Are we going to win this war?

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Ryedan

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I see talk in this thread about vapers doing something to advance the cause, yet only 5 people on ECF spent the 2 minutes today required to accomplish this activity:

Fight for Your Right to #ape - Daily Action Plan for Monday 02.03.14

I've never been a political animal and I don't post much in threads like this one, but I do and will continue to do what I can for the future of vaping. I never had a Twitter or Facebook account and thought I never would. I don't need it for myself personally. That changed when I found out the fight for vaping in the EU got serious a little while back.

Now for all I know everyone who is chatting about the politics of vaping in this thread might be doing a heck of a lot more than I am by just tweeting for the cause daily. If you are, kudos to you. I also realize there are a lot of different ways people can do something to help. But this is easy, free and takes hardly any time at all. Why aren't more of us doing this?
 

Berylanna

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I see talk in this thread about vapers doing something to advance the cause, yet only 5 people on ECF spent the 2 minutes today required to accomplish this activity:

Fight for Your Right to #ape - Daily Action Plan for Monday 02.03.14

I've never been a political animal and I don't post much in threads like this one, but I do and will continue to do what I can for the future of vaping. I never had a Twitter or Facebook account and thought I never would. I don't need it for myself personally. That changed when I found out the fight for vaping in the EU got serious a little while back.

Now for all I know everyone who is chatting about the politics of vaping in this thread might be doing a heck of a lot more than I am by just tweeting for the cause daily. If you are, kudos to you. I also realize there are a lot of different ways people can do something to help. But this is easy, free and takes hardly any time at all. Why aren't more of us doing this?

I have done the tweets a few times but I'm still uncomfortable with Twitter. However, I think we need a VERY multi-pronged attack. I am doing some Facebook but I'm such a geek that family are my only followers. (Karyyl Keystone.) Also very helpful is to comment on news articles, the Media subforum under Electronic Cigarette News routinely has articles that could use comments. (I do that several times a month.)

I've been going to state, county, and city hearings on this, I designed (and Kristin redesigned) a vendor display that holds cards, and taken them to 3 vendors. Other folks on this thread are looking at media contacts, which I've heard CASAA say we need LOTS AND LOTS more of. But we have to speak for ourselves, we cannot speak for CASAA. Still, if you asked the board whether they'd rather have you tweet (2 mins) or write an op-ed piece and get it published (days for some of us) I think they'd pick the op-ed piece. But, of course, both would be better.

Cards are $2.50 for 50 cards, no reason not to get some to pass out. I posted a graphic for a casaa.org QR code above also.

And, I'm going to try to get (or, failing that, make!) a T-shirt to wear if I go to Comicon in March. Thousands of hobbyist geeks there will understand another geeky hobby. AND understand bucking the establishment.
 

2coils

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I disagree on the severely mistaken part. Sounds good for political tripe, but unless you can name something else that has been literally cut off from humanity, I think it is tripe put forth.
- Flavors aren't going to disappear, nor will humans not have access to them
- Nicotine as a schedule 1 controlled substance by the biggest superpower on the planet will not cut it off from consumption. If history is any guide at all.
- online sales going bye bye would mean we are in an Orwellian world, and not allegedly in it, but actually in it.

That leaves usage bans and taxes.

One front of this war is here on ECF. I can start the umpteenth thread on vaping in public and have around 30% (maybe more) of all vapers who care about political issues of eCigs tell me how rude and utterly harmful it is to the cause to vape pretty much anywhere in public.

Honestly, on most of the issues that are up for discussion, one need not look over yonder for the so called enemy to the pro vaper. Some vapers really want regulation of manufacturers and are very okay with usage bans. I've seen ECF vapers say, if you vape where I'm eating, I'll tattle on you and enjoy watching you get kicked out of that establishment. Boy, thanks for helping with the cause there. Now that the so called rude members of our great society have found vaping, you still think we stand a great chance of winning on all fronts of the war? I'm thinking if we have vapers amongst us that have problems with certain types vaping going on, that the non vapers might have questions while the anti vapers just can't wait to exploit the rude vapers to make the key point of - don't vape anywhere, it is rude to do so!

I'm not sure if there is a current issue on the table that I, a pro vaper, wouldn't take the side of actual freedom with, and thus disavow unreasonable control, debate those who care to debate it. And I'll likely continue to run into fellow vapers who keep seeking control of some sort. Won't anyone think of the children? Yep, even that is working against us, by us. Ban sales / possession to everyone under 18, and then think those who are anti-vaping ain't going to use that against us? Just as us so called adults will find a way around those who must have control on vaping, I'm a guessing those of us under 18 will always (and I do mean always) find workarounds to make a mockery out of this incessant need to control what others are up to.

Sure Senator, of course we agree to ban possession to persons under 18. But do you think, um, that we adults could vape in this way or at that location for at least another week? Pretty please!
We have argued these points you disagree with in many other threads, no reason to rehash. We can simply agree to disagree.
As a matter of fact: I REALLY hope you are right! But only time will tell. Until then, no need for me to assume we are in the clear with any of the related topics.
 
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Don Robertson

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I believe each of us needs to compose a 'form letter' - politicians do it on a multitude of topics and use it over and over again. Be as factual as possible and include personal specifics. I tend to ramble - so my letter would need much editing to be as pointed yet short enough ti be read; political secretaries "scan" and details need to jump out.

When an issue arises - it usually has an identifier. Edit the letter to reflect the topic and send it out. E-Mail is the "accepted method" - to make an even more solid impact I prefer "paper". Getting attention is as important as discussing it here; all the ideas in the world are of no use if not implemented.

Should this come down to a "let the voters decide" issue as they seem to love to do here in New Mexico -- it is indeed a crap shoot. We get perhaps a 20% to 35% voter turnout here and honestly I would bet the voters would NOT be sympathetic UNLESS it were to be associated with an issue see as important - and in that respect the turnout tells the tale as to how many people here feel ANYTHING is important. It's pathetic.

Senile Old Man Don

** RYEDAN --- I don't 'do' Twitter because quite honestly it confuses me. Facebook - is "Facebook" and while great for some - not so for others. I DO read your daily updates and have contacted officials as I see fit and via my chosen method. I suspect others DO as well. Not leaving an obvious 'trail' does not necessarily mean folks are doing 'nothing'. I would suspect and strongly hope I am NOT alone.

Don
 
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DC2

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I see talk in this thread about vapers doing something to advance the cause, yet only 5 people on ECF spent the 2 minutes today required to accomplish this activity:

Fight for Your Right to #ape - Daily Action Plan for Monday 02.03.14

I've never been a political animal and I don't post much in threads like this one, but I do and will continue to do what I can for the future of vaping. I never had a Twitter or Facebook account and thought I never would. I don't need it for myself personally. That changed when I found out the fight for vaping in the EU got serious a little while back.

Now for all I know everyone who is chatting about the politics of vaping in this thread might be doing a heck of a lot more than I am by just tweeting for the cause daily. If you are, kudos to you. I also realize there are a lot of different ways people can do something to help. But this is easy, free and takes hardly any time at all. Why aren't more of us doing this?
Your entire post is quote-worthy, so I quoted the whole thing.

But this part is what I want to comment on...
I never had a Twitter or Facebook account and thought I never would.

I now have a Facebook, when I thought I never would.
I created it because there is an article I had to comment on one day.

I now have a Twitter, when I thought I never would.
I created it because I had to tweet the daily tweet thingies.

My Facebook consists of a message that says I don't Facebook, with an email address to contact me at if you really want to talk to me.
My Twitter consists of, well, I have no idea what my Twitter consists of, nor do I care.
:)
 

DC2

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Cards are $2.50 for 50 cards, no reason not to get some to pass out. I posted a graphic for a casaa.org QR code above also.
I bought 100 of them just recently, and I'm working on getting them spread out across the various quality brick and mortars around here.
Hopefully they will go fast, and I can justify buying a whole lot more of them.

Those cards are great, and they convey the message that vendors need to get to their customers.
:thumb:
 

Dusif

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I see talk in this thread about vapers doing something to advance the cause, yet only 5 people on ECF spent the 2 minutes today required to accomplish this activity:

Fight for Your Right to #ape - Daily Action Plan for Monday 02.03.14

I've never been a political animal and I don't post much in threads like this one, but I do and will continue to do what I can for the future of vaping. I never had a Twitter or Facebook account and thought I never would. I don't need it for myself personally. That changed when I found out the fight for vaping in the EU got serious a little while back.

Now for all I know everyone who is chatting about the politics of vaping in this thread might be doing a heck of a lot more than I am by just tweeting for the cause daily. If you are, kudos to you. I also realize there are a lot of different ways people can do something to help. But this is easy, free and takes hardly any time at all. Why aren't more of us doing this?

If you really want to grab attention arrange for every single vaper on ecf to send a letter to every politician who has something to say in this matter... The letters ONLY containing links to REAL research...

If a politician gets 10.000+ letters containing the same stuff they are forced to give it some sort of attention


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DC2

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I believe each of us needs to compose a 'form letter' - politicians do it on a multitude of topics and use it over and over again. Be as factual as possible and include personal specifics. I tend to ramble - so my letter would need much editing to be as pointed yet short enough ti be read; political secretaries "scan" and details need to jump out.

When an issue arises - it usually has an identifier. Edit the letter to reflect the topic and send it out. E-Mail is the "accepted method" - to make an even more solid impact I prefer "paper". Getting attention is as important as discussing it here; all the ideas in the world are of no use if not implemented.
Very good advice, and I assume many of us are doing the same.

Compose a letter that hits on the various issues and includes your personal story.
Save it to your desktop as a Word document and send it out as needed, with a little bit of tweaking for different circumstances as needed.

Emailing is better than doing nothing, that's for sure.
But mailing it with a stamp is even better.

But when I get real serious, I make phone calls.
 

AndriaD

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I disagree on the severely mistaken part. Sounds good for political tripe, but unless you can name something else that has been literally cut off from humanity, I think it is tripe put forth.

I agree! The only thing comes to mind is, um... that other smokable stuff. In the first part of the 20th century, when the gov't was going after the "patent medicine" purveyors, primarily to make opium less easily available, they went ahead and outlawed pretty much everything they didn't have a current medical use for. Now of course, the other "Big", Big Liquor, has a lot to lose if "that other smokable" becomes legal and easily available. But it's never stopped being available in the black market, and the only folks who DON'T want it legalized are either those with a financial stake in the matter (big liquor, big pharma, organized crime), or the control freaks you characterize so brilliantly in your post.

- Flavors aren't going to disappear, nor will humans not have access to them
- Nicotine as a schedule 1 controlled substance by the biggest superpower on the planet will not cut it off from consumption. If history is any guide at all.
- online sales going bye bye would mean we are in an Orwellian world, and not allegedly in it, but actually in it.

I agree about nicotine, though they certainly could make it more difficult/expensive to get. But I used to buy cigarettes online, from Indian reservations (ok I know they're "native americans" but I HATE "political correctness!"), and those are gone now, so... I suppose it could happen, sadly enough.

One front of this war is here on ECF. I can start the umpteenth thread on vaping in public and have around 30% (maybe more) of all vapers who care about political issues of eCigs tell me how rude and utterly harmful it is to the cause to vape pretty much anywhere in public.

Honestly, on most of the issues that are up for discussion, one need not look over yonder for the so called enemy to the pro vaper. Some vapers really want regulation of manufacturers and are very okay with usage bans. I've seen ECF vapers say, if you vape where I'm eating, I'll tattle on you and enjoy watching you get kicked out of that establishment. Boy, thanks for helping with the cause there. Now that the so called rude members of our great society have found vaping, you still think we stand a great chance of winning on all fronts of the war? I'm thinking if we have vapers amongst us that have problems with certain types vaping going on, that the non vapers might have questions while the anti vapers just can't wait to exploit the rude vapers to make the key point of - don't vape anywhere, it is rude to do so!

I'm not sure if there is a current issue on the table that I, a pro vaper, wouldn't take the side of actual freedom with, and thus disavow unreasonable control, debate those who care to debate it. And I'll likely continue to run into fellow vapers who keep seeking control of some sort. Won't anyone think of the children? Yep, even that is working against us, by us. Ban sales / possession to everyone under 18, and then think those who are anti-vaping ain't going to use that against us? Just as us so called adults will find a way around those who must have control on vaping, I'm a guessing those of us under 18 will always (and I do mean always) find workarounds to make a mockery out of this incessant need to control what others are up to.

I feel like giving this part a standing ovation; you're so right! There are ALWAYS control freaks, who are just NOT HAPPY if they can't tell others what to do, and the more unreasonable, the more they like it! Nevermind their own freedom; somehow, some people have the notion that they have the RIGHT to tell others what to do, and the EXPECTATION that the bossed-around will just roll over and take it! And it BURNS ME UP! And some of these are vapers like us! They're not only cutting off their nose to spite their face, they're cutting off their HANDS and FEET and everyone else's, and they think we should be grateful!

Vaping around kids? Well, why not? People do pretty much everything else around kids. I stopped smoking in the house because cigarette smoke enclosed in an inner space becomes very concentrated, and it was in fact making my son miss a lot of school, with respiratory infections. But if he came outside to talk to me, I certainly didn't put it out; I blew the smoke the other way, and if he started waving it away, I told him to either move upwind or get his ... back in the house if he didn't like my smoke OUTDOORS! But vaping? Horse of a different color entirely. The worst part of vaping around kids, I would think, is that kids are very "monkey see, monkey do," but even if they don't see their parents doing it, they're going to see SOMEONE, and what are you going to do, keep 'em locked up in the basement till they're 18? That's a good way to create a really dysfunctional person. Kids have to know what the choices ARE, in order to make good ones. Oh, I also would think that all the playskool-colored APVs would be a real risk to kids, for obvious reasons -- they like bright colors, and they associate them with "kids' things". So I really think the flavored e-juices are far less of a danger to kids than the bright whimsical colors.

Please keep posting, Jman; yours is obviously a voice of reason!

Thx!
Andria
 

DC2

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The worst part of vaping around kids, I would think, is that kids are very "monkey see, monkey do," but even if they don't see their parents doing it, they're going to see SOMEONE, and what are you going to do, keep 'em locked up in the basement till they're 18?
Ah, you clearly don't understand the mindset of the prohibitionists.

If they can ENTIRELY eliminate a behavior then the precious gems of the future will not ever see anyone doing it.
This is obviously the goal that they are constantly striving for.

The future will be a utopia, dontcha know.


EDIT: Freedom... deal with it
 
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AndriaD

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I see talk in this thread about vapers doing something to advance the cause, yet only 5 people on ECF spent the 2 minutes today required to accomplish this activity:

Fight for Your Right to #ape - Daily Action Plan for Monday 02.03.14

I've never been a political animal and I don't post much in threads like this one, but I do and will continue to do what I can for the future of vaping. I never had a Twitter or Facebook account and thought I never would. I don't need it for myself personally. That changed when I found out the fight for vaping in the EU got serious a little while back.

Now for all I know everyone who is chatting about the politics of vaping in this thread might be doing a heck of a lot more than I am by just tweeting for the cause daily. If you are, kudos to you. I also realize there are a lot of different ways people can do something to help. But this is easy, free and takes hardly any time at all. Why aren't more of us doing this?

Thank you so much for posting this; I confess I am also somewhat "twitter-ignorant", but I DO know how to "favorite", "follow," and tweet and retweet an established tweet, and thanks to this post, I now also have Liked the "Fight to Vape" Facebook page -- Facebook is really more my speed, since I don't have any kind of cellphone. So, all those, tweeted, retweeted, favorite'd, and Liked. I'm also about to design a new header image for my own Facebook page, pointing out that BT, BP, and the gov't itself doesn't actually WANT anyone to quit smoking and vape instead, which means they WANT us to get cancer. I'm also a geek, and a bit of a hermit, so I don't have a lot of FB friends, but a few of them are still smokers, so maybe it will help them, if no one else.

Thx!!!
Andria
 

AndriaD

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Ah, you clearly don't understand the mindset of the prohibitionists.

If they can ENTIRELY eliminate a behavior then the precious gems of the future will not ever see anyone doing it.
This is obviously the goal that they are constantly striving for.

The future will be a utopia, dontcha know.


EDIT: Freedom... deal with it

Yeah, and how long have they been hollering about the dangers of drunk driving? And people are still doing it, in DROVES. In fact, despite the "click it or ticket" campaign, I bet there's a fair amount who don't even wear seatbelts (idiots!).

And they've been trying to outright OUTLAW smoking since 1964... and here we are.

I'm thinking that these idiots who are trying to protect the "precious gems of the future" from ever seeing anything "BAAAAD" are the same ones who go home and get drunk and then beat on their kids for not being PERFECT.

These control freaks are the ones that need to be outlawed, locked up, given psych evals to find out why they're so damn ....!

:D
Andria
 

DC2

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I'm thinking that these idiots who are trying to protect the "precious gems of the future" from ever seeing anything "BAAAAD" are the same ones who go home and get drunk and then beat on their kids for not being PERFECT.
I don't subscribe to the whole "precious gems" ideology.
But then, I don't have any children, so it's probably easier for me to feel that way.

I also don't believe in the government protecting us from ourselves.
In fact, I'd go a bit further in that I don't always believe in protecting myself from myself.

I am a germ collector.
There is probably no other way to put it.

I do not recognize the "30 second rule" for food that hit the ground.
I'll eat it if I think it looks tasty, no matter how long it was on the ground.
:laugh:

I collect germs, rather than avoiding them, because I think it makes my immune system stronger.
If a cockroach can survive the apocalypse, then maybe I can too.
 

Jman8

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We have argued these points you disagree with in many other threads, no reason to rehash. We can simply agree to disagree.
As a matter of fact: I REALLY hope you are right! But only time will tell. Until then, no need for me to assume we are in the clear with any of the related topics.

My point wasn't about us being in the clear. Perhaps the opposite. I'm saying one of the fronts of the war is quite clearly here on ECF.

Let's say a bill is being considered locally where I live to ban usage of eCigs in public places. I, as a vaper, put up all the reasons why that would be a bad piece of legislation. I also provide all the education to let anyone who cares, namely the politician who will be officially voting on the legislation, know how misguided their thinking is about vaping, i.e. vapor is not smoke (allow science to make that clear if you do not believe me). Then after reading my well crafted letter, the same politician gets another letter, from another vaper who says usage bans make perfect sense and here's why....(insert rationale to control rude humans here)

2 vapers, both presumably pro-vaping, and yet one of them favors usage bans. This is occurring right here on ECF. Hence, we are not in the clear but instead are on the battlefield and pretend like we are scheming against BP, BL, BG, BT and the like, when a little dose of reality or discernment would show anyone paying attention to the politics of eCigs that we have some of 'them' on our side, posting right here along with us.

And I'm not devolved enough to claim I would never ever be one of 'them.' I feel it is possible, and perhaps shows up with my desire for reasonable manufacturing regulations, so a basic amount of safety can be had for all vapers. Some might argue that's not even necessary, and I'd actually be open to that debate, perhaps even encourage it.

But the debate about, "is it okay for people under 18 to vape" is not one we really want to have for some reason, or if we do have it, suddenly we become highly concerned with political correctness and realize, we darn well better forbid / ban that sort of vaping, otherwise the whole thing could go up in (ahem) smoke. Yet, I see that issue as the inroad that opposition will always have, forever and ever, to dangling the carrot of 'reasonable bans' for the greater good.

IMO, all bans are forms of unreasonable regulation.

And as people under 18 are finding ways to vape, even while they have full ban placed upon them, it gives me hope knowing that I likely can find ways as well to get around the control seekers and their poor sportsmanship.
 

Berylanna

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Very good advice, and I assume many of us are doing the same.

Compose a letter that hits on the various issues and includes your personal story.
Save it to your desktop as a Word document and send it out as needed, with a little bit of tweaking for different circumstances as needed.

Emailing is better than doing nothing, that's for sure.
But mailing it with a stamp is even better.

With one exception. Well, three. Snail mail to the White House, Senators, and Representatives goes through 2 weeks to 1 month of Anthrax screening which apparently mangles the letters so badly they'll think you fished it out of a trash pile. This is per various gov't web pages.

But when I get real serious, I make phone calls.

Or an phone call asking to visit a staffer at your rep's local office. (Or your rep, if it is a small-enough area, like State Assembly Member)
But I only do that when something is coming to committee, though I now believe that we should do that PROACTIVELY at the city and county level, because the ANTZ are brainwashing the staffers BEFORE anything hits a publicly-visible agenda.
 

2coils

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Jman wrote:Let's say a bill is being considered locally where I live to ban usage of eCigs in public places. I, as a vaper, put up all the reasons why that would be a bad piece of legislation. I also provide all the education to let anyone who cares, namely the politician who will be officially voting on the legislation, know how misguided their thinking is about vaping, i.e. vapor is not smoke (allow science to make that clear if you do not believe me). Then after reading my well crafted letter, the same politician gets another letter, from another vaper who says usage bans make perfect sense and here's why....(insert rationale to control rude humans here)

YES! This a problem, there is no doubt about it. Some people are all for regulation (not just with vaping), and they should be careful what they wish for. But to call the "other concers" that we have discussed in other threads IE..flavor restrictions, nic levels etc....tripe, IMO you are dismissing issues that are equally as important. Until the FDA does or says something positive in regard to e-cigs, I have to believe they will travel down the same road they tried to travel before. It is up to us (and the manufacturers/vendors) to speak up create awareness and stop them.
 

Berylanna

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My point wasn't about us being in the clear. Perhaps the opposite. I'm saying one of the fronts of the war is quite clearly here on ECF.

IMO, all bans are forms of unreasonable regulation.

And as people under 18 are finding ways to vape, even while they have full ban placed upon them, it gives me hope knowing that I likely can find ways as well to get around the control seekers and their poor sportsmanship.

CASAA officially asks for 1 thing to be supported: bans on SALE (NOT POSSESSION!!!!) to kids under 18. This is to stop the ANTZ from starting bills to ban to kids then waiting till the last minute to tack a bunch of other icky stuff on the bills. When we support these bills, we are supporting something that, though incorrect, is SUPPOSEDLY already applied to patches, gum, etc and it gives us a counter-argument to "Marketed to children"

I am not claiming this is unarguable, only presenting what I read and hear on casaa.org

And I want to make it CLEAR that I as a parent/grandparent and as far as I know the actual casaa board members DO oppose overriding parental rights, so banning POSSESSION by youth is absolutely unacceptable.

Edit: since our vapor is a lot like food vapor I also approve of legally defining it as food vapor, which would ban it wherever food and drink are banned. So, let them go ahead and ban food and drink in restaurants, bars, on trains, airplanes, etc. Oh, and flavored alcoholic drinks. Talk about a COLDER day in hell!
 
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2coils

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JMAN, There are plenty of vapers around that can take up issues that are important to them. We will never be organized enough to think and act the same way (nor is it natural). There is not one right opinion. No doubt legislators can/will get mixed messages (regulation, no regulation etc..) The point is that THEY get the message. And when they see enough of us who care, they may be inclined, to act in favor of, instead of against.
 

AndriaD

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I don't subscribe to the whole "precious gems" ideology.
But then, I don't have any children, so it's probably easier for me to feel that way.

I have a son, grown now, and he's very precious to me, but like I said, he needed to know what the choices are, in order to make good ones. I always tried to protect him from a child's ignorance (kids don't always realize they're cold, or hungry, or tired, which is why they sometimes whine, and why they need parents who are PAYING ATTENTION!), and from "bad people," (you know the ones I mean, the ones who prey on children), but I also tried to let him be a kid, make some of his own choices, and then become acquainted with the consequences of those choices -- it's the only way some kids can learn anything (we're a whole family of "hard headed" who only learn the "hard way"!).

I also don't believe in the government protecting us from ourselves.
In fact, I'd go a bit further in that I don't always believe in protecting myself from myself.

I wish I could protect myself from myself, sometimes. :) But the only thing that can never be protected against is one's own self; people in general don't seem to realize this. I think the gov't is correct in trying to protect us against bad choices like not using seatbelts, for example. Most folks don't really have much grasp of elementary physics -- if the vehicle you're in comes to a sudden stop, and you're not somehow "attached" to the thing that came to a sudden stop, guess what, you keep going forward -- into or through the windshield (my purse hits the footwell with *great* force, when I sometimes have to brake suddenly! It needs a seatbelt, too!). Maybe they're really protecting us from having to see the results of that bad choice spread all over the pavement. :) But in general I'm about fed up with "Big Nanny."

I am a germ collector.
There is probably no other way to put it.
I do not recognize the "30 second rule" for food that hit the ground.
I'll eat it if I think it looks tasty, no matter how long it was on the ground.
:laugh:

ROFL! I think it depends on the floor -- in my mom's house, no problem, you could eat off her floor with no worries! In my house? Into the trash with it! :D

I collect germs, rather than avoiding them, because I think it makes my immune system stronger.
If a cockroach can survive the apocalypse, then maybe I can too.

You're completely correct; I rant about "hand sanitizers" on a regular basis, along with anti-bacterial soaps; the only time I will use them is if I'm about to handle raw meat that I'm freezing. When I had my son, in 1988, my mom was appalled that I didn't need to sterilize everything that would come in contact with him, but medicine has apparently learned that kids NEED to encounter a certain amount of germs, to develop their immune systems! Those who never encounter any microbes will never develop the ability to deal with those microbes -- that's how immunization works! The reason why the native population was so decimated by "European" diseases was because they had never encountered them.

Another really good example: our son had the misfortune to view just a bit of our lunacy at the end of our drinking; he was 4 1/2 when we quit; now, although he will have an occasional beer, he seldom finishes it, and he rarely drinks enough to become even slightly intoxicated -- because he has SEEN how alcohol can become extremely destructive -- in some fashion, he's become "immunized," and I doubt he'll ever become an alcoholic, despite his DNA legacy. And although he did start smoking at one point, he managed to quit before it really got claws into him, and if he ever reconsidered it, I think he'd choose vaping -- probably with 0 nic. So he's a pretty smart "kid" (he's actually 25 now, not really a kid!), despite -- or maybe because of! -- his insane parents! They can't make really GOOD choices, if they don't even know what the choices ARE.

Just my own :2c: ...
Andria
 

AgentAnia

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May 22, 2013
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Originally Posted by Don Robertson

I believe each of us needs to compose a 'form letter' - politicians do it on a multitude of topics and use it over and over again. Be as factual as possible and include personal specifics. I tend to ramble - so my letter would need much editing to be as pointed yet short enough ti be read; political secretaries "scan" and details need to jump out.

When an issue arises - it usually has an identifier. Edit the letter to reflect the topic and send it out. E-Mail is the "accepted method" - to make an even more solid impact I prefer "paper". Getting attention is as important as discussing it here; all the ideas in the world are of no use if not implemented.

Very good advice, and I assume many of us are doing the same.

Compose a letter that hits on the various issues and includes your personal story.
Save it to your desktop as a Word document and send it out as needed, with a little bit of tweaking for different circumstances as needed.

Emailing is better than doing nothing, that's for sure.
But mailing it with a stamp is even better.

But when I get real serious, I make phone calls.

I have a "rebuttal comments" text file on my desktop, with paragraphs arranged by topic (e.g., flavors attract children; "we just don't know"; ingredients safety; etc.). I can then quickly cut and paste to post a comment, tailoring as appropriate.
 
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