#500 SS Mesh

[buffaloguy]

Ok, while Im gonna try my best to be helpful what I may say next might sound a bit unhelpful, at first.

100% VG, I understand your struggle with mesh but it really isnt all that hard to master. What I have seen in your recent posts are your efforts to try one technique after another because the last one didnt work. It sounds as if you are jumping on to the next technique without some mastery of the last one first. Either that, or some misunderstandings of the techniques you have tried.

Using mesh does work. And it can work remarkably well without much fiddling too. Yet, you have to know the exact limits and also benefits of the rba you are using... the post on the agat2 being to far from the wick hole causing a hot top leg is a perfect example of that. This way you can make adjustments to your wick and coil to avoid it.

My advice would be to start from scratch and srick with one technique until you master it. I started with hollow wicks, 32G kanthal, and the agat2. It took me hours and hours figuring out hotspots and bad coils. Ive been in your shoes.

Since then Ive moved on to solid wicks, lightly oxidized from the mid wick to the top, in the cobra, did, and agat. I have also worked heavily with flat kanthal, and different gauges of round wire. I can wrap and build a perfectly good mesh wick and coil at this point with 500mesh in about 15 minutes, minimal fiddling.

My point, it can be done but the basics are extremely important. While ceramic may be great its not what this thread is about. Its about mesh. Thats what you came here to know and learn. So learn it.

One step at a time. Me thinks, and I know you dont want to hear it, that you are jumping from one thing to another way too fast without the fundamentals down pat first. Stick to one thing... then once you got it, move on to the next.

Well, I guess I'm just gonna have to wait how ever long it takes for that BD13. But I can tell you now, while I'm generally not a quitter, I'm totally fed up with SS Mesh. I've tried it without oxidizing the mesh, and while I can get a coil to glow around the unoxidized mesh, even wrapped somewhat snugly (touching), by the time it gets there, the mesh is so black, there's no more capillary action to it, and the damn coil has changed from what was supposed to be over 2Ω to 1.6Ω. One even went down to 1.4Ω. And I can't Vape at over 3.7V without it tasting burnt. I couldn't even get it to work with a fully oxidized wick (well that was the first try). But I'm about ready to say Screw This!!! and go back to a Carto Tank. I guess I'll give fully oxidized under the coil area, and where it touches the tank, one more try.

But I'll get some Hemp Twine for my 2 AGA-T2's, and anything else I rebuild, and when it's available, I'll try the BD13.

 

[BigLungs]

I guess I don't understand the problems that some of you are having with mesh.

I am using 500 mesh from Steam Monkey in an Aga T+ version 2 on a mech. I much prefer using 28g kanthal A1.
I find with the 28g once I get it set up(which is a very fast process), I don't ever have to fiddle with it. I probably drop my PV
at least once a day as well and my coil never moves or develops hot spots.

I use 3 to 3 1/4 inches of 500 mesh rolled tight. I hit it with a flame once before rolling to give it a little stiffness. It then goes right into the wick hole. I do fold over the outside edge so I don't get frays first. I then to a tight 3/4 wrap with the 28g kanthal. Comes to 0.7ohm every time for me.
I then pulse the power while adjusting the coils with a micro flat head screwdriver.
It should take less than 60 seconds of pulsing and adjusting to work out all hot spots.

That's it! Fill with liquid and enjoy the great vape! Yes I use a 0.7ohm coil and I never get burnt taste and only need to tilt for the last 1/4 tank.
It's not hard at all. Just keep practicing on one technique instead of moving from one to the other.

I want to point out that I have tried the drill bit method before, and I feel it is a complete waste of time. You will never have a tight enough coil(in my opinion anyway).

Edit: I want to add that I started using 32g kanthal and it was very problematic. Too easy for it to move and develop hotspots. It is also very easy to pop your coil when pulsing. I have never blown a coil with 28g.

 

[100%VG]

Ok, while Im gonna try my best to be helpful what I may say next might sound a bit unhelpful, at first.

100% VG, I understand your struggle with mesh but it really isnt all that hard to master. What I have seen in your recent posts are your efforts to try one technique after another because the last one didnt work. It sounds as if you are jumping on to the next technique without some mastery of the last one first. Either that, or some misunderstandings of the techniques you have tried.

Using mesh does work. And it can work remarkably well without much fiddling too. Yet, you have to know the exact limits and also benefits of the rba you are using... the post on the agat2 being to far from the wick hole causing a hot top leg is a perfect example of that. This way you can make adjustments to your wick and coil to avoid it.

My advice would be to start from scratch and srick with one technique until you master it. I started with hollow wicks, 32G kanthal, and the agat2. It took me hours and hours figuring out hotspots and bad coils. Ive been in your shoes.

Since then Ive moved on to solid wicks, lightly oxidized from the mid wick to the top, in the cobra, did, and agat. I have also worked heavily with flat kanthal, and different gauges of round wire. I can wrap and build a perfectly good mesh wick and coil at this point with 500mesh in about 15 minutes, minimal fiddling.

My point, it can be done but the basics are extremely important. While ceramic may be great its not what this thread is about. Its about mesh. Thats what you came here to know and learn. So learn it.

One step at a time. Me thinks, and I know you dont want to hear it, that you are jumping from one thing to another way too fast without the fundamentals down pat first. Stick to one thing... then once you got it, move on to the next.

I appreciate your effort to help me, and I take no offence (I need all the help I can get, and I welcome it), but I'm really not jumping around. After that very first attempt, I've only been using this one method.

I make the run from (-) and (+) the same length, and I even raise the negative lead out of the Screw "Off the Deck" of the AGA slightly, so it's not grounded right up to the wick. Therefore, lead length is not the problem. You say, "lightly oxidized from the mid wick to the top," and that's what I would have started with next. I've only tried BJ's No-Center-Hole Mesh (won't call it "solid"), as I've read much of his work, and know better than to do some things. I've also watched numerous Videos. I just thought it would be easier than this. The only other thing I'll do next is to try to make sure that the Wick doesn't touch the Bottom of the AGA.

Since you say "lightly oxidized from the mid wick to the top," I think that sitting the rolled mesh in an empty carto tube might help that effort. And since you say "lightly oxidized," I'll work with that. However, I really think your "lightly oxidized from the mid wick to the top" suggestion might make all the difference. I haven't been doing that.

I haven't given up yet... I was just very frustrated. But now, after these two helpful suggestions, I'm (sorry, but) glad I did it here.

My AGA-T2 Center Posts move around (up & down), and the smallest disturbance messes up the coil (even after heavily glowing it), and the coil has to be re-oxidized, because I get shorts again. I make and glow the coil on one device, then move it to the VTube, and this seems to disturb the coil. As you may know, the VTube is a regulated device, so I cannot glow it on this one. I was getting pretty good at the coil on an unoxidized roll, but the disturbances mess it all up. Maybe the light oxidation will fix that for me.

I guess I don't understand the problems that some of you are having with mesh.

I am using 500 mesh from Steam Monkey in an Aga T+ version 2 on a mech. I much prefer using 28g kanthal A1.
I find with the 28g once I get it set up(which is a very fast process), I don't ever have to fiddle with it. I probably drop my PV
at least once a day as well and my coil never moves or develops hot spots.

I use 3 to 3 1/4 inches of 500 mesh rolled tight. I hit it with a flame once before rolling to give it a little stiffness. It then goes right into the wick hole. I do fold over the outside edge so I don't get frays first. I then to a tight 3/4 wrap with the 28g kanthal. Comes to 0.7ohm every time for me.
I then pulse the power while adjusting the coils with a micro flat head screwdriver.
It should take less than 60 seconds of pulsing and adjusting to work out all hot spots.

That's it! Fill with liquid and enjoy the great vape! Yes I use a 0.7ohm coil and I never get burnt taste and only need to tilt for the last 1/4 tank.
It's not hard at all. Just keep practicing on one technique instead of moving from one to the other.

I want to point out that I have tried the drill bit method before, and I feel it is a complete waste of time. You will never have a tight enough coil(in my opinion anyway).

Edit: I want to add that I started using 32g kanthal and it was very problematic. Too easy for it to move and develop hotspots. It is also very easy to pop your coil when pulsing. I have never blown a coil with 28g.

And it looks just that easy in the Videos, too.

I do the end flap bent under thing, too. I'm using 29g, but no one has said if Annealed is the right thing to use. Both my 30g and 29g say Annealed. But I will not use a coil as low as some of you do. I want/need it to be at least 2Ω, if not 2.5Ω. I don't like or want the heavy TH that some of you do, which may also mean that I may not get the Clouds that some of you do.

I may do your "hit it with a flame" too, if the light oxidation isn't enough. These things are supposed to help to keep it from unrolling, as well as add a little extra oxidation, maybe. I did learn that it doesn't take much movement with a screwdriver to work past the hot spots, so I'm pretty good at that now. And I stopped using the Drill Bit method for anything but a Natural Fiber Wick.


So two questions for y'all before I get started again...

1. Is Annealed Kanthal the right thing to use?

2. How tightly does you coil touch the mesh?

 

[harmonic]

Say vg maybe you should try tightening the bottom most nut on your center post on the aga - it might help keep the center pin from moving up and down so much. On mine its tightened down to where it actually starts sinking into the center insulator and I have even thought about adding a little washer there to help make it more secure but then you have to make sure you don't short it to the deck or any of the neg screws....

 

[CountSmackula]

...

2. How tightly does you coil touch the mesh?

What works for me is just touching the wick. Not so loose that you can pull the wick right out, but have to 'unscrew' it slightly so the coils don't distort.

 

[Teach]

So two questions for y'all before I get started again...

1. Is Annealed Kanthal the right thing to use?

2. How tightly does you coil touch the mesh?

VG - I haven't tried the annealed, but the process is to add flexibility of the wire. Sounds like a good thing since the wire cracking or fracturing would certainly be bad in a coil. It' s possible that all the kanthal is manufactured that way... not sure on that. When we heat and then let the wire cool slowly we're doing the same thing.

I wrap the coils as tight as I can so they seat against the mesh.

 

[100%VG]

I fianlly got a 2Ω coil to work (8/7 wrap of 30g), but geeze, it took forever... about 20 minutes just on the coil. I even oxidized the mesh this go round. I think there's something terribly wrong with this Annealed Kanthal. I didn't notice that it said Annealed on the eBay TEMco website, but that's what they sent me in both 30g and 29g, in two separate shipments. I'll check the website and Invoice later.

Like I've said, I know how to work out hot spots (figured it out before), but I'd no sooner get one worked out than another would start. I'd get it almost to the bottom, and the top would flash (sometimes welding it to the mesh, or shorting to the coil below past the gap - I could see a jumper), and I'd have to start over from the top again, with the same problem all over again. It was really weird, sometimes starting to glow in the center first, and then the top would flash. Luckily, I only blew the first coil, but that happened rather quickly, so I unwrapped one coil and tied it in, but that made it 1.6Ω, so I made another one. The 2nd one let me work with it for 20 minutes to get it working. It was barely snug, and slightly loose in some places... hot spot adjustments were easy for the most part. It just took so many of them.

It has to be the Annealed Kanthal, or maybe it's the mesh (with the jumpers). On top of this, my dang VTube just bit the dust. So I'm back to this now . . .

. . . only I don't love the Vivi Nova as much anymore. The AGA-T2 that I have working is doing pretty good on 5V from the computer Power Supply... at least it is right now. And I'm getting pretty nice plums. So you guys were right... the Mesh and AGA-T2 is pretty nice. I just need to work on technique. Oh, and the Flavor of my Dark City Vapor Triple V (Vanilla) is really good. I can't wait to get the other one going for the Vapors Choice Cinnamon Red Hots.

I'm going to vape it for a while, to see if I can get No Tilt Vaping from my No-Center-Hole Wick, as it was hot at first without Tilting. I haven't drilled out the Wick Hole, so it's still at 2.5mm, with a slightly smaller wick in it, but it's working OK now with a 50-60 degree Tilt on a nearly full Tank. And the original air hole in the cover is fine for me, probably because of a 2Ω coil. It's actually quite Airy.

I'll be back in a while to report on the No-Tilt Vaping.

I thank you all so very much for your support.


One last question . . .

Where do you get your Mesh? I bought mine from Richard Gibbons on eBay (Dubuque, IA). I'll have to get the Company Name later, too. It was Buy Two 6" x 6" Sheets at $4.39 each, and get one Free, with Free S&H. It says

6" x 6" 500 Mesh - Stainless Steel - Woven Wire Cloth Screen - Filtration USA

The order was filled and shipped very quickly.

And by the way... most of those previous posts were just Thinking Out Loud.




OK, I've been at writing this and editing it for a while now, and I can definitely say now, No Chain Vaping without Tilting. I was taking long breaks before while writing and editing. Crud, no Chain Vaping at all. Better with a nearly Full Tilt and a short break, but 5v is just too much for me at 2Ω. So it's back to working at a 2.5Ω Coil, but I'm finally getting there. Hell, I might need 3Ω until I can get the VTube back, which will be Weeks. I only had that one Mod. And since 3Ω with 30g is going to be impossible, I might try 1.6Ω at 3.3V. Not much Flavor or Vapor at 3.3V with 2Ω. But I'll find something that works.

Thanks again for the help and support.

Does anyone want to sell a VV or VW Mod they no longer use? Please PM me if you do.


OK, after another good while, I figured out what happened. The damn coil was disturbed again somehow, and the vapor got hot and harsh because the coil was glowing at the first wrap again. Either the Kanthal is no good, or the Mesh is no good, or BOTH!!! And I could not work out the Hot Spots this time.

I had adjusted the (+) Post Insulators, and tightened the nuts so there was no movement (BTW, the other AGA didn't do this), and the damn thing still went Hot and the Coil got messed up somehow. It was so good for a little while, I wondered why it went bad all of a sudden. I raised the Cap and looked under the Hood, and there it was, GLOWING at the Top again. So it's NOT ME. It's Crap Wire, or Crap Mesh, or BOTH.

So while I'm still asking questions, Where do you get your Kanthal, and how have you never been given Annealed?

Before I try to go any further with this, I have to have good things to work with. I need good Mesh, and I need good Kanthal. I know it can be good on 2Ω at 5V now... I just need good supplies to work with.

 

[100%VG]

I have an Update for you.

I wasn't ready to drill out the Wick Hole, so I wrapped a thin piece of Mesh around the Coil section of the Wick from last night, to make it a bigger diameter. I cut it to Coil Height, and tucked it inside the end roll of the Wick, to hold it in place, and rolled it in. I have a new coil going on that now. My VTube is bad, so I ohmed it on a meter. I guess it would have been about 2.3Ω, but the top wrap blew about 1/4 of the way around, so I unwrapped the first coil, tied it in, and adjusted the spreads. It meters at 2Ω, and I have it going with 5V on the computer Power Supply.

I haven't tried No-Tilt Vaping, since maybe that's what caused the problem last night (maybe it got too dry), but I've been using it for nearly 2 hours now. So far, so good. Nice Plums, and decent Flavor. I'll try again later to get a Coil going at 2.3Ω - 2.5Ω, but this one is working pretty good so far. I think that 2Ω would be great on a PV, where I could adjust the Voltage. I'll say too that some juices are better with more Heat. My Cinnamon Red Hots my be great on 2Ω at 5V. Haven't tried that yet, as I only have one AGA going right now. I'll do the same trick on the other one. Hey, maybe this way I could roll a Wick, and only oxidize the wrapped-in piece. I'll try that.

However, I'd still really appreciate knowing form some of you "Success Story" people where you get your Kanthal and Mesh. If you'd rather not Post that Info, then please send me a PM.

Also, I ordered a Kamry K200 today. A Very Dear Friend told me about Exhalevapors, and using Coupon Code VaporJoeJerseyJuice2 to bring the total down to $32.98. It's the PV only, and not a Full Kit with a Battery, but it's still a pretty good Price, and it has both VV and VW. I ordered Chrome from the 3 choices, with Priority Mail, so I should have it by Thursday, if not Wednesday.

 

[100%VG]

2nd Update . . .

Still Vaping on that Coil. I tried No-Tilt, and it started getting hot, so I quit doing that for now. But I can Chain Vape as long as I Tilt.

I emptied the Triple V and put in Red Hots (without rinsing). It took a few pulls, and the Red Hots started coming through. It's coming through quite well now. Been at that for about an hour now. The funny thing is, if I had VV, I could actually crank it up some. But the Flavor is nice, and I'm getting nice Plums. With about 5.2V, the Flavor would be Great!!!

I think the K200 will be Fun. The VV goes from 3.0V to 6.0V, but the VW can go from 5W to 15W, so there's plenty of Range there. I may never do 15W, but I think it's nice to have that Range. 5V at 2Ω is 12.5W, so this Range will be nice. IDK about the VW Increments, though. Don't know if it's 0.5 or 0.1. I couldn't find that in Reviews or Write-Ups, so I'll give a report on that when I get it. But when you're at 5V, a 0.1V Increase is about 0.5W anyway (0.505W to be exact), and as the Volts get higher, the Watt jump is even greater, so a 0.5W Increase up there is less than a 0.1V increase would make. I'm really looking forward to the K200.

 

[buffaloguy]

Gonna make this real simple for ya.

The agat2 "top leg hotspot" is a known issue with the agat2. The wick hole is just a smidge too far from the positive post. Until you move the top of the wick closer to the positive post your frustrations will continue... permanently.

There are a few solutions. You can lean the wick toward the positive post on install. Do this by pulling the top leg in more as you wrap the post before tightening the nut down.

You can mod the positive post by adding a small flat metal washer above the second nut giving the wire some metal surface to sit on shortening the distance between the post and top leg.

Or you can do a spring mod on the positive post. Basically that a combo of the existing nuts a spring and a washer. A very modified version of this is what I now use.

I dont need these mods on the DID or Cobra. Once you have fixed that issue then you can proceed to roll a solid wick, lightly torch the outside of it, make sure you have no stray mesh fibers along the trailing edge.

Wrap your wire SNUG around that wick... Not loose, not barely snug, SNUG. Not to the point of cutting into or crimping the wick ... but close to it. You want NO GAPS, no loose wraps. Those will cause hotspots. SNUG I SAY! Do a minor adjustment for spacing of the wire on the mesh.

insert wick with wire into wick hole. Tighten down the neg lead first. Then positive lead. leave the excess wire in case you need to undo the connections to make adjustments later. Just make sure those wires are up and away from the rest of the metal on the tank. The wick should be able to move in and out of the wire.... with a bit of difficulty at this point.

Now pull tour wick out and fire the coil... by itself at about 4.5v for two or three two second pulses... You are annealing your wire... yes its annealed already... all kanthal is. But this will give the coil shape and help to set itand make it stiffer.

Reinsert your wick. check closely for any gaps between the coil and wick. There should be zero, none, nada. If there are, unscrew the closest lead and pull the wire tighter. Remember? we left the extra wire from before. Rhis is why we didnt snip it off yet.

If all is good. Remove the wire leads left over from earlier. You not have a nice coil. Before you fire again adjust for spacing lightly. Then make sure the wick seam is facing away from where the top coil first touches the wick. Face that seam away from the top of that coil.

Start at 3.2v and fire the coil pulsing slowly to check for hotspots. Brush the coils lightly if there are any. HOWEVER you will find most shorts will work themselves out if you keep pulsing lightly.

Once it glows from the middle at 3.2v move to 3.5v and adjust if necessary. Then3.8. then 4.2 then 4.5 adjusting along the way. If you get to 4.5v with the coil glowing from the center? congrats. you have a working agat2.

remember that top leg hotspot is a known issue. for more info check the rebuildable atty forum and the Looooong agat2 thread. Get that wick closer to the top post. You can also put a crimp in the wire right where the wire comes off the wick Its ALL there. You had that going against you with the top leg and the gaps between the wick and coil is a separate issue causing more hotspots. Pull that wire snug around that wick.

Good luck.

 

[100%VG]

Gonna make this real simple for ya.

<SNIP>

Pull that wire snug around that wick.

Good luck.

Thanks for all the Details. I had thought about adding a Spring. I think I'll try that by removing a nut or two and adding a small washer or two. I'll probably need the nut at the bottom. I'll try an ink pen spring. But I'm thinking I'll keep it simple at first, and maybe just try the washer at the top first.

You've really given me a lot to work with.

Thank You!!!

I'll report back later with my progress.

 

[BJ43]

Best selection of of wire and mesh in one place, 5% discount to ECF members, plus 15% discount to the 15th. Also PP.

From Chris Platt:

We at The Vape Mesh Company are delighted to announce that we have added 2 Brand New wire rope specifications to our range. You can now purchase 7 x 7 and 7 x 19 wire rope in a 2.5mm thickness through our online store which can be found at:

www.vape-atomizer-mesh.com

 

[100%VG]

Best selection of of wire and mesh in one place, 5% discount to ECF members, plus 15% discount to the 15th. Also PP.

From Chris Platt:

We at The Vape Mesh Company are delighted to announce that we have added 2 Brand New wire rope specifications to our range. You can now purchase 7 x 7 and 7 x 19 wire rope in a 2.5mm thickness through our online store which can be found at:

www.vape-atomizer-mesh.com

Hi Beege,

Are you still not recommending Rope Mesh, because #500 is so much better?



To those who posted info for me,

I've been busy with other stuff, but I have not given up on #500 SS Mesh and Kanthal. I was hoping to get back to it today, but we'll see. I am confident that buffaloguy gave the answers to all of my problems. I will post my progress.

I am still without my VTube, and the Kamry K200 is such a huge disappointment!!! I've been waiting to get the VTube back.

I'm thinking of getting a DC to DC Buck-Boost Converter Module with a fairly high Amperage Output so I can have something to use for High Power VV when Varying the Voltage on Pulsing a new coil. I'm pretty sure that both of these are what would be considered "Regulated Devices." IDK if the VTube will do it, but the Kamry K200 is so Cheaply made, I am very doubtful that it will.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...discussion/429097-kamry-k200-full-review.html

 

[BJ43]

I have never recommended rope wick. The only use I have for rope SS is leaders for shark fishing.

 

[mtdewfreak]

subbed for future reference.

 

[MikeWhy]

Gotta say... The 500 mesh did the trick for me. Ran the tank dry with deep deep lung hits and no fear at all of a dry burning hit. Cool moist vapes down to the very end... And of course a mouthful beyond.

That's a Zen2, .8 ohm, 26ga., 98mm roll.

 

[Crack3dOne]

It's been over year since I first found this thread, I still make my wicks the same ever since. Tried many other options. IMHO, nothing is as good for wicking (without tilting your device like a beer bottle) as solid (60mm-80mm) #500 mesh wicks. Period. Just though I'd share.

 

[9ball_AJ]

It's been over year since I first found this thread, I still make my wicks the same ever since. Tried many other options. IMHO, nothing is as good for wicking (without tilting your device like a beer bottle) as solid (60mm-80mm) #500 mesh wicks. Period. Just though I'd share.

Same here and I couldn't agree more...

 

[ardvaark]

Was finally able to drill out my AGA-T+ to 1/8in
Heres 70mm's of #400 on my newly discover .6 X .1 Kanthal A-1 ribbon. 1.7ohm
I'm not really into fog.... but this thing will remove all visibility in our small bathroom after about 5 deep lung hits.
Lovin' it!!

 

[ardvaark]

I'm curious about how we roll the mesh. Right now I just cut my square then roll it tight. With some troching of course and I always have excellent results. I'm wondering if we offset the cut of mesh slightly at an angle to change the direction of the weave, then roll it, could this in theory improve the capillary action? Or slow it? Or do nothing?

Hmmm,...

Peter