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just to explain myself. I am new here. I hit "view new post" and saw this thread. It peaked my curiosity and I clicked on it. I had no idea it was in a Christians only Forum. And I am very very sorry. I have sent my adult life defending others, and I am now seeing my post are a problem. Thank you all for your warm welcomes.
I want to state publicly for all to read, I was the one who is wrong here. Please accept my apology.
It's ok Jax, you're always welcome here to discuss God and the Bible.
yeah.. anytime iJax...
iJax I don't want you to feel (and I don't think that you do) unwelcomed or that you did anything wrong. IMO you answered the Q "from your level of understanding" on the topic. Even though that understanding may or may not line up with Christian's scriptural understanding, I do not not necessarily see that there was rudeness or harm intended or given.
Every one of us at some point "comes as we are". With what ever level of knowledge or wisdom that we have or not, we start the process of seeking to understand and learn more somewhere.
You may be able to understand that (some) of your own logic disqualifies (some) of your own stance though. The study of "cultural anthropology" is accomplished in one of two ways.
1. Reading about what those who have gone before you have to say about a topic.
2. Examining the evidence for yourself and drawing your own conclusions about that topic.
In the first, it is through the "lens" of another writer and (by your logic) is subjected automatically to doubt of accuracy.
In the second, though you may not have access to the original items in order to examine, even if you did, your conclusion would also have to be subjected to that same doubt in example 1 above to everyone else for the same reasons.
At some point we have to settle by faith that the account has been reasonably examined and represented in writing by one who has gone before us. Otherwise, we can't prove that George Washington was even real let alone out 1st president.
By faith in the men and women who were witnesses and documented the account, I believe that George Washington was who history describes him to be.
Do we know everything about him there there is to know? Of course not.
Could some of the account's details be fudged or exaggerated? Of course that's possible.
Is it likely that there are gross errors in the account? Not likely, they would have been challenged by those who were also there and knew better.
The accounts of the NT were written by those people who at the time were deemed as credible and knowledgeable, and lined up with what others who were also witnesses agreed upon. The difference between world history and Biblical History is that man did not take it upon himself to write the account, they were moved upon by the Holy Spirit to do so.
Do the accounts look different from the perspective of 2 or 3 guys who viewed it? You bet.
IF - God was really behind the influence of the writings, would He be able to ensure that what He wanted for our instruction- got written down? Without a doubt.
Is it possible for man to water it down innocently through translations of translations or on purpose to confuse the truth? Yes, but - (There are good and not so good translations out there) All good modern day translations are from the original Greek and Hebrew, not from a copy of a translation of a translation of a translation.
At some point we have to have faith that the source is trustworthy before we can give it much credence. The original text is trustworthy, even if we as Christian's can't agree on what it means.
If we as Christian's who believe that God created everything in all of creation, can't also believe that God is able to preserve His word for us, then we have bigger problems than you might at 1st imagine.
While there are many things that you can see and determine using cultural anthropology, you too must at some point trust in the validity of the account from those who have gone before you.
OR ELSE
We are all destined to do it all on our own and then we won't get very far as we are not all skilled in a given area.
Faith by it's very definition is the ability to believe without seeing all of the details for yourself. Faith is the substance for which we confidently hope or trust in a thing. To a Christian, God has proven Himself a trustworthy source even when we don't understand.
You my brother do have faith on a level, and I pray that your faith is increased and your desire for it is also increased!
Every one of us at some point "comes as we are". With what ever level of knowledge or wisdom that we have or not, we start the process of seeking to understand and learn more somewhere.
You may be able to understand that (some) of your own logic disqualifies (some) of your own stance though. The study of "cultural anthropology" is accomplished in one of two ways.
1. Reading about what those who have gone before you have to say about a topic.
2. Examining the evidence for yourself and drawing your own conclusions about that topic.
In the first, it is through the "lens" of another writer and (by your logic) is subjected automatically to doubt of accuracy.
In the second, though you may not have access to the original items in order to examine, even if you did, your conclusion would also have to be subjected to that same doubt in example 1 above to everyone else for the same reasons.
At some point we have to settle by faith that the account has been reasonably examined and represented in writing by one who has gone before us. Otherwise, we can't prove that George Washington was even real let alone out 1st president.
By faith in the men and women who were witnesses and documented the account, I believe that George Washington was who history describes him to be.
Do we know everything about him there there is to know? Of course not.
Could some of the account's details be fudged or exaggerated? Of course that's possible.
Is it likely that there are gross errors in the account? Not likely, they would have been challenged by those who were also there and knew better.
The accounts of the NT were written by those people who at the time were deemed as credible and knowledgeable, and lined up with what others who were also witnesses agreed upon. The difference between world history and Biblical History is that man did not take it upon himself to write the account, they were moved upon by the Holy Spirit to do so.
Do the accounts look different from the perspective of 2 or 3 guys who viewed it? You bet.
IF - God was really behind the influence of the writings, would He be able to ensure that what He wanted for our instruction- got written down? Without a doubt.
Is it possible for man to water it down innocently through translations of translations or on purpose to confuse the truth? Yes, but - (There are good and not so good translations out there) All good modern day translations are from the original Greek and Hebrew, not from a copy of a translation of a translation of a translation.
At some point we have to have faith that the source is trustworthy before we can give it much credence. The original text is trustworthy, even if we as Christian's can't agree on what it means.
If we as Christian's who believe that God created everything in all of creation, can't also believe that God is able to preserve His word for us, then we have bigger problems than you might at 1st imagine.
While there are many things that you can see and determine using cultural anthropology, you too must at some point trust in the validity of the account from those who have gone before you.
OR ELSE
We are all destined to do it all on our own and then we won't get very far as we are not all skilled in a given area.
Faith by it's very definition is the ability to believe without seeing all of the details for yourself. Faith is the substance for which we confidently hope or trust in a thing. To a Christian, God has proven Himself a trustworthy source even when we don't understand.
You my brother do have faith on a level, and I pray that your faith is increased and your desire for it is also increased!
Human, that was a great post!!!! It was warm, informative, compassionate, and accurate. Right on target! You out did anything I could even think up!
I wonder why this fellow Jax didn't feel comfortable here. Could be the spirits were clashing?? We did everything but cook him a meal, and the scuttlebutt has it, that Lisa quit painting just in time to start that. Since Eve's bringing Key Lime Pie, I'll just bring Jessi and my appetite!
All joking aside, we need to pray for Jax. He didn't stumble in here by accident. Holy Father in Heaven, we come to You in the Precious Name of Jesus uplifting iJax to Your love and grace. Father we tried to keep him here, but I'm not sure he'll be back. You know his life and You know his pitfalls. Meet him where he is, as he is seeking. ...seeking for truth and answers. Lord, I plead the Blood of Jesus over him. I loose the Love of Heaven on him, the feeling that he is no longer alone, per Your Word. In these times, he and his family needs an anchor, and You are that anchor. Bless him Lord so that he can't deny Your reality. Make the pieces fit for him and stand him tall to work for Your Kingdom. Lord we thank You for what You are about to do in his life. For it's in the Wonderful Name of Jesus I pray, Amein.
Yes Father, all we ask we ask in Jesus' precious name knowing it will be done! Amen & AmenHuman, that was a great post!!!! It was warm, informative, compassionate, and accurate. Right on target! You out did anything I could even think up!
I wonder why this fellow Jax didn't feel comfortable here. Could be the spirits were clashing?? We did everything but cook him a meal, and the scuttlebutt has it, that Lisa quit painting just in time to start that. Since Eve's bringing Key Lime Pie, I'll just bring Jessi and my appetite!
Holy Father in Heaven, we come to You in the Precious Name of Jesus Yes Jesus uplifting iJax to Your love and grace.Yes Father Father we tried to keep him here, but I'm not sure he'll be back. You know his life and You know his pitfalls. Meet him where he is, as he is seeking. ...seeking for truth and answers. Lord, I plead the Blood of Jesus over him. Yes Lord, we plead the blood of Jesus to lead iJax back to you.. He hungers for truth and he's seeking knowledge I loose the Love of Heaven on him, Yes Father!the feeling that he is no longer alone, per Your Word. In these times, he and his family needs an anchor, and You are that anchor. Yes Lord, be an anchor!Bless him Lord so that he can't deny Your reality.Yes Father become a reality to him! Make the pieces fit for him and stand him tall to work for Your Kingdom. Yes Father, you are faithful to finish all work you've begun! Lord we thank You for what You are about to do in his life. Yes Father, we give you praise and Thanks. For it's in the Wonderful Name of Jesus I pray, Amein.
I'll go back and read eHumans post, but this post explains why I deleted by posts and left the thread. Since its still in my "my Post" selection I continue to see it and check on it...curiosity again...LOL
Great post ehuman. I see now my posts were mis-worded and not understood. I see no reason to explain further since it will just ruffle more feathers.... and that in itself proves my point on software. Love to you all, but it seems this forum is not for me.
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iJax, you are welcome here any time to read through the posts. You may ask questions concerning the Bible. But I wasn't getting any sense that you were here to ask questions, but just to give your opinion on why the Bible is "wrong". Again, you're still welcome here. (Maybe we can get a few of those false assumptions out of your head.
)
Come back anytime iJax! I promise we can lead you to the ONE who can re-wire all that 'hardware' with some perfect 'software!'
The fact that you came here, Jax, and was so respectful, you're welcome here anytime. We may not be your cup of tea at the moment, but we're gonna be here if you need us! The 'WELCOME' mat is out!
The fact that something was pointedly said to cause him to assume he shouldn't be here... frankly? Concerns and disapoints me.
(While this isn't directed at you SC), It is one thing for for those of us in the faith to passionately debate what a piece of scripture truly means, we agree it is truth but battle over it's true meaning.
It is another thing entirely to rise up (in pride or arrogance or any other motivation) and verbally attack a non believer and assume it represents God in any way, shape or form.
My heart sank when I first read through this thread (I got to it just belor the posts were deleted so I didn't miss much), and I think that we as Christian's need to get over ourselves and stop talking about Christ and start representing Him.
It was for the sake of the lost that Jesus came. He never railed against the lost, only the "pious and religious". He reached out to the lost, He didn't shame them.
We don't know who our testimony is being witness by and how it will affect them, but it surely is witnessed by God.
I don't apologize if this comes off as offensive, but I do apologize for the offense that anyone may take from it (work that out, it'll make sense). Because if by the offense taken the problem is fixed then it is a good thing and will produce good fruit..
Yes, I'm the one that pointed said something that made him feel like he shouldn't be here. He wasn't interested in debating a point in scripture, otherwise he would have used scripture. Instead, he boasted about how he knew more about what the culture was like 2000 years ago than what the Bible did. If he would have asked about specific scripture, I would have been happy to discuss it with him but he considered scripture to be "software" and not important.
As far as talking about Christ rather than "representing Him", I've met super nice people from all over the world representing various "religions". Being "really nice" is not what makes a person a Christian! How can I explain the difference without "talking about Christ"? While Christ did preach being "nice" to others, some of His last words before ascending into Heaven were not about "being nice", they were about preaching the gospel to all!
I won't apologize for speaking about Christ. And I told him that if he has questions about scripture or wants to come look into the Bible study that he's welcome. And frankly, I'm glad that he deleted his posts on his own. Anyone could come in here and read that "Mary got pregnant while Joseph was away on business." or "Joseph brought Mary to Bethlehem even though they weren't married because with the birth of his son, Joseph would get an income tax break." And since no one here was disagreeing with him, a visitor would think that what he was saying was true!! People aren't "won" to Christ by being nice to them, they are won to Christ by hearing about Him and what He did!!
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