Acetyl Proprionyl, Diacetyl, Acetoine HELP

[vangrl27]

"All of our vegetable glycerine and propylene glycol is USP certified and all our bases come from Wizard Labs in Florida. Our flavor extracts come from reliable safe sources, are diacetyl, acetyl propionyl and acetoin free, and are specifically formulated for vaping. We mix all of our juice fresh when you order and ship within 24 hours. We never add any color, water or alcohol to our juice and we don't use WTA extracts."

Meanwhile back in the lab, Flavor West rules the shelves...

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...rs-flavors-picture-exception-flavor-west.html

I ordered a bunch of Vapor Chef before Christmas, plowed through all of it with the assumption that they were free of all 3 of these ingredients, and I run across this thread today.

Is this crap even legal?

 

[we2rcool]

"All of our vegetable glycerine and propylene glycol is USP certified and all our bases come from Wizard Labs in Florida. Our flavor extracts come from reliable safe sources, are diacetyl, acetyl propionyl and acetoin free, and are specifically formulated for vaping. We mix all of our juice fresh when you order and ship within 24 hours. We never add any color, water or alcohol to our juice and we don't use WTA extracts."

Meanwhile back in the lab, Flavor West rules the shelves...

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...rs-flavors-picture-exception-flavor-west.html

I ordered a bunch of Vapor Chef before Christmas, plowed through all of it with the assumption that they were free of all 3 of these ingredients, and I run across this thread today.

Is this crap even legal?

From where/who is the underlined quote above?

 

[vangrl27]

The Vapor Chef reviews | All the Juices

The Vapor Chef - E-Liquid

http://www.vaperlist.com/the-list-v-z.html scroll down to find Vapor chef

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...20-first-impressions-vapor-chef-e-liquid.html
"This strikes me at first glance as an exciting vendor. I'm liking two things on the website - first, these claims:
..."All of our vegetable glycerine and propylene glycol is USP certified... (our) flavor extracts...are diacetyl, acetyl propionyl and acetoin free, and are specifically formulated for vaping... we never add any color, water or alcohol to our juice and we don't use WTA extracts". which covers the bases important to me nowadays and wonderful to see on a website. I know some aren't concerned about diacetyl and similarly composed substances, but I am."


Also, although i can't find my e-mail, i can almost 100% guarantee i would have asked before ordering. I always ask. Or used to, i'm not bothering anymore. Thankfully the only 2 that I ordered that seems suspect were Butter Beer and Fluffy cake.
All i see on their website now is Diacetyl free

 

[LoveVanilla]

Is this crap even legal?

For products marketed to vapers, inclusion of diacetyl -- an ingredient with known, serious, and substantial inhalation risk -- would be criminally negligent at a minimum. Knowingly including, or worse knowingly including and claiming to be diacetyl free, would be much worse...

(BTW, computer crapped out so little behind...)

 

[Sdh]

Vendors would be subjected to tort laws at the very least. (I would think so.)

Tort - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Sdh]

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/e-liquid-recipes/503792-vapor-chef-hobbes-blood-5.html

Look at post 42

 

[Soylent_Seal]

The Vapor Chef reviews | All the Juices

The Vapor Chef - E-Liquid

http://www.vaperlist.com/the-list-v-z.html scroll down to find Vapor chef

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...20-first-impressions-vapor-chef-e-liquid.html
"This strikes me at first glance as an exciting vendor. I'm liking two things on the website - first, these claims:
..."All of our vegetable glycerine and propylene glycol is USP certified... (our) flavor extracts...are diacetyl, acetyl propionyl and acetoin free, and are specifically formulated for vaping... we never add any color, water or alcohol to our juice and we don't use WTA extracts". which covers the bases important to me nowadays and wonderful to see on a website. I know some aren't concerned about diacetyl and similarly composed substances, but I am."


Also, although i can't find my e-mail, i can almost 100% guarantee i would have asked before ordering. I always ask. Or used to, i'm not bothering anymore. Thankfully the only 2 that I ordered that seems suspect were Butter Beer and Fluffy cake.
All i see on their website now is Diacetyl free

He no longer claims his juice is acetyl propionyl free if you check the current statement on his website, most likely due to TFA's ongoing revelations of more and more flavors containing "custard notes. "

 

[Blueser]

I've noticed that MBV lives on the ecr forum...they have quite the fanclub there.

 

[wllmc]

if you think about it its not really any more costly to use FA than it is to use TFA. with TFA you will probably use anywhere from 10-20% flavoring vs 2% with FA flavors. you should give FA a shot one time. pure vapes has 3ml samples for 1.50 that 3ml is going to last awhile considering you will only use a few drops vs a few ml.

is frustrating, no?

I do strictly DIY now, and get pretty much all my flavors from TFA, which is very affordable if you get the bulk flavorings... and they are more transparent about things than most others. FA... kinda too expensive for me.

 

[vangrl27]

Do most of you that are concerned with acetoin and diacetyl only use FA? And do they offer enough choices to satisfy you, or are there some other acetoin free concentrates from TFA that are a must have?

 

[HeadInClouds]

Do most of you that are concerned with acetoin and diacetyl only use FA? And do they offer enough choices to satisfy you, or are there some other acetoin free concentrates from TFA that are a must have?

I have about 80 FA e-cig flavorings, and those are ones I use most. I still use TFA flavors that do not list the custard notes in their ingredients and that I can't duplicate with FA flavors (Red Hots, Koolada, and Brown Sugar Extra are a few I use often).

I absolutely find enough variety to satisfy me; they keep me busy experimenting. The one hole in FA flavorings is kiddie-candy flavors. You won't make Jolly Ranchers or candy corn with FA. I've liked almost all the FA flavorings I've tried, which is more than I can say for most brands. The few FA flavorings I really don't like, I also don't like the competitors' versions.

 

[Wingsfan0310]

Do most of you that are concerned with acetoin and diacetyl only use FA? And do they offer enough choices to satisfy you, or are there some other acetoin free concentrates from TFA that are a must have?

There are quite a few TFA flavors that don't contain the chemicals you're concerened about, here's a link to a thread with a list of them:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/554391-my-tfas-choice-list.html

Personally I consider Vanilla Swirl and Caramel to be must haves. I also consider RY4D to be another but it hasn't yet been tested as far as I know.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[vangrl27]

Thanks you guys, that's helpful.

I think I'll order a wack of FA and then maybe just a few TPA, and I'll get the suggestions that you mentioned (minus RY4 cuz tobaccos aren't my thing)!

 

[DeadbeatJeff]

if you think about it its not really any more costly to use FA than it is to use TFA. with TFA you will probably use anywhere from 10-20% flavoring vs 2% with FA flavors. you should give FA a shot one time. pure vapes has 3ml samples for 1.50 that 3ml is going to last awhile considering you will only use a few drops vs a few ml.

they're really that much more concentrated?

 

[Jonathan Tittle]

they're really that much more concentrated?

The majority of FlavourArt flavors are indeed more concentrated. Based on my own personal usage, they're 25-50% more concentrated than other manufacturers. Of course, there are some flavors that still hit a slightly higher use percentage, but it's only a few and you can still get extremely good flavor from lower percentage use.

The higher use flavorings tend to come from TFA, Capella's and LorAnn while the more concentrated come from FlavourArt, Hangsen and Inawera (in no specific order).


Just to give you an example for Hangsen, I had the chance to try their Blueberry flavoring about a week ago. A local vendor had some flavoring so I blindly mixed at 10% which is my normal test point for any new flavor I'm not familiar with. I compared it to 10% Blueberry Extra from TFA. One vape and I was done. It was so overpowering it nearly turned me off the flavor entirely.

While these two flavors are very different, TFA you'd normally mix between 10-15%. With Hangsen Blueberry, I can't ever see going over 3% and that's if you like it *strong*. At 3% it can overpower pretty much anything else you mix in with it and it'll stay that way for quite some time. I've not tested 30-90 days out, but 10-15 days and the blueberry flavor was still strong and still dominating.

 

[Sdh]

I just obtained a email from a sales rep from Hangsen. I will only post a bit because I think its forbidden to post the entire email. I did reply to ask for proof or documentation of their statement.
Good Morning!

Thank you for your email!

I am ken from Hangsen Holding CO.,LTD,hangsen is the largest e liquid and leading e cigarettes manufacturer in the world.

1)Answers for your qustions:

1.Yes,Hangsen E liquid have no diacetyl, acetoin and diketone .

2.)Questions:

Are you personal use or business man?

Any questions,please tell me.

Have a nice day!



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[RocketPuppy]

So once again, we're left with their word. Interdasting. I'm feeling a bit potatoed. Maybe it's time we begin adventures in diy flavorings, too. I'll order the tobacco leaves, henceforth.

 

[RocketPuppy]

Please don't take my sarcasm as disinterest or mockery. I'm actually very interested and concerned.

 

[Sdh]

Please don't take my sarcasm as disinterest or mockery. I'm actually very interested and concerned.

I use Hangsen flavorings. I will see if they reply to my next question on proof. I know I don't believe a written or verbal statement anymore. I want lab proof.

Just for clarification: this is not about or for me personally. I care about the few people I mix for. I do not want to potentially cause any harm or discomfort. I vape mostly tobacco flavors. I do test out the bakery/sweets I make.

 

[LoveVanilla]

So once again, we're left with their word. Interdasting. I'm feeling a bit potatoed. Maybe it's time we begin adventures in diy flavorings, too. I'll order the tobacco leaves, henceforth.

Hangsen's tobaccos seem pretty clean to me (on this front). However, Hangsen's Vanilla smells like Diacetyl soup. There's no way I'm vaping without proof of ingredients.