Your preferred wattage.

[Baditude]

I'm not sure if a "direct lung, high wattage, sub-ohm setup" is actually "advanced" anymore. It used to be !. When the only way to subohm vape was to build it was.

Now all the B & M and online vape stores are selling subohm kits ready to go. I think It was probably better back when the only way to subohm was to build it yourself because of the learning curve involved.

I'd imagine the vaping community is growing bigger with those who are quite literally taking up subohm vaping with their first device. The market is flooded with direct to lung subohm atomizers vastly out weighing mouth to lung atomizers.

There's nothing advanced about drop in mesh coils. Building a complicated multiple coil assembly and understanding a little about ohm's law is what i'd call advanced. The only advanced aspect these two completely different approaches have in common is battery safety. I get the impression that a lot of vape shops are pushing high powered sub-ohm setups to beginners, and I don't believe that is the best policy.

I'm not sure if most new users even consider battery safety when buying their first device.

Why would you consider this an "advance"? Yes, DL high power setups were necessary for some people to quit, but I just don't see it as a sensible move for people who who were successful in getting off cigs using a tootle-puffing style to switch to a lung-buster style of vaping.

I guess we need to define what "advanced" means in vaping. Do we define it by "knowlege" or "experience", or by the "gear" that we use? I'm open to discuss this, but maybe in another thread. I don't want to side track or get off topic in this thread.

Perhaps I didn't express myself well with my post. By "advanced", I meant that most novices start out using low powered, MTL setups. Once novices get that part down, some of them move on to more high powered, lower ohm "advanced" setups. Starting out from scratch with a DTL sub-ohm setup from being a smoker can be a bit much and disappointing to novices. Many vapers are perfectly satisfied with what they began with, and that's great. Whatever works for you.

I'm not particularly happy that a lot of vape shops, or the vape industry in general, seems to be focusing upon high powered mods and sub-ohm setups. They shouldn't forget that those types of setups are not particular favorable for brand new vapers looking for a healthier alternative from smoking. Remember. most people making the switch from smoker to vaper aren't aware of websites like ECF where they can get the best advice on a starter setup.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

We are all individuals with individual needs. MTL vaping did not provide the satisfaction I needed to quit smoking. Had my first exposure to vaping be with a DTL setup, I would have saved myself from 2+ years of smoking cigarettes. I also introduced a good friend of mine to vaping. Our plan was to shop together for the right equipment for her, but time constraints prohibited that. She purchased a DTL setup on her own and as her first vape she enjoys it very much.

 

[Baditude]

We are all individuals with individual needs. MTL vaping did not provide the satisfaction I needed to quit smoking. Had my first exposure to vaping be with a DTL setup, I would have saved myself from 2+ years of smoking cigarettes. I also introduced a good friend of mine to vaping. Our plan was to shop together for the right equipment for her, but time constraints prohibited that. She purchased a DTL setup on her own and as her first vape she enjoys it very much.

I guess I was thinking about this thread. A newer vaper who chose the wrong setup for him and was wondering why it wasn't working out for him. He lacked the experience and knowledge to know what type of vaper he was and what gear he needed to satisfy his style.

Calling in all Vaporesso Luxe users. Please help

 

[Punk In Drublic]

I guess I was thinking about this thread. A newer vaper who chose the wrong setup for him and was wondering why it wasn't working for him.

Calling in all Vaporesso Luxe users. Please help

Good example but that brush can’t be used to paint all examples. That particular user started with a MTL pod, and was interested in a DTL setup – felt it would give him more satisfaction. He also wants to blow clouds so the obvious step is to try a DTL setup. Didn’t work for him, or perhaps he is doing something wrong, but he did gain some experience in the process.

 

[Opinionated]

 

[Rossum]

How does surface area determine the power requirement? 24 awg Ti will have the same surface area as 24 awg Kanthal should the coil be built to the same dimensions. But given it’s mass, and Specific Heat Capacity (which I neglected to mention for simplicity), it will require less power to achieve the same increase in temperature for the same duration of time.

24awg, 5 wraps around a 3mm ID, it takes Kanthal approx. 0.4 seconds to increase it’s temperature by 200°C at 20 watts. A Titanium coil of the same dimensions would only require 15 watts to achieve the same result.

Yes, of course, the titanium coil will heat up faster, because it has less mass. Titanium has much lower density than Kanthal, but only slightly higher specific heat, so it's easier to heat up. But once the coil temperature stabilizes, they will perform pretty much the same at the same wattage, because their surface area is the same.

 

[Rossum]

Does this explain why I paid a lot of attention, a while back, to "heat flux" (a term that I have no clue what it means)?

Yes, Steam Engine's "Heat Flux" is the watts / unit of surface area of the coil. An excellent thing to take into consideration for simple coils, but needs to be taken with a grain of salt anything made of more than one strand of wire because it doesn't take into account the surface area that's lost to "shielding" of one wire by another.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

Yes, of course, the titanium coil will heat up faster, because it has less mass. Titanium has much lower density than Kanthal, but only slightly higher specific heat, so it's easier to heat up. But once the coil temperature stabilizes, they will perform pretty much the same at the same wattage, because their surface area is the same.

Sorry but I don’t understand. They are achieving the same temperature but one is doing it at a lower wattage. At what time does the temperature stabilize? How do you mitigate that time?

 

[CMD-Ky]

Yes, Steam Engine's "Heat Flux" is the watts / unit of surface area of the coil. An excellent thing to take into consideration for simple coils, but needs to be taken with a grain of salt anything made of more than one strand of wire because it doesn't take into account the surface area that's lost to "shielding" of one wire by another.

Simple guy, simple coil. To quote that great American philosopher, Harry Callahan, "A man's got to know his limitations".

 

[Rossum]

Sorry but I don’t understand. They are achieving the same temperature but one is doing it at a lower wattage. At what time does the temperature stabilize? How do you mitigate that time?

How do you know what temperature the Kanthal coil reaches?

Are your hits long enough to ever get to a stable temperature on the Kanthal coil?

 

[Punk In Drublic]

How do you know what temperature the Kanthal coil reaches?

Are your hits long enough to ever get to a stable temperature on the Kanthal coil?

You do not know what temperature a kanthal coil reaches. But that is not the question. Even if using a TC metal where you have control of temperature (sans any errors of course), do you set the same power for different coils based on their surface area or mass?

I am trying to understand the correlation between power and surface area

 

[DaveP]

I the short term we all install a coil and wick, then play with the wattage/temperature/voltage adjustment until the hit is "just right". Ramp time varies with wire gauge and cross-sectional area of the coil. There's a sweet spot for any coil depending on the power you plan to apply to the atomizer.

 

[Rossum]

I am trying to understand the correlation between power and surface area

Surface area determines how much heat the coil can lose via radiation, and how much liquid can be in contact with it, and thus remove heat via being vaporized off.

 

[Rossum]

I the short term we all install a coil and wick, then play with the wattage/temperature/voltage adjustment until the hit is "just right".

Not all of us. Some of us use mech mods.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

Surface area determines how much heat the coil can lose via radiation, and how much liquid can be in contact with it, and thus remove heat via being vaporized off.

I see what you are saying, and yes I understand that. But let me paint an example.

29awg Kanthal parallel with 8 wraps has an almost identical surface area (according to Steam) than 24awg Kanthal of 8 wraps but with almost half the mass. The 29awg parallel coil could not reach a desired temperature within a specific atomizer. Increasing the power did little. However, the 24awg scaled in heat as more power was applied. So we have 2 coils of almost identical surface area but with vastly different mass and they operate quite differently.

 

[Electrodave]

What wattage do I use? Depends on the setup, and the experience that I want to get out of it.

One thing to bear in mind is that my juice is 98% VG, so I can blow serious clouds on just about any setup. I do, too, because I direct lung inhale on any and all of these devices for 3-9 second tokes.

I may never wind a coil, but I can get a satisfying vape from a lobster and a stick.

The mods and tanks range in age from 2013-2018. The mods run from 15W to 228W (!) The coils in the tanks run from .3 to 2.0 ohms.

Left to right:

Smok Bolt with a HOH Kabuki, running a 1.6ohm Nautilus BVC coil. When the battery is at 3.7V, then the wattage is about 8.5W. Nice, smooth, and cool, with excellent vapor production from the Kabuki.

ELeaf iJust2 with a Kangertech Subtank Nano running a 1.2 ohm OCC. Runs just a bit warmer and denser at 11.5W.

Provari V2 with a carto tank/2.0 0hm cartomizer. Makes nice puffy clouds of flavor at 7W.

Vaporesso Revenger with a modified Kangertech Subtank Mini. 1.5 ohm coil running efficiently at 13W. Dense plumes, a bit warmish.

eVic VT with an ELeaf Melo 3, .3 ohm coil. Lovin' this tank. Just bought another. Refill coil heads are pretty inexpensive, and it hits very smoothly at cool temperatures, which is important to me. Making nice clouds at 25W.

Kamry K1000 pipe mod with a Naughty Minnie. Again, 1.6 ohm Nautilus BVC, so 8.5W again. Very nice.

So, can I be an advanced vaper anyway, even though I don't build coils?

 

[Jesse James]

Those of us who vape at low wattage levels are using mouth to lung atomizers. MTL attys are generally small air port, low air flow, kind of like pulling a hit off a cigarette. 10W to 15W is a common power level. You get a slightly warm to very warm vape in that range with a MTL atty because the lower air flow doesn't cool the coil as much.

I do MTL with attys in the .5 to 1 ohm range. I wind my own coils to suit the atty I'm vaping. Lots of vapers use factory coils for the convenience of just replacing a coil when the vape goes South. It's more more expensive to use factory made coils, but doing so yields a high convenience factor over winding your own. I like the option of changing the coil diameter and number of wraps as well as using multiple atomizers with different flavor and vapor characteristics.

Whats's cloud production on something like that? Also, about how long did it take of making your own coils to really get it right(basically just not messing things up lol)? Because I'm considering making the plunge into DIY coils.

 

[Jesse James]

View attachment 820965 What wattage do I use? Depends on the setup, and the experience that I want to get out of it.

One thing to bear in mind is that my juice is 98% VG, so I can blow serious clouds on just about any setup. I do, too, because I direct lung inhale on any and all of these devices for 3-9 second tokes.

I may never wind a coil, but I can get a satisfying vape from a lobster and a stick.

The mods and tanks range in age from 2013-2018. The mods run from 15W to 228W (!) The coils in the tanks run from .3 to 2.0 ohms.

Left to right:

Smok Bolt with a HOH Kabuki, running a 1.6ohm Nautilus BVC coil. When the battery is at 3.7V, then the wattage is about 8.5W. Nice, smooth, and cool, with excellent vapor production from the Kabuki.

ELeaf iJust2 with a Kangertech Subtank Nano running a 1.2 ohm OCC. Runs just a bit warmer and denser at 11.5W.

Provari V2 with a carto tank/2.0 0hm cartomizer. Makes nice puffy clouds of flavor at 7W.

Vaporesso Revenger with a modified Kangertech Subtank Mini. 1.5 ohm coil running efficiently at 13W. Dense plumes, a bit warmish.

eVic VT with an ELeaf Melo 3, .3 ohm coil. Lovin' this tank. Just bought another. Refill coil heads are pretty inexpensive, and it hits very smoothly at cool temperatures, which is important to me. Making nice clouds at 25W.

Kamry K1000 pipe mod with a Naughty Minnie. Again, 1.6 ohm Nautilus BVC, so 8.5W again. Very nice.

So, can I be an advanced vaper anyway, even though I don't build coils?

Well you're certainly more advanced than I am lol. I like the pipe mod, very classy.

 

[MyMagicMist]

Not all of us. Some of us use mech mods.

Yep. I range from 30 - 50 Watts I reckon using the Coppervapes, probably about that using the semi-mech Pico Squeeze. It all depends on voltage drop of the battery at the moment. Don't much worry as long as I know I got a reasonably safe build on it. I like a μ .30 to .50 Ω.

 

[scott58]

8.4 watts for over 5 years. Not sure what the watts were on the other stuff I used.