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gorman

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gorman

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What symptoms does somebody with nickel allergy display. Since I was eager to try my new Apollo Reliant I started vaping with Nickel, first with a coil I made and later with a Zephyrus Ni200 coil I had. On my upper palate I developed some discomfort and now that I switched to Titanium it seems to be going away, it's left some... "reliefs" on my upper palate that I think are going away. Is this something common with people with nickel allergy?
 

Trexwyo

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I've been reading this link from start to finish and I have found it very interesting and very useful. Thank you everybody for your contribution. I've got an idea that may help you out a little. There are Temperature Indicating Crayons. These are usually sort of a wax base that can be applied to a metal and when a specific temperature is reached. They melt or change color. Metal workers and welders often use these crayons to determine the temperature of a metal that requires annealing or preheating before welding or machining. just wondering if you guys could benefit from using these. of course I'd not use the coil for vaping once the crayon was applied but they may be useful in determination of an accurate TCR when doing dry burn testing???? They are usually low cost and probably available at your local welding supply business.

See this supplier as an example showing what is available; Temperature Crayons Manufactures, Temperature Crayons Suppliers, Exporters They offer approximately 125 different crayons that indicate the temperature over a range of 40 degrees C to 1200 degrees C.
 

xpen

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A weird question: I'd like to use only ONE wire (material, type, and possibly diameter) for all of my needs, that is TC mods (DNA40), non-TC mods and mechs. Yeah, I know.. :)

The only logical choice would seem to be SS wire, because of its low TCR and dry-burnability (geez, is that a word?)

The only problem is that SS wire sports a very low resistance, thus for non-TC mods that'd mean either huge coils or extremely low resistance, with which I'm not exactly comfortable on mechs *.

What might be the best tradeoff, among the plethora of SS wires available? 317L? 430? Or possibly some other (dry-burnable) materials?

Note: a higher TCR would indeed provide sort of an initial boost on a mech, quickly followed by a mellower vape when the resistance increases.

Thanks for any suggestions, and feel free to bring me back to sanity if you see any flaws with my reasoning..

* Ideal target for me would be around 0.4-0.5ohm, can probably adapt to live with something around 0.25ohm.
All of my mech batteries can cope with at least 20A continuous, so no worries.
 

TheBloke

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TheBloke, although I've kept up with this thread, could you save me some time and recommend a European vendor with clean SS wire and a well-known TCR, for me to try out?

I can recommend two:

ZIVipf in Germany, great guy, huge stock of wire. Has SS 304 (called V2A) and SS 316 (V4A) in a whole bunch of sizes. Get the 304 because its TCR is a bit higher. He also has Titanium, NiFe70, and soon - most interestingly - NiFe52.

V2A Stainless Steel Wire - Zivipf Onlineshop

And one I recently discovered and tried this week, UK, wires.co.uk. Has SS 304 in a range of sizes. Good prices - less than £3 including VAT for 15m - a little cheaper than ZiVipf. Unfortunately, they don't ship on spools (at least 15m doesnt.) Just tied together (twice, securely) in a labelled baggie. Actually hasn't turned out to be as bad as I thought - I can still get wire off quite easily, I haven't felt there's a risk of unwanted de-spooling, and it's actually proved quicker for de-spooling longer sections of wire in one go. wires.co.uk : Stainless Steel 304 Wire

If it doesn't matter to you where in Europe, choose ZiVipf because he's a good guy with a great selection. But for anyone wanting UK delivery, I can vouch for wires.co.uk based on my one order so far.
 

TheBloke

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A weird question: I'd like to use only ONE wire (material, type, and possibly diameter) for all of my needs, that is TC mods (DNA40), non-TC mods and mechs. Yeah, I know.. :)

The only logical choice would seem to be SS wire, because of its low TCR and dry-burnability (geez, is that a word?)

The only problem is that SS wire sports a very low resistance, thus for non-TC mods that'd mean either huge coils or extremely low resistance, with which I'm not exactly comfortable on mechs *.

What might be the best tradeoff, among the plethora of SS wires available? 317L? 430? Or possibly some other (dry-burnable) materials?

Note: a higher TCR would indeed provide sort of an initial boost on a mech, quickly followed by a mellower vape when the resistance increases.

Thanks for any suggestions, and feel free to bring me back to sanity if you see any flaws with my reasoning..

* Ideal target for me would be around 0.4-0.5ohm, can probably adapt to live with something around 0.25ohm.
All of my mech batteries can cope with at least 20A continuous, so no worries.

As @f1vefour said, the resistance of SS is very good - it's the best (highest) of all the wires we talk about here.

So yeah, SS sounds like a good choice for you, given you want low TCR and high resistance. That stated requirement pretty much rules out the NiFes, although they do vape VW very well.

Excluding dual coil, I would say a common lower-end NiFe70 resistance might be 0.16Ω - that is 8 x 3mm wraps of 26G. For NiFe52, that will go up to about 0.30Ω. If you want 24G or dual coils, obviously a lot less.

But the TCRs are high, higher than Titanium. Some people actually do vape Titanium on mechs, because they like that "slanting" vape. But maybe you'd rather not have it? In any case, it will be more extreme with NiFe52 (0.004 vs Titanium's 0.0035) and even more so with NiFe70 (0.005)

And we can't yet comment on the usability of the NiFes on normal-sized spools. I don't know if it will be springy, strong, etc. Based on the thinner NiFe70 I have, it will be a little springy. But I have no idea for NiFe52 - I hope to know in 1-2 weeks.

Use of SS assumes that every one of your TC mods supports TCR adjustment? Or at least, that you're OK with vaping any non-TCR adjusting TC mods in VW mode.

If you do choose SS, then on current experience, SS 304 is the one to go for. Beautiful usability - soft but strong, zero spring, malleable, just lovely. TCR a little higher than 316/317, always above 0.001 in the vaping range: this is a useful attribute for TC given 0.001 is the lower limit on nearly all TCR adjusting mods, and it's only slightly higher so it's not going to be so much more noticeable on your non-TC vapes.

SS 430 is quite new to us. It has a 40% higher TCR, around 0.0014. That will be a benefit to ultimate accuracy, but whether that interferes with your low TCR requirement, I'm not sure.

It has 0% Nickel content, unlike SS 304 (8%) and NiFes (52-70%).

I believe resistance is basically the same as 304, so no difference there.

SS 430 currently has three known downsides:
  • It's only known to be available from one vendor: Unkamen in the US
  • It's currently only available in one size: 28G
  • Based on @Landman 's early experience, it is not quite as nice to use as SS 304; it is springy, perhaps nearly as springy as Titanium.
    • Not the end of the world by any means, but it's a nice attribute of SS that is not there.

So it's up to you whether the potential downside in usability, and the limits on availability and sizes, are worth an increased TCR and 0% Nickel (versus 8% in SS304). Given your use case, I would assume higher TCR is probably not such a big deal.
 
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TheBloke

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Yeah if you're ordering from Unkamen anyway, it's absolutely worth a try giving it's also incredibly cheap at the moment ($5 for a huge amount, 100 feet or something? 200??)

And yeah using a smaller rod works. My problem is that 3.0mm is a great size to fit in all my atomizers - using as much space as is available, without causing any hassle when I fit it. 3.25mm, as I usually get with Titanium, is a tighter fit in some of my atomizers, sometimes requires adjusting and fiddling. I hate fiddling.

My next smallest rod is 2.5mm, which would give me 2.7mm - smaller than I want. I need a 2.9mm rod, but I can't find anything like that.

Actually what I really want is an expandable diameter rod. Sort of like telescoping, except it expands in diameter not length. So you can turn a screw or preferably a knob, it gets wider, and it's got a gauge to tell you how wide it now is. Actually the gauge is optional because I could just measure it with callipers.

That would be awesome!
 

xpen

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Thanks for the quick (and extensive!) replies, @f1vefour and @TheBloke.

From a quick glance to the CrazyWire website I was mistakenly assuming that SS had about 1/10 of the resistance of the same gauge Kanthal A1 wire.. That not being the case, apparently, I'm all set ;)

Considering the low cost of SS wire, I can afford to buy multiple sizes/types of it, and test them all to my heart's content.

My DNA40 can't unfortunately cope with ad-hoc wire profiles, but that's nothing a bit of T offset can't fix.

Sounds like a plan.. :D

Thanks again
 

TheBloke

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Thanks for the quick (and extensive!) replies, @f1vefour and @TheBloke.

From a quick glance to the CrazyWire website I was mistakenly assuming that SS had about 1/10 of the resistance of the same gauge Kanthal A1 wire.. That not being the case, apparently, I'm all set ;)

Considering the low cost of SS wire, I can afford to buy multiple sizes/types of it, and test them all to my heart's content.

My DNA40 can't unfortunately cope with ad-hoc wire profiles, but that's nothing a bit of T offset can't fix.

Sounds like a plan.. :D

Thanks again

Yeah Crazy Wire's resistance numbers are often wrong. Use the Wire Wizard, it's far superior and has all the wires we talk about here except, currently, SS 430.

Temperature offset with Stainless Steel? Hmm, untested. On my list to try. Might work. But I've heard others report that it does not. At the least it should prevent dry hits, even if it doesn't accurately regulate/can't pass a cotton burn test.

You can get the numbers to try from Wire Wizard's "Ni200 equivalence" chart (which is actually a DNA 40 Equivalence chart, because the numbers listed only apply to the DNA 40 and its full Ni200 curve implementation; Yihi and other mods will require lower numbers, which might rule them out for SS offsets - if even the DNA 40 can do them.)

And yes, I thoroughly approve of buying lots of wire and trying it all :)
 
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xpen

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Further to the above:

SS 430 sounds very nice, but US-only availability puts it out of my reach - don't want to go thru the hassle with the Italian customs ever again..

Yes, an higher TCR wouldn't bother me in the least. It may even be regarded as a feature, on mechs.

Significantly lower resistance, on the other hand, would raise some hell with my smaller drippers. That rules out the NiFe family of wires, I'm afraid. Pity, for they would look like great candidates for my 'all-in-one' use case. (all-with-one?)
 
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TheBloke

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Further to the above:

SS 430 sounds very nice, but US-only availability puts it out of my reach - don't want to go thru the hassle with the Italian customs ever again..

Yes, an higher TCR wouldn't bother me in the least. It may be even seen as a feature, on mechs.

Significantly lower resistance, on the other hand, would raise some hell with my smaller drippers. That rules out the NiFe family of wires, I'm afraid. Pity, for they would look like great candidates for my 'all-in-one' use case. (all-with-one?)

Fair enough.

Don't forget the upcoming NiFe52 though. 26G, 8 x 3mm = 0.296Ω. That's not significantly low, in my view. Put it up to 28G, same sized coil, and it's 0.444Ω.

What is your lower limit on resistance for your mechs/batteries?
 
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f1vefour

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I just spent 20 minutes looking for ceramic rods to coil with. I figure if I could wrap on ceramic and install, I could pulse the 430 SS while keeping it taught to prevent the backlash. Seems it would be a common thing to find all types of ceramic rods but apparently not so much, not in the US anyway.
 

TheBloke

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I use Sony VTC4 and Samsung 25R, they should be good for 30A and 20A continuous, respectively.
That translates conservatively to 0.15 and 0.20 ohm, but I don't like to play it close to limits, so let's make it collectively 0.25ohm (16A)

PS: like you, my mandrel of choice is a 3mm bit/rod

OK so I reckon NiFe52 should generally be fine, unless you always want 24G or thicker - or twisted of 2x26 or more. But you said you battle with small decks, so I doubt you want really thick wire?

24G x 8 x 3mm = 0.199Ω, so that's out of your range. But 26 and thicker is fine, around 0.30Ω and above.

I will have NiFe52 I hope in the next week, two max, so I will report back then as to how it handles.
 
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