Your thoughts on kids who vape, but have never smoked an analog before?

[spartanstew]

Would you rather your cousin pulled out an analog and smoked it while you vaped? At least he's starting on the right track instead of using analogs first.

Why do people keep saying this (and of the 120 posts in this thread, it's been said at least 75 times)? It's not even relevant. He would probably he rather vape instead of shoot ...... too, but that's also irrelevant.

He would rather his cousin did nothing. As would I, and I would hope, most reasonable people.

Does his cousin have a right to do it? Certainly. Nobody said he doesn't (although many have made that comment too).

It's very simple, given the option of vaping or not vaping (as the only two options), which would you rather your non-smoking loved one do? Not vaping is the only choice.

 

[jozef-3d]

Why do people keep saying this (and of the 120 posts in this thread, it's been said at least 75 times)? It's not even relevant. He would probably he rather vape instead of shoot ...... too, but that's also irrelevant.

He would rather his cousin did nothing. As would I, and I would hope, most reasonable people.

Does his cousin have a right to do it? Certainly. Nobody said he doesn't (although many have made that comment too).

It's very simple, given the option of vaping or not vaping (as the only two options), which would you rather your non-smoking loved one do? Not vaping is the only choice.

I disagree with you. My inquiry is not irrelevant. Vaping is a healthy alternative to smoking analogs. Just because most of us has had the experience to smoke analogs in our lifetime and have been able to quit because of vaping, it by no means give us the right to ostracized those who are vaping for the first time even though they've never smoked before. It's just an elitist outlook on the subject matter. This doesn't mean that they should be vaping even though they haven't smoked before either. But if given the choice, I'm glad his cousin took the healthier alternative. Let's face it, it's not as simple as given the option to vape or not vape because they also have the option to smoke or not smoke.

Most people started smoking because they've seen other people do it, etc... (if you deem otherwise I'll call BS).

His cousin is young, many people pick up smoking in college, some never. Clearly he's interested otherwise why did he try to even vape? I'm sure he had a clear knowledge of it being a healthier alternative otherwise why pick one up? Just as I know he clearly knows why picking up an analog will kill you....

So I'm returning my reply to you that your rant is irrelevant purely because you're pigeon holing this discussion to only vaping vs non-vaping without considering any factors.

 

[spartanstew]

Vaping is a healthy alternative to smoking analogs.

Correct, but it's not a healthy alternative to not smoking analogs.

Why do you assume his cousin would start smoking analogs if not for vaping? Because you did? They have lots of other options too. Drinking, smoking pot, freebasing, etc.

Why not take those leaps? Why focus only on smoking analogs?

True of False: I would encourage a young loved one to take up vaping?

Just answer that without adding any suppositions or possibilities of what might happen instead. There's no reason to believe that person would smoke analogs if it wasn't for vaping. None. Could it happen? Sure. But it's equally likely it wouldn't.

Not to mention, it goes without saying doesn't it? Do you think anyone here (or anywhere) would rather the kids smoked analogs than vape? Do you think anyone believes analogs are a healthier alternative to vaping? Clearly the answer is No, so there's really no reason to state "better this than analogs", is there? It's like chiming in that the sky is blue.

 

[jozef-3d]

Why do you assume his cousin would start smoking analogs if not for vaping? Because you did? They have lots of other options too. Drinking, smoking pot, freebasing, etc.

Because one can only assume what someone else will do. Why do you assume he wouldn't start smoking analogs if not for vaping? You simply can't, and if you say otherwise, give me your phone number so I can also ask you for next weeks lotto numbers.

Why not take those leaps? Why focus only on smoking analogs?

I'm focusing on smoking analogs because people don't try to quit smoking pot by vaping. People don't try to quit drinking by vaping, and people certainly don't try to quit freebasing by vaping....go figure?!

True of False: I would encourage a young loved one to take up vaping?

Just answer that without adding any suppositions or possibilities of what might happen instead. There's no reason to believe that person would smoke analogs if it wasn't for vaping. None. Could it happen? Sure. But it's equally likely it wouldn't.

Of course I would never encourage a young one to vape, but he's already vaping. Clearly there is an interest there, analogs or not; which opens the potential possibilities in either way. But to tell me not to consider any suppositions of possibilities of what might happen is like asking me to buy a car without research and factoring how much insurance I would pay for a car and how does it fit in my financial budget. But reality is some do buy a car without research. Just as how there are people in this world with varying degrees of opinions and perspective; and to respect that without being narrow minded.

 

[flowerpots]

I've been reading this thread and find it interesting to see the different perspectives. It's a complicated issue with many sides to consider.

I don't have children or nieces/nephews. I do have cousins, but none that young (as I am not young anymore lol). But, I would not want for any young person to start vaping, doing hookah, or smoking. I know this may not be well-received, but I do think it's a gateway thing into nicotine addiction. Young people are impressionable and not experienced enough to understand the long-term effects of their decisions/actions. And while vaping is an obvious smarter and healthier alternative to smoking, why develop that habit at all? I would want more for them and their path in life. I think vaping has taken the place of what smoking was for many of us back in high school and college. Who is attracted to it, and why they are, is debatable and I have been reading journals on scientific explorations in nicotine and tobacco, and it seems to be a complicated, multi-faceted cultural issue. People who think it's "cool" to smoke or vape, who think it adds to their persona, are going to be the ones who are curious. Education seems to be the answer and at that age, young adults are just trying to fit in with whatever crowd they identify. I just think it's not good for kids to be vaping.

 

[DC2]

I know this may not be well-received, but I do think it's a gateway thing into nicotine addiction. Young people are impressionable and not experienced enough to understand the long-term effects of their decisions/actions. And while vaping is an obvious smarter and healthier alternative to smoking, why develop that habit at all? I would want more for them and their path in life. I think vaping has taken the place of what smoking was for many of us back in high school and college. Who is attracted to it, and why they are, is debatable and I have been reading journals on scientific explorations in nicotine and tobacco, and it seems to be a complicated, multi-faceted cultural issue. People who think it's "cool" to smoke or vape, who think it adds to their persona, are going to be the ones who are curious. Education seems to be the answer and at that age, young adults are just trying to fit in with whatever crowd they identify. I just think it's not good for kids to be vaping.

I don't have a problem agreeing with everything you said, except the first sentence.
What followed can be said of nicotine-free vaping as well, so why assume that nicotine is going to eventually enter the picture?

 

[Dan998]

I can tell you all first hand being that I'm just out of highschool that the number of kids that vape is enormous, most of them were not smokers before and are not vaping zero nic juice. They all do it at school and out of school just because they like the "buzz" and or think its the new cool thing to do, I personally find it absolutely stupid since nicotine is highly addictive and they just arnt thinking before they start. I'm not going to say I'd prefer them to smoke analogs by any means but I'm seeing kids that arnt even 16 vaping all the time and it saddens me that this has become the new cool thing, I guess it's better vaping is the new trend rather than cigs, I just wish they used it for its purpose instead of because its cool, for me it has worked wonders and I havnt smoked a cig in months and would hope that kids realize it's not a toy it's a tool.

 

[flowerpots]

I don't have a problem agreeing with everything you said, except the first sentence.
What followed can be said of nicotine-free vaping as well, so why assume that nicotine is going to eventually enter the picture?

I'm assuming it's a possibility, and don't think it's worth the risk of entering that habit, if it's a possibility. I see this debate as analogous to the teenage pregnancy thing and having birth control for teenagers. One thing leads to another, it's a risk being sexually active, and it should not be taken lightly for someone who could alter their life (and someone else's) with the wrong steps. It's not a great leap one would take from 0 nicotine to dabbling into nicotine eliquid, it's really not. If they are already forming the habit, that is the next step. It doesn't mean it will happen, it means it's a stronger possibility than with someone who does not vape or want to vape at all. So, why take the risk? Why not educate kids that there are better things to do, a better life to live, alternatives that are just as cool?

 

[DC2]

I can tell you all first hand being that I'm just out of highschool that the number of kids that vape is enormous, most of them were not smokers before and are not vaping zero nic juice.

Well, it's official then... say goodbye to flavors.

 

[HyperRealist]

I don't really care. I smoked when I was 14. Vape On young bucks. I'm not going to pretend to be a morally superior role model. Do what ya like.

 

[patkin]

I had the opportunity to spend three hours riding with an 18 year-old guy. He's a non-smoker who grew up with both mom and dad smoking and said he didn't think he would ever smoke or vape. He said that half of his friends (he's a popular extrovert type) either smoke or vape and they all hang together. Only a few of the vapers started out vaping and did so instead of smoking. The rest converted from smoking but none have taken up smoking after starting out vaping. He said that when he was in high school (recent) the smoking/vaping ratio was about 50/50. I got the impression that the non-smoking/smoking/vaping subject is something these kids discuss pretty in-depth among themselves. They don't seem to be impressionable or peer-pressured in this area like my generation was. They're way more mature and informed on many subjects (media/internet/more open society.) I was pretty impressed actually.

 

[Uma]

OP, if a vaper grabs a stinkie..take a pic of their face. Priceless. Oh and be sure to back up a few steps before he vomits on your shoes.

tapatypo

 

[kristin]

I never let my kids know I smoked until they were in their late teens and then I started vaping soon after. By the time I had been vaping for 3 years, they were both over 18 and started smoking. Me -Miss "vaping advocate" - had 2 sons start SMOKING when they knew all about vaping. (Both had bar/restaurant jobs, where a LOT of staff smoke.) Thankfully, about a year later they started vaping instead. Now in their early 20's, they say more and more of their friends vape. One of my sons actually started vaping because his roommate started first.

I find it very hard to believe that kids who started vaping without ever having smoked, wouldn't be smoking now if e-cigarettes had never been invented. With all of the fuss ANTZ are making over e-cigarettes and flavors, it's no wonder kids want to try them. Had e-cigarettes been left alone and only described as "healthier options for smokers" I doubt most kids would even find them very intriguing. "Healthier option to "cool" smoking for old people? BORING! GEEKY!" But now ANTZ have made them cool for the daring.

But because we know the health risks are very low, we can expect young adults to try them just as they would other things intended for adults - coffee, alcohol, tobacco, etc. If we believe that vaping truly isn't anymore of a health risk than caffeine, alcohol, sugar and fat (all things we should avoid) then how do we condemn a young adult from starting vaping anymore than doing those other things that "aren't necessarily good for you but are unlikely to kill you?" No, I wouldn't tell a non-smoking person "Try these you'll like them" anymore than I would encourage a person to drink caffeine. But I'm certainly not going to be surprised or judgmental should they decide for themselves that they want to do it. I don't vape just for a safer alternative. I vape because I enjoyed smoking and now I enjoy vaping. If vaping was available back when I started smoking, I'm almost certain I would have tried it, too. Who am I to decide that someone else can't have that same reason?

(This is all my personal opinion and feelings. I am not speaking for CASAA policy on youth vaping here.)

 

[spartanstew]

Because one can only assume what someone else will do. Why do you assume he wouldn't start smoking analogs if not for vaping?

Unlike you, I don't make any assumptions.

Of course I would never encourage a young one to vape, but he's already vaping.

So, if you wouldn't encourage it, then wouldn't you by definition discourage it when you found out that vaping was taking place?

But to tell me not to consider any suppositions of possibilities of what might happen is like asking me to buy a car without research and factoring how much insurance I would pay for a car and how does it fit in my financial budget.

Unfortunately, logic is not something everyone is blessed with. I never said not to consider all possibilities (which, btw, you didn't, you only considered one), I said not to factor them in to the equation. As to your example, I'm not really sure where to begin. Having to get car insurance is an absolute, and while I'm not sure how familiar you are with statistical probability, I'm confident that you're at least familiar with what an absolute is and that it has no bearing on the topic being discussed, right?

Vaping by non-smokers is not a good idea any way you look at it. As mentioned above, it has the potential to lead to nicotine addiction and an outside chance of leading to analogs, at least occasionally (I believe). If you care for a non-smoker that starts vaping, they should be discouraged from doing so. If (and it's a big if), they end up smoking analogs instead, then they can be introduced to vaping.

 

[kristin]

this is a life saving tool for smokers to basically finally live a healthy lifestyle and enjoy life they have always wanted without analogs.

If you are using the e-cigarette to wean off nicotine and be completely abstinent of both nicotine and vaping, then it makes sense for you to feel it's stupid for your cousin to start using an e-cigarette when he never smoked.

But a lot of people start using e-cigarettes because they didn't really want to quit nicotine and the habit, they just didn't want to die from it. They wanted all of the pleasures and benefits of smoking without the risk. Key phrase there: "pleasures and benefits of smoking." Some people really enjoyed smoking and now they really enjoy vaping. Many enjoy it so much they do it even after going to 0 nicotine. There's no reason to think that people who have never smoked wouldn't enjoy vaping the same as a lot of vapers who smoked. It's kind of like assuming that someone who never drank alcohol could enjoy non-alcoholic beer or someone who never drank caffeinated coffee would enjoy decaf.

There is an old saying that if we had chosen to smoke tea leaves to get caffeine, we'd be facing an epidemic of "tea-related disease and death" today. If we had been smoking tea for the past 1,000 years and someone came up with a relatively safe way of getting caffeine -say, steeping it in water - would we consider drinking tea to only be a safer alternative for tea addicts? Or, knowing what we know about steeped tea today, would we be OK with a 20 year old deciding he wanted to start drinking tea, even if he never would have smoked it?

(Again - my personal opinion.)

 

[kristin]

If (and it's a big if), they end up smoking analogs instead, then they can be introduced to vaping.

You are basically suggesting that people should try smoking before they try vaping?

Honestly, there is ZERO evidence that vaping could lead to smoking. Why would someone go from a pleasant-tasting, safe vapor to harsh-tasting smoke that could kill them? Even a LOT of smokers say that vaping makes cigarette smoke taste unpalatable to them. It did for me and I REALLY enjoyed smoking. It's like saying drinking wine coolers leads to drinking straight 151 or drinking orange soda with caffeine leads to drinking black espresso.

There is also little evidence that nicotine in e-liquid is anymore addictive than it is in nicotine patches. We already know from vapers that nicotine isn't the only reason people smoke. It may not even be the main reason for a lot of people.

 

[patkin]

Because of the way I've been treated, there's no way I'm going to be an anti-smoker nor anti-vaper... period. If, however, a person of any age, smoker or non-smoker, expresses to me that they're thinking about taking either one up, I'm going to encourage them to take up vaping INSTEAD of smoking after I get through describing my experience with both from a pleasure perspective as well as a more in-depth health one than they've probably heard. And, I will also describe my own battle with addiction whether that be to the substance nicotine or shopping and how addiction to anything has the potential of being harmful in numerous ways and, therefore, not a wise choice. I know this because I've already done it on several occasions and recently.

 

[flowerpots]

...If (and it's a big if), they end up smoking analogs instead, then they can be introduced to vaping.

You are basically suggesting that people should try smoking before they try vaping?

I don't think spartanstew was suggesting that young people should try smoking before vaping. There was a logical process in that sentence...

Vaping by non-smokers is not a good idea any way you look at it. As mentioned above, it has the potential to lead to nicotine addiction and an outside chance of leading to analogs, at least occasionally (I believe). If you care for a non-smoker that starts vaping, they should be discouraged from doing so. If (and it's a big if), they end up smoking analogs instead, then they can be introduced to vaping.

I think the point being made is, vaping is introducing nicotine, unless someone is using 0mg nicotine. That leads to nicotine addiction (I'm sure some will want to disagree with this) with chronic use. Unless someone already has this issue, why introduce it, why form the habit and encourage someone to have a life-long addiction, or at least one that they then have to get over? I would not encourage someone young who doesn't drink coffee all the time to take up that habit either. If they do, yes, that's their choice that they are entitled to. But, it doesn't make it a great choice or one without consequences. I would just want more for others, especially those who are just starting to live their adult lives. I would want to encourage those things that have the potential to bring them a better life than I have had in some ways.

We do not know the long-term effects of vaping. One way or the other, we simply don't know.

 

[dr g]

I just wish they used it for its purpose instead of because its cool, for me it has worked wonders and I havnt smoked a cig in months and would hope that kids realize it's not a toy it's a tool.

Its purpose is to vaporize nicotine. Sounds like they were using it for what it's for.

I don't think spartanstew was suggesting that young people should try smoking before vaping. There was a logical process in that sentence...


I think the point being made is, vaping is introducing nicotine, unless someone is using 0mg nicotine. That leads to nicotine addiction (I'm sure some will want to disagree with this) with chronic use. Unless someone already has this issue, why introduce it, why form the habit and encourage someone to have a life-long addiction, or at least one that they then have to get over? I would not encourage someone young who doesn't drink coffee all the time to take up that habit either. If they do, yes, that's their choice that they are entitled to. But, it doesn't make it a great choice or one without consequences. I would just want more for others, especially those who are just starting to live their adult lives. I would want to encourage those things that have the potential to bring them a better life than I have had in some ways.

We do not know the long-term effects of vaping. One way or the other, we simply don't know.

What's wrong with coffee? Sheesh ...

 

[Radar2013]

By law if they are 18 they are allowed to buy a pack of analogs HOWEVER (and this is where this gets sticky), Nicotine is considered to be a drug and a stimulant. Far less of a stimulant than Alcohol but never the less a stimulant. I feel that since Nicotine is a drug there should be some stipulations on this and these stipulations needs to be placed by the vendors and vape shops before the Government actually does step in. Vape shops and vendors need to put signs up in their shops "No One Under 18 Admitted". Then in order to be sold a bottle of juice with Nicotine in it you must be 21 and they should card the customer. I don't care if its 6mgs of nicotine. If you are under 21 but 18 yrs of age You can purchase any 0 nicotine flavor you want.

When I was in the Vape shop today there was a 16 yr. old girl standing in line. I saw her wave at a woman through the window who was sitting in her car and talking on her cell phone. Obviously her mother. This girl purchased 3 juices of 24mg nicotine. Was not carded nor asked her age. She walked back out to the car and handed the woman the bag.

If its illegal for merchants to sell a pack of Analogs to anyone under the age of 18 then it needs to be illegal to sell a bottle of nicotine juice to the same. But as I stated I feel that it should be illegal for the sale of Nicotine juice to anyone under the age of 21.

As the author of this post stated: His cousin was doing it because everyone at college was doing it. Peer pressure. That is the worst thing.

I smoke from the time I was 15 up until 2 months ago when I started Vaping ( I am now 45) If I knew then what I know now and I could go back in time I would beat my ever lovin ... for even starting the analogs.. I started for 3 reasons 1) peer pressure, 2 everyone in my family smoked, 3) stress. Reason 1 to fit in, reason 2 Monkey See Monkey Do, Reason 3 I had to grow up before my time because I had to take care of my baby sister because my mother couldn't for medical reasons.

If these kids wanna Vape by all means let them. Nicotine free until they are 21. When they are 21 then they can decide whether or not they want to try the nicotine...