Worried for the future of e-cigs

[Bramble]

Greetings fellow UT vaper! See my post above regarding a new push to ban ecigs in our state.

Hi! Yes I have already written to them. Twice

Sen. Shiozawa seems to think "the kids" are getting nicotine from online sources (I think that's rubbish and asked him to provide data showing this is true - surveys asking teens where they got the isn't evidence). But he seems generally opposed to raising the smoking age to 21.

 

[Myk]

What are some of the best groups to join to help fight bans regulations and taxes.?

CASAA - The Consumer Advocates for Smoke-free Alternatives Association

 

[Bramble]

This.


"It's not regulated" is a recurring, blatant lie the ANTZ's repeat over and over, in a fear-mongering agenda...

The e-cig IS ALREADY REGULATED! [...]

In my state there are no regulations whatsoever for sanitation or process of where ejuice is made, labelled, or packaged.

I don't know about you but I would like to know that there are some standards in place for that. I like that the health department can inspect restaurants to make sure there isn't a rat infestation in the pantry.

We also want to make sure that vape stores are properly educating their employees about handling things like bottles of nicotine which can be seriously dangerous if not done correctly.

I love anarchy in theory, I'm a free spirit... but if a bunch of contaminated juices are sold to a bunch of people and they get sick or die... how will that advance the acceptance of vaping?

 

[Myk]

In my state there are no regulations whatsoever for sanitation or process of where eJuice is made, labelled, or packaged.

I don't know about you but I would like to know that there are some standards in place for that. I like that the health department can inspect restaurants to make sure there isn't a rat infestation in the pantry.

We also want to make sure that vape stores are properly educating their employees about handling things like bottles of nicotine which can be seriously dangerous if not done correctly.

I love anarchy in theory, I'm a free spirit... but if a bunch of contaminated juices are sold to a bunch of people and they get sick or die... how will that advance the acceptance of vaping?

Actually I think there are federal regulations just like for food. They're ignored so they can claim there's no regulation to get pharmaceutical type regulations and red tape everyone out of business.

 

[ut1205]

Do FDA regulations prevent the pis**d off restaurant employee from spitting on your hamburger? Will someone please give me just one link about some individual that became ill, died, grew two heads from vaping contaminated e-juice made in a lab not subject to FDA inspections.

Does anyone here feel that by their appearance at a town hall meeting, city council meeting, ect. that they were able to change the outcome of proposed anti-vaping laws? Not just attended, but changed the outcome. I would really like to hear your story.

I don't know who said it, but rule number one was "Don't Shoot Yourself in the Foot". I think that is exactly what some vapers are doing.

 

[Bramble]

Actually I think there are federal regulations just like for food. They're ignored so they can claim there's no regulation to get pharmaceutical type regulations and red tape everyone out of business.

Can you show me what regs exist? I'm not trying to be tedious but AFAIK someone could mix your liquid at the bottom of a sewer using contaminated ingredients after wiping his .... with his fingers... and sell it to you.

I am not talking about FDA regulation of ingredients, I know that exists. I'm talking about local health departments being able to inspect the mixing areas to ensure that someone's cat didn't poop all over the utensils before it's sold to you. The same consumer protection you want before you eat off a plate in a restaurant.

I am not worried about our local shops because we have a vape association (Utah Vapers) that most of them certify with anyway. So they are already compliant with something like this. The ones that aren't, don't get my business. It works in the favor of good B&Ms and eliminates competition with those who aren't following sanitary guidelines.

The Utah group actually worked with the health department in one county to draft some SANE regulations for this and as far as I know it has not negatively impacted the shops in that area.

 

[Stosh]

So health department regulations will fix everything.......here's a couple of articles...

GoLocalProv | News | 25 Providence Restaurants with Highest Number of Health Violations

https://files.nyu.edu/jpw300/public/Report.html

If regulations and laws were the answer for all our problems, we wouldn't need so many courts and prisons.

p.s. - I DIY my e-liquid, know how to cook food at home also....

 

[Bramble]

So health department regulations will fix everything.......here's a couple of articles...

GoLocalProv | News | 25 Providence Restaurants with Highest Number of Health Violations

https://files.nyu.edu/jpw300/public/Report.html

If regulations and laws were the answer for all our problems, we wouldn't need so many courts and prisons.

p.s. - I DIY my e-liquid, know how to cook food at home also....

I am likewise a very good cook and because of my eating habits I don't dine out often. But I would not eat at a restaurant that could not pass HD inspections. You can. That's on you. Do you think it would be helpful to de-regulate restaurants then? I'm guessing those inspections actually are helpful if not foolproof.

Moreover if there is a widespread issue with the food, the Health Dept NEEDS TO HAVE THE AUTHORITY to close a place. Otherwise, what? People just keep going there and getting sick and no one can do anything about it... until there is an outcry of "why wasn't this place closed down by someone, why is no one looking out for the consumer?"

This is why real anarchy would fail. If there is a buck to make, someone will use shortcuts and eventually you have high end shops going out of business because someone is using their cat's litterbox and contaminated/improperly stored ingredients to mix very cheap juice and sell it to unsuspecting vapers. I don't know who would advocate for this or how it would help us.

This is one seriously prickly group when it comes to simple rules. There was a thread about if people would share their PV with a total stranger and most people said NO. But you'll be content to inhale whatever comes in a bottle that you don't even know if it was handled in a hygienic way?

To each their own but my take is that not all rules are bad. Not all regulations work against us. If we consent to reasonable rules, it may save us from worse. Like when they argue that there's no quality control on the juices and we can say "Yes there is. Boom."

 

[Free6413]

This is always a good one! For years the BG and BT have been plastering the media with stop smoking campaigns and ads promoting the gums, patches and pharmaceutical remedies knowing all along that the success rate of these are minimal. That way they keep the hate mongers quiet with the notion that they are doing their part. All of this with the expectation that when they don't work, you'll be back. The money will be back also. Now there is something that has a high level of success......this has to be evil! How do they deal with it? Taxes, bans and fear generation! That's how! When the cash flow is effected, go on the defensive! When will the public wake up and understand that we go to the polls every election with the thought "I'll vote for the candidate that is the lesser evil" instead of somebody that will actually work for the people! What was that? There isn't one? You are so right! The Republic we love so much was never designed to be run by professional politicians and special interest groups. The sad fact is that is how it's done today! Someday individuals will have to stand up and do their part on an individual basis. Believe it or not, there are a lot of us individuals out here that think alike. When the voices of each of us chime in unison, it becomes a roar. The problem is that everyone believes that someone will not listen. Single voices or small groups can easily be squelched out. The larger voice is not that easy to ignore! That is US! Be heard y'all!

Sorry......this one always gets me! I will sit back down now!

 

[Free6413]

Ok This is the same thing that America has done to the Hemp Plant for over 76+yrs. They will lie and misinform the public to the point of inducing widespread fear, a fear of the bogie man, this time its us, you and me and the vaping devices we use.

This is so sad to see since this hobby/habit or just love of vaping has removed deadly tobacco products from our all of our lives. Its sad because its the same thing that has happened over and over again to me as a legalization activist. After years and years of fighting and working very hard they just now have broken through the wall of prohibition, yet still there is only small sections of light shining through. Even today we have some states where people are not active and dont fight the lies and corruption against them, look how many states still have no movement to legalize at all.

Im from this world of activism and I have seen both sides of it, from a strong group of activists winning their fight, like in WA legalizing or the long dull life of no group or supporters in states like Ohio, KY, TN or VA, that still live in the dark ages of prohibition. From all the time and effort I have spent on that issue I find myself now gearing up for a second fight to keep the right to Vape. I believe we can end this and jump in front of this growing effort to destroy the vaping community and stop the lies dead in their tracks.

I can go into many ways we can head this thing off at the pass but the main thing that will stop this and end any fight is us, the vaping community, you and me, standing up and making the truth and our story heard. We have to speak up and educate people, we have to tell our story and get the truth out, how vaping saves lives. This is the key in any activist movement, supporters in numbers speaking out. Dont think for one second that this will all blow over or will my one voice count against all this, we all have to stand and fight or we all will loose in the end.

I have spent 25+ years in the reform movement, debunking the lies and misinformation, educating my fellow citizens to remove the fear they have been programmed to have about a plant. We are so far ahead of the game when it comes to fighting for vaping rights I just worry too many will think that it could never get that bad. Im sure in 1937 a few friends were sitting on their front porch firing up a joint, I bet they had no clue or would have never thought anyone would make a plant illegal let alone that it would stay that way for generations! I fear only that we will miss our chance to stop this before it starts and then its a fight uphill against laws that are in place. We have to get active and get active now, all of us, period!

See, I'm not the only one out there!

 

[BLACK213]

Here in Oklahoma, our greedy politicians have introduced a emergency house bill that will ban the sale to under 18, (which ALL The vape shops already self regulate)and also tax it like a tobacco product, the bill is sponsored by rj reynolds and some other big tobacco company, Talk about BS I emailed the people we elected to office and told them they are working with murderers and to not let this go thru as big tobacco wants it treated (and Taxed) like their product, only their product KILLS people! They already collect sales tax which is more than enough. I HATE POLITICIANS!
HAHA I hate not being up to date on politics but I hate politics, anyway it looks like that bill died in congress a while ago. so now I really feel dumb for emailing them about a dead bill. ya know what thou after thinking about it not one of them replied to let me know. lolol wish i could delete this

 

[Bramble]

HAHA I hate not being up to date on politics but I hate politics, anyway it looks like that bill died in congress a while ago. so now I really feel dumb for emailing them about a dead bill. ya know what thou after thinking about it not one of them replied to let me know. lolol wish i could delete this

Utah had a similar bill which I'm happy to say also died. I had to get up to speed about this too

 

[Zach904]

Wow, thanks so much for the overwhelming response to my thoughts everyone. I absolutely love the passion I have been seeing and I am without a doubt getting involved in CASAA as a direct result from this thread. I look forward to reading any other thoughts or opinions that might come this way, some outstanding points have been made

 

[MissKitty47]

Worried bite nutz bite richard hard

Sent by my cat through pure magic

 

[stylemaster2001]

1st post, was gonna do a "hi everyone" thread to kick this off, but got caught up reading threads and this one intrigued me, so my intro thread can wait.

This whole "feeling" about e-cigs gives me the strangest sense of deja-vu. You see, years ago I played online poker at Pokerstars and Party Poker, (and a few other European sites)...it was very similar to where we are today with this topic. Unregulated, "wild west" mentality, was our money safe here or there, from one website to the next, but you know what. The "collective" regulated itself, yes there were some "shady" websites and once people felt their money wasn't safe, they dried up....(word of mouth online goes/went ALONG way with this) A few people may have "got burned" risking money on the riskier sites, but they made their money sometimes. The whole risk/reward thing. I played in the heyday of online poker....made ALOT of money...was considering quitting my day job and doing it full time (really wanted to do this!) I knew from experience and other's exp. which sites were good and which to steer clear of. Then ole "Uncle Sam" had to step in (FOR OUR OWN GOOD!!!) and shut it down. I was so upset, took away my livelihood, all in MY best interest. Folks in EU and Canada can still play online and lo and behold, now Uncle Sam wants to "regulate" and tax and reinstate online gambling again. (the only difference is now it will be taxed out the wazoo). But I noticed the govt NEVER went after state lottos, hell, you can blow your entire paycheck...or for some, their welfare money, on scratch-offs and powerball, but I cant be "allowed" to play poker online. LOL.

Now, I quit smoking 5 years ago, but always had the "urge" to light one here and there....never did, but wanted to. My dad passed away 5 years ago, that was tough, but then my mom passed away 2 months ago. The stress is tremendous. I always told her I was gonna try those "e-cigs" and she said, "no don't, you've done so good quitting"......well.....she died and I went and bought my first "blu" starter kit. It broke two weeks ago and while waiting for a replacement from their company, started reading here. Amazing website you have, the comeraderie reminds me so much of the poker forums I used to belong to. So I am also "waiting" for my first delivery of ejuice and an ego-T starter kit tomorrow; eagerly I might add...but reading this thread I am reminded of how quick US can come in and royally screw up a perfectly good thing. Is/are all ecig sellers legit? No, most assuredly not, but will they stay in business with word of mouth here....absolutely not. It's like buying things on Amazon, you read, read, read all the customer comments, but ultimately it's buyer beware. That's what makes indep. businesses succeed. If they want a great customer base, they better deliver with the customer service, etc...

But, I fear as much as I have enjoyed "vape-ing" this past few weeks, and will come to enjoy all the wonderful flavors I just ordered, our dear "Uncle" will see it as a threat to his bottom line and come in and crush us just like poker did. I still go play in BnM, but it was just so easy to sit around the house and "make money" (Imagine if I'd have had the vape equipment too!!!) I really hope "Uncle" doesn't screw me over again, cause I just happen to love having nicotine again, without the smoke in the lungs, etc....all the pluses and none of the negatives of real smoking.

Anyways, my two cents I suppose. Guess now I can go make a "howdy" post!!! lol

 

[Myk]

Can you show me what regs exist? I'm not trying to be tedious but AFAIK someone could mix your liquid at the bottom of a sewer using contaminated ingredients after wiping his .... with his fingers... and sell it to you.

I am not talking about FDA regulation of ingredients, I know that exists. I'm talking about local health departments being able to inspect the mixing areas to ensure that someone's cat didn't poop all over the utensils before it's sold to you. The same consumer protection you want before you eat off a plate in a restaurant.

I am not worried about our local shops because we have a vape association (Utah Vapers) that most of them certify with anyway. So they are already compliant with something like this. The ones that aren't, don't get my business. It works in the favor of good B&Ms and eliminates competition with those who aren't following sanitary guidelines.

The Utah group actually worked with the health department in one county to draft some SANE regulations for this and as far as I know it has not negatively impacted the shops in that area.

I said federal not your local health department. Those laws would be up to your state or local governments.

I don't know at what point this letter is compared to the actual court decision but it's obvious the FDA has always thought they had jurisdiction over ecigs on some level and I'm sure they could fit it in with existing GMP. It's pretty obvious they were still trying to push the drug aspect.
Johnson Creek Enterprises, LLC 9/8/10

Just because something is new doesn't mean it is excused from inspections until new red tape is made. They can't regulate vitamins as drugs but they still have them under control. You can bet if complaints started rolling in about a company having hairy vitamins they'd get a visit and specific GMP or not they would get inspected.

Actually there isn't an FDA regulation of ingredients. There could be but they're pretending they have no power so they can regulate them as tobacco.

 

[MissKitty47]

Deal church

Sent by my cat through pure magic

 

[Bramble]

I said federal not your local health department. Those laws would be up to your state or local governments.

I don't know at what point this letter is compared to the actual court decision but it's obvious the FDA has always thought they had jurisdiction over ecigs on some level and I'm sure they could fit it in with existing GMP. It's pretty obvious they were still trying to push the drug aspect.
Johnson Creek Enterprises, LLC 9/8/10

Just because something is new doesn't mean it is excused from inspections until new red tape is made. They can't regulate vitamins as drugs but they still have them under control. You can bet if complaints started rolling in about a company having hairy vitamins they'd get a visit and specific GMP or not they would get inspected.

Actually there isn't an FDA regulation of ingredients. There could be but they're pretending they have no power so they can regulate them as tobacco.

AFAIK, the places mixing eJuices ARE excused from inspections, except maybe from OSHA (due to the chemicals involved) but that has more to do with employee safety than consumer protection.

It just seems to make sense not to wait until we get some hairy eJuice before anyone notices that something bad is going on in the shop's process or sanitation. And as fast as the industry is growing, I really do think that is inevitable. If it does, it surely won't help put vaping in a good light.

I apologize for not making clear that I was referring to local authorities. But I do see it the same way I see restaurant inspections. eJuice is taken into the respiratory system, I think a little red tape is worth whatever consumer protection might be had from it.

 

[MissKitty47]

Mitra are sugar gave a hard tube duende indigent up an find to then jerrett

Sent by my cat through pure magic

 

[MissKitty47]

Less

Sent by my cat through pure magic