Kind of wonder what prompted Lowe's to take a position one way or other. Suspicion is it was some hell bent vaper saying I'm cool and the laws don't apply to me - go take a hike. And from Lowe's point of view - there are laws and there is policy. What goes on in their store is up to them as long as within the law. What, supposedly 75% of Americans are non-smokers. So - what is your POLICY if forced?
Lowe"s bans the use of e-cigs on it's property
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I certainly agree with vote with your dollars. On other hand I think their policy is no big deal. To me, seems reasonable to refrain from smoking or vaping while inside, near others, near kids looking for habits to develop, etc. My suspicion is that it is more print/PR than realism. I suspect that if I headed to the blocks and pavers I could get away with smoking - or vaping. What - I don't have enough control to wait 10 minutes till in my car. I personally wish they would ban tattoos (or the display of tattoos) and pants too low to run from plumbing to hardware in less than 2 minutes. But I'm probably from old world. But still not inclined to blow H2O, second hand smoke, etc. in someones who just came in to buy his/her new air filter. They have rights too even if they can't pass the plumbing to hardware test.
I recently purchased a mobilehome in So-Cal, and spent quite a nice amount of money @Lowes.
In august I'll be back in california and I still have plenty of work to do on the house.
I'll drive 9 miles more and go to THD.
This is just plain silly.
In august I'll be back in california and I still have plenty of work to do on the house.
I'll drive 9 miles more and go to THD.
This is just plain silly.
Replied On 05/03/11 19:36:51
Dear Lowe's Customer:
Thank you for giving Lowe's an opportunity to respond to your e-mail. We are extremely proud of our customer service, however; we are eager to hear customer feedback so we can identify opportunities to improve our service and customer satisfaction.
Your information has been forwarded to the appropriate department within Lowe's for review.
If Lowe's can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us by replying to this email.
Thank you,
Lowe's Executive Support
May 12, 2011
Mr. xxxxx
Lowes Companies, Inc.
1605 Curtis Bridge Road
Wilkesboro, NC 28697
Dear Mr. xxxx,
I just received conformation from your company that Lowe's Home Improvement has updated its no smoking policy to now include Electronic Cigarettes or Ecigs. I think that a ban on anything should only be considered in extreme situations where there is a real harm to bystanders. Electronic cigarettes do not fall into that category. Since I have been a loyal customer of Lowes for decades I wanted to let you know why this policy will no longer allow me to be a customer of Lowes.
It is obvious that since Lowes is linking the use of electronic cigarettes (I prefer the name Personal Vaporizer or PV) and regular cigarettes your Policy and Research departments have not done their homework. Using an Electronic Cigarette is not smoking. It is an extremely effective device that is helping millions of people to quit smoking. Let me provide a little perspective. Simply put the electronic cigarette is a battery with a heating element that converts a solution of Nicotine, Propylene Glycol and flavoring into vapor. It has no combustion, no smoke, no second hand smoke, no side stream smoke, creates no ashes, no butts, no carbon monoxide, no lingering smell, no tar and virtually none of the thousands of other chemicals and carcinogens found in tobacco cigarettes. When you get down to the bottom line there is only one thing this device does that could remotely have an effect on anyone else exhaled nicotine. The liquid used in this device has a diluted amount of nicotine and the user absorbs virtually all of that. The nicotine that is being exhaled is so miniscule that its insignificant and on par with the breath of someone chewing nicotine gum. If you want to be consistent in your policies you should also ban nicotine gum. Perhaps you should also put a ban on coffee. You cant have people running around the store with a cup of coffee spewing out all of that caffeine vapor.
The explanation for this ban is Lowe's desires to support the public health and safety of its employees and customers. What this statement shows me is that Lowes did not do its research and is more politically correct than practical. The hypocrisy is stunning. On one hand you state that you desire to protect the health of the public by banning a product that is saving lives. At the same time the other hand is selling and exposing people to products that are down right toxic. You have a whole section in your stores devoted to poison and another selling arsenic laced lumber. Have you ever been by the swimming pool section at your stores? I have and a couple of minutes there makes me dizzy. I have to plan what I need, hold my breath, run in and get my chlorine and run away before I can breath again.
If it is the desire for Lowes to support public health I would urge you to do a more thorough investigation regarding electronic cigarettes. You might start with The Consumer Advocates for Smoke Free Alternatives Association (casaa.org), or contact Dr. Michael Siegel who is a Professor in the Department of Community Health Sciences, Boston University School of Public Health who is an expert in this field. My hope is that after some thorough research Lowes will embrace and encourage the use of the Electronic Cigarette as an alternative to smoking. Be a leader and help to educate your employees and the public about this lifesaving device. I will assure you that your employees will be a healthier and happier group and your former customers will return with a great deal of respect for correcting such a huge mistake.
Sincerely,
Mr. xxxxx
Lowes Companies, Inc.
1605 Curtis Bridge Road
Wilkesboro, NC 28697
Dear Mr. xxxx,
I just received conformation from your company that Lowe's Home Improvement has updated its no smoking policy to now include Electronic Cigarettes or Ecigs. I think that a ban on anything should only be considered in extreme situations where there is a real harm to bystanders. Electronic cigarettes do not fall into that category. Since I have been a loyal customer of Lowes for decades I wanted to let you know why this policy will no longer allow me to be a customer of Lowes.
It is obvious that since Lowes is linking the use of electronic cigarettes (I prefer the name Personal Vaporizer or PV) and regular cigarettes your Policy and Research departments have not done their homework. Using an Electronic Cigarette is not smoking. It is an extremely effective device that is helping millions of people to quit smoking. Let me provide a little perspective. Simply put the electronic cigarette is a battery with a heating element that converts a solution of Nicotine, Propylene Glycol and flavoring into vapor. It has no combustion, no smoke, no second hand smoke, no side stream smoke, creates no ashes, no butts, no carbon monoxide, no lingering smell, no tar and virtually none of the thousands of other chemicals and carcinogens found in tobacco cigarettes. When you get down to the bottom line there is only one thing this device does that could remotely have an effect on anyone else exhaled nicotine. The liquid used in this device has a diluted amount of nicotine and the user absorbs virtually all of that. The nicotine that is being exhaled is so miniscule that its insignificant and on par with the breath of someone chewing nicotine gum. If you want to be consistent in your policies you should also ban nicotine gum. Perhaps you should also put a ban on coffee. You cant have people running around the store with a cup of coffee spewing out all of that caffeine vapor.
The explanation for this ban is Lowe's desires to support the public health and safety of its employees and customers. What this statement shows me is that Lowes did not do its research and is more politically correct than practical. The hypocrisy is stunning. On one hand you state that you desire to protect the health of the public by banning a product that is saving lives. At the same time the other hand is selling and exposing people to products that are down right toxic. You have a whole section in your stores devoted to poison and another selling arsenic laced lumber. Have you ever been by the swimming pool section at your stores? I have and a couple of minutes there makes me dizzy. I have to plan what I need, hold my breath, run in and get my chlorine and run away before I can breath again.
If it is the desire for Lowes to support public health I would urge you to do a more thorough investigation regarding electronic cigarettes. You might start with The Consumer Advocates for Smoke Free Alternatives Association (casaa.org), or contact Dr. Michael Siegel who is a Professor in the Department of Community Health Sciences, Boston University School of Public Health who is an expert in this field. My hope is that after some thorough research Lowes will embrace and encourage the use of the Electronic Cigarette as an alternative to smoking. Be a leader and help to educate your employees and the public about this lifesaving device. I will assure you that your employees will be a healthier and happier group and your former customers will return with a great deal of respect for correcting such a huge mistake.
Sincerely,
I payed a visit to Lowes to have a look at a shed for my wife's goat "barn". I vaped while looking. No one helped me. I left and ordered it online from Home Depot.
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Except that A) it perpetuates the misinformation and B) they've said you can't do it in their parking lots - so no, you can't just wait til you get to your car. You have to wait til you leave their property.
E-mail sent and I too will be boycotting their store until policy is changed. I'm getting sick of these misinformed people making ridiculous policies!
I somewhat hesitate to comment further but - what is the "misinformation" perpetrated? I hope you are not suggesting that we know that second hand vape is 100%, absolutely safe. Also, I have done plenty of business with Lowe's over the years and have, I suppose, reasonable knowledge of how they operate (in my area) their stores. I personally don't ever see vaping in ones car in their parking lot ever being a real issue. To me it's kind of like the rule to high school student that are allowed to bring cell phones to school where rule is - no cell phone use while at school. Student says - OK Mr. Principal. I guess we all know that none of those teenagers ever use their cell phones at school. Should that Lowe's employee who is gathering carts tap on my window and say "Mr. JW - no vaping in parking lot", I think I might say, Oh! OK, I was just checking the time on by PV.
The onus is on antis to prove that vaping is not safe - not the other way around.
I was in a Lowes yesterday, and coming in to the parking lot I was looking for signs for No Smoking. Did not see any. The only one I saw was the usual "Smoke Free" on the entrance door. I did notice the absence of the .... can by the door. Maybe all Lowes do not have the signs up yet.
I somewhat disagree here. I think what we are really talking about is a policy of Lowe's. I don't view their policy as a policy of being either anti or pro. I think it was a policy that was forced by a pro party (speculation on my part about "being forced"). To the non-vaper, vaping can look awfully similar to smoking. Lowe's is not the FDA and they are not going to do scientific research to determine if second hand vape is safe. They really have no obligation (IMO) to investigate what this "new thing" that some people are calling vaping actually is. A concern to them would be "is someone going to sue us" should we adopt a policy that says its OK to vape in our stores. To me it is not unfathomable that some anti just might bring some suit that they have been harmed by second hand vape encountered in a Lowe's and Lowe's is responsible because they allowed it. Vaper would probably be in such a suit but deep pockets would be Lowe's. The lower risk course for them - if forced - is to adopted a policy that it is not OK. "We don't really know - but it sure looks a lot like smoking - so lets just make our policy "no" and let those that wish to vape prove if safe." If safe, and it can be proven - we will allow it. If FDA says its safe - we will allow it. And with any "allowing" also presuming that local ordinances (which might change by time "proof" is provided) also allows it. So - for the case at hand - I think what has probably produced this policy of Lowe's is not that the antis have made such a good case but instead that the pros have not made their case.
I personally think banning PV's for *employees* INDOORS makes sense. I see no reason for it to apply to customers. It's not exactly professional to walk around vaping. Just like you wouldn't chew gum or have a lollipop hanging out of your mouth while dealing with customers. Now if you are shut into a little office or cubicle and don't have to deal with the general public, there's no real reason for a ban. As for the whole tobacco-free workplace thing...to go as far as to include outdoor areas is ludicrous and trampling on people's rights. I've heard of a few places doing this and it simply makes no sense to me. In spite of all of the anti-tobacco campaigning and legislation, I believe around 21% of adults still smoke and that percentage hasn't budged. Not sure if that figure includes chewing tobacco/snus, etc. Even if that number was 5%, outdoor air is OUTDOOR air. If someone is at the back of the store or in the parking lot ( right in front of the entrance being no-smoking is understandable to me ), they should absolutely be able to smoke if they choose.
If they are going to institute a ban that is going to effect their customers on such a personal level the very least they can do is investigate. Im not talking about a full-fledged scientific investigation but a minimal amount of research would have set off some red flags. It is obvious that they didnt do any research at all because as it stands now they see vaping as smoking, one and the same. Vaping is the reason I QUIT smoking and is causing no harm to anyone else especially in an environment like Lowes.
I agree that to a non-vaper that it might look similar to smoking but should a ban be based on their false perception? Dont they bear some responsibility for a false assumption? The person who is being harmed here is the vaper.
Had Lowes done its homework they would be equipped to educate a misinformed customer about vaping instead of interfering with another customers personal freedom.
How many big corporations do you think are really going to take the time and money to do that, though? Smokers are now a minority, vapers much more so. Hopefully our little "subculture" of vaping continues to grow, and I think it will given time and more information out there, but if every current vaper boycotted Lowe's, I doubt it would hurt their sales all that much. Not trying to be a debbie-downer, but it's just the way things work right now. Kudos to those of you in organizations like CASAA. I know I personally like to rage over the demonization of smokers but I really haven't done anything about it. Thanks to this site I am learning more. A few months ago, before I started vaping, I was completely clueless about all these issues surrounding it. Didn't even know things like CASAA existed.
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Had I seen this thread I would not have spent $100+ of lead testing stuff at Lowe's the other night or any of my other recent purchases from them. They know me well at my local Lowe's already, I think I'm going to make a point of this. -Magnus
I have not read the entire thread, the link to which is this http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/media-general-news/183533-wow-if-you-havent-read-do-now.html
But at the first post there look at the link given and what has been done by some of the antis. The thread does provide some pro info and anti, anti information. Nonetheless, the info provided there, at least as I see, does suggest that if Lowe's have done a little research, even after the research, their "safest" and less suit potential course would have been to include e-cigs in same category as smoking. There are some zealots on the anti side!
I agree with just about everything you said in your post.
How many big corporations do you think are really going to take the time and money to do that? None if we just roll over and die. We have to be very pro-active.
I agree just boycotting with our numbers will have little effect unless they know why we are upset. Thats why CASAA, ECF, blogs, emails, letters, phone calls and word of mouth is so important. Please get active. Even with our small numbers we can create a situation that might lead them to re-think the issue.
Lowes has every right to dictate policy in their stores. I used to shop there and never think about my PV. Take or leave it but they made an issue out of it and needs to know that when they institute a policy as stupid as this one they should be taken to task.
A Huge AMEN to that Valsacar! Especially those people that feel they need to Bathe in that crap! I always make a comment as I go by them that "somebody must stink so bad that they have to cover the stink up with perfumes / cologne instead of taking a bath with good old fashioned Soap and Water!"
Richard
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