Another article on the Juul

[nicnik]

I'm not convinced that the overall bio-availability is higher, just the speed at which it gets into the bloodstream (and thus to the brain). That speed is is something vapor products have lacked over combustible cigarettes, and I believe the lack of it is one reason why so many who try vaping find it unsatisfying and revert to smoking.

If I get some juul product, one of the things I figure I'll do is to break open one of their pods and cut their liquid down to somewhere in 15 mg range that I normally use and see how it works that way in my own gear.

I'm going to do similar things. I also want to try the Vermont Vapor 3.5% nicotine that has citric acid, and compare that with Juul juice cut down to 3.5%. I'll first estimate the VG% to try to match them to get good comparisons, and to try to judge the role of VG in taming the "bite" from the nic.

I'm way ahead of myself. The Vermont Vapor stuff I want to buy is sold out, for now, and Juul hasn't gotten back to me as of yet. I'm making up for not being crazed about the latest and greatest flavors and gear, by getting that way about the nicotine.

 

[navigator2011]

Update: Once you put on a pod on the battery, don't take it off until the juice is finished. They don't seem to like being pulled off once they're on. After switching between flavors quickly, two of the four pods are flooding and spitting. I don't like the thought of getting this juice in my mouth.

Maybe I just don't know what I'm doing, that could be a factor, too.

 

[nicnik]

Right--so why do they have to use such high nic levels? I mean, if bioavailability of nicotine is increased, by whatever means and chemistry, why do they have to raise the concentration? It just doesn't make sense to me...

I think that part, but only part of the answer is, that the small form factor doesn't have much power behind it, so like with other small cig-a-likes, you need higher nic.

 

[Caro123]

I really hoped "they" would listen to us. I did my share--I answered every call to action, I wrote letters, sent emails, told my story, submitted links to all relevant studies... IOW, I did what was was under my control. Now it's their move. We'll still have a couple of years to stock up--worst case scenario. What else can we do? Screw them.

please accept a vaper hug from an old biddy who worked as hard as she could to stop the bs tobacco policies here in NS years ago it was draining , tiring and downright frustrating . there is more hope for vaping, maybe not a lot but more in any case it will probably take ten years for them to gain control and even then I am not sure they can - times have changed

 

[Katya]

I think that part, but only part of the answer is, that the small form factor doesn't have much power behind it, so like with other small cig-a-likes, you need higher nic.

This may be a factor, but, honestly, when I started vaping in 2009, cigalikes were all we had, and I used 12 mg/ml then, 18 was a bit too much for me, 24 was out of the question for more than a few puffs... I'm now at 6-12mg/ml, depending on the device. I'm a MTL, low wattage vaper even though I do use second and third gen devices, RBAs, etc...

I just can't imagine myself vaping 50+ under any circumstances.

But that's just me--YMMV, as always.

 

[Katya]

please accept a vaper hug from an old biddy who worked as hard as she could to stop the bs tobacco policies here in NS years ago it was draining , tiring and downright frustrating . there is more hope for vaping, maybe not a lot but more in any case it will probably take ten years for them to gain control and even then I am not sure they can - times have changed

You just made my day, Caro! Thanks and bless you! And please accept a big hug back!

I just found another CTA from CASAA in my Inbox this morning and almost, almost ignored it. But I will answer it. You're right--things are changing and we should never give up--no matter how frustrating and time-consuming it might be.

CASAA: FDA Call to Action: Submit comments on FDA’s Third Workshop Regarding E-Cigarettes

Off to answer the CTA!

 

[nicnik]

This may be a factor, but, honestly, when I started vaping in 2009, cigalikes were all we had, and I used 12 mg/ml then, 18 was a bit too much for me, 24 was out of the question for more than a few puffs... I'm now at 6-12mg/ml, depending on the device. I'm a MTL, low wattage vaper even though I do use second and third gen devices, RBAs, etc...

I just can't imagine myself vaping 50+ under any circumstances.

But that's just me--YMMV, as always.

I've read more info, and it seems that nicotine salts produce much less throat hit than freebase nic. For further confusion, check out this thread from 2008. The talk was, and some old research suggested, that higher PH of freebase is preferable, since it is absorbed by the mouth better. A very interesting study from 1993 discussing this in regards to using nicotine in an areosol to replace smoking is discussed.

pH values and harshness of eliquid | E-Cigarette Forum

 

[Kent C]

This is the most baffling part to me. Hmmm... What's the highest nic level you can vape without getting woozy, BTW?

I might give this Juul a try. While I still can.

I'll pass. 24mg gives me hiccups

 

[Lessifer]

Why does this scare me?
I keep feeling like something is in there that we have removed for vaping and makes vaping easier to go down in nic. Like, some of us have managed to break the addiction to nicotine, but this scares me that it will be introducing the compound that creates the strong nic need....

I don't know if I am explaining myself well.....

Just something about this....

I guess time will tell.

I'm not sure if it Scares me? But it does give me Pause. And it makes me think of Possibilities.

Because I was Fine with a RN4081 Atty until I tried Cartos. And Cartos were Great until I tried Clearos. Never needed Mmore with Clearos until I tried RBA's. And RBA's go me where is Wanted to go (mostly) until I got my 1st Subtank.

So what I wonder is if I got into Juul Juice, would it make my Standard e-Liquids not seem Good Enough?

I have an Addictive Personality. This is why it was hard for me (and MANY others here) to Quit Smoking. I could see the Possibility of Myself using Juul Juice and then not wanting to go back to Regular e-Liquids.

I'm intrigued but I don't think I'll be trying these. I have made no conscious attempt to cut down my nic, but I have gone from 24-36mg down to 6-12mg over the course of 2+ years. Part of that was better equipment, and part of it was just not needing it. I do sub-ohm, in the 0.5-0.9 range, but I still only go through 2-4ml/day as best as I can estimate. I also haven't had to purchase consumable(atomizers/heads) in over a year and a half, and the idea of becoming reliant on "pods" bothers me.

 

[Katya]

I've read more info, and it seems that nicotine salts produce much less throat hit than freebase nic. For further confusion, check out this thread from 2008. The talk was, and some old research suggested, that higher PH of freebase is preferable, since it is absorbed by the mouth better. A very interesting study from 1993 discussing this in regards to using nicotine in an areosol to replace smoking is discussed.

pH values and harshness of eliquid | E-Cigarette Forum

Human brain is so complex... There are no easy answers. We've been discussing the "missing link" here for years. Some people can quit smoking as soon as they get their first kit--and never look back. Others struggle for years with mental desert and depression. Nobody knows why. But I'm convinced that it's not just about nicotine and its delivery; yes, nicotine is the major alkaloid in tobacco leaves, but there are other alkaloids--and then there's the magic of combustion. And ritual, and hand-to-mouth, and who knows what else...

Finding that missing link is the holy grail of vaping.

So - are we getting it or are we not - nicotine | E-Cigarette Forum

Beta Carboline MAOIs - towards a more effective e-liquid | E-Cigarette Forum

WTA is the future | E-Cigarette Forum

Ethanol Extract - Full Strong Buzz & Moderate flavor | E-Cigarette Forum

Cotinine - its importance in success of vaping compared to traditional NRT | E-Cigarette Forum

I could go on and on...

 

[DC2]

I'm going to do similar things. I also want to try the Vermont Vapor 3.5% nicotine that has citric acid, and compare that with Juul juice cut down to 3.5%. I'll first estimate the VG% to try to match them to get good comparisons, and to try to judge the role of VG in taming the "bite" from the nic.

I'm way ahead of myself. The Vermont Vapor stuff I want to buy is sold out, for now, and Juul hasn't gotten back to me as of yet. I'm making up for not being crazed about the latest and greatest flavors and gear, by getting that way about the nicotine.

I'm definitely looking forward to your impressions.

 

[DC2]

Finding that missing link is the holy grail of vaping.

As the rest of your post implied, the missing link may be different for different people.
Maybe that's why it's so hard to find.

 

[retroheavy]

I have been using Juul exclusively for the past two weeks. It's amazing! took me about 24 hours to drop analogs after a 17 year half-a-pack a day habit. I have no other experience with vaping but if you have any questions about my personal experience with the device feel free to ask.

 

[zoiDman]

I have been using Juul exclusively for the past two weeks. It's amazing! took me about 24 hours to drop analogs after a 17 year half-a-pack a day habit. I have no other experience with vaping but if you have any questions about my personal experience with the device feel free to ask.

Congratulations of Quitting your 17 Year Old Habit. Right On!

Here is a Question. About how long does 1 Pod last you?

 

[retroheavy]

Congratulations of Quitting your 17 Year Old Habit. Right On!

Here is a Question. About how long does 1 Pod last you?

Thanks! As a half a pack a day smoker the pods last me a solid 2 days, so the pod to pack ratio is pretty spot on. I have just been using it when I would normally smoke and puff on it for about as long as I would a normal cigarette.

 

[Katya]

As the rest of your post implied, the missing link may be different for different people.
Maybe that's why it's so hard to find.

Right! That's the $64K question!

Is it a different "link" for different vapers or is it the same link, but some people just need it less than others? It's conceivable that for some smokers just the nicotine and the ritual of inhaling and exhaling and the hand-to-mouth action are enough to break the bond with smoking, even after some initial discomfort, while others still need that something else no matter how how hard they try and how much they increase their nicotine levels.

No idea--but somehow cigs used to work for all of us, didn't they? I never heard any smoker complaining that cigs "don't quite work" for them or that something was missing from that cigarette smoke.

 

[zoiDman]

Thanks! As a half a pack a day smoker the pods last me a solid 2 days, so the pod to pack ratio is pretty spot on. I have just been using it when I would normally smoke and puff on it for about as long as I would a normal cigarette.

Very Cool.

 

[Katya]

I have been using Juul exclusively for the past two weeks. It's amazing! took me about 24 hours to drop analogs after a 17 year half-a-pack a day habit. I have no other experience with vaping but if you have any questions about my personal experience with the device feel free to ask.

Congratulations!

Did you smoke full flavor cigarettes? Lights? Ultra lights? Did you find the Juul pods very strong? Stronger than your usual brand?

This is so interesting.

 

[zoiDman]

...

This is so interesting.

It is. Isn't it?

I can't help Thinking what things would have like if the Juul had been available at the time when We Switched?

Maybe if it had, Today's DIY Forum would be 1/2 Flavor Recipes. And the Other Half would be how to make Nicotine "Salts".

LOL

 

[Katya]

It is. Isn't it?

I can't help Thinking what things would have like if the Juul had been available at the time when We Switched?

Maybe if it had, Today's DIY Forum would be 1/2 Flavor Recipes. And the Other Half would be how to make Nicotine "Salts".

LOL

Hehehehe!

Have you read SJ's post about Juul?

I tried the Juul at the SFATA conference last week.

Nicotine-wise, it kicks like a mule. It's been so long since I smoked a cigarette that I honestly can't say whether it's the same experience - and probably it isn't quite (not WTAs, for instance). But the charts tell an interesting story - similar t-max (time to maximum nicotine levels in blood) to cigarettes, but much lower c-max (total peak plasma levels of nicotine). I felt pretty, er, zapped for about 15 minutes after taking only a few puffs - and I'm a big nicotine user (Snus, vaping, even lozenges (can't get snus in UK))

In terms of vapor production, very little; flavor, very little. Overall, it's not for me - BUT, had it been on the market, say, 4 years ago, it might well have been for me. I honestly can't say.