher. I have posted my Cigarette savings guide below. Keep in mind half the posted number is taxes. Multiple me by the millions and the numbers are beyond huge.

 

[TheoGR]

It is just a matter of time before someone dies from improper usage of eliquids or vaping.

I am sorry, but there is proof that smoking kills. There are thousands of people dying every year because of smoking and it's a fact.
So why is not banned? Easy answer. Money and pleasure... So I can't see any reason to ban vaping.

 

[PLANofMAN]

Assuming you may be correct and there may be some risk involved in vaping I conclude it will not be banned. How could the establishment do so in the light of the known toxic effects of tobacco cigarettes? Have they been banned? The question is how will electronic cigarettes affect the current tobacco tax base? I believe the few countries that have opted for an all out ban are doing so to keep the status quo of the tax structure with no effort on their part. For the rest of the world it will be heavy taxation particularly if tobacco cigarettes, NRT use and smokeless tobacco products show a huge drop in use or even worse approach zero use. Believe me the politicians are looking hard at this since the growth of ecigs has been dramatic in only a handful of years. Here is where is gets very interesting. What do you tax? Devices? I think not since the device itself is purely mechanical and not replaced often. The liquid storage and delivery devices aka attys? Perhaps. UK is fooling with this route as well as a ban although I can't see the reason for this. So that leaves the liquid. CAAAACHING! A consumable used over and over. Yup that's where the bucks are. I can easily see heavy taxes there. Being the politicians are stupid they will ignore DIY liquid for a while until it blossoms to avoid taxes much like loose tobacco did a few years ago. OK how much? I am in Michigan. The total taxes (Fed and State) on a package of cigarettes are about 50% the retail cost. So doubling juice prices should work well for a few years. If the total is less than was achieved from tobacco cigarettes could go higher. I have posted my Cigarette savings guide below. Keep in mind half the posted number is taxes. Multiple me by the millions and the numbers are beyond huge.

I think they would be more likely to tax liquid nicotine instead of (or in addition to) e-liquids. That way they get the vendors, consumers, and DIY'ers all in one go. I agree with you when it comes to the government wanting their slice of the pie.

 

[ut1205]

I think they would be more likely to tax liquid nicotine instead of (or in addition to) e-liquids. That way they get the vendors, consumers, and DIY'ers all in one go. I agree with you when it comes to the government wanting their slice of the pie.

Finally someone who understands what the final result will be.

 

[jwoode]

Well I smoked most of my life.. and will probably vape the rest.. and since I quit smoking I might live quite some time.

Obviously it is time to horde vaping supplies.