Burnt taste with all my attys

[GoodDog]

I now have a Tornado, I ordered the kit and received it last Friday. The atomizers are Joye, re-branded by Totally Wicked.

When comparing the two atomizers I received in the Tornado kit with the atomizers I received in my Joye 510 starter kits, I notice a few differences.

When looking inside the atomizers using a bright light and magnifying glass:

1. The wire mesh bridge on the Totally Wicked (thick gold band) 510 atomizer is more organized and looks denser. It looks like there is slightly more wire mesh on the TW atomizer bridge.

2. The wire mesh from the bridge that surrounds the white rectangle on the standard 510 atomizers from the Joye 510 starter kit looks messy and random with wire bits sticking up. The wire mesh on the Totally Wicked atomizer that surrounds the white rectangular piece in the center of the atomizer is contained, and looks secured with no bits of wire sticking up anywhere.

3. The white rectangular piece that sits under the wire mesh bridge looks slightly thicker on the Totally Wicked atomizer in comparison to the Joye 510 kit atomizer. (it's a very slight difference). Are they both made of the exact same material?

4. On two of my atomizers from Joye 510 kits the wire mesh on the bridge is cut, leaving a gap where I can see the metal bridge support. On a few of the others the wire mesh is sparse in places, and I can see the metal bridge support through the wire mesh.

5. The wicking material on several of the Joye 510 kit atomizers isn't neatly tucked into the hole surrounded by the white rectangular piece. It's frayed and sticking out. On two of the atomizers, it's resting up against the wall of the metal atomizer tube. On the TW atomizers, the wicking material is neat, not frayed and looks securely tucked into the hole surrounded by the white rectangular piece.
________

Without pictures, that was hard to describe, but there are noticeable differences between the atomizers.

I haven't had any issues at all with the TW atomizers. Right out of the box they performed beautifully. I tried them both to ensure they were working and randomly chose one. I've been using it in my Tornado PV since Friday with no issues.

What does this mean? I can't state fact, only surmise that while they are both manufactured by the same company, Joye Tech has different manufacturing plants and levels of quality based on the resale objective.

Perhaps there is a reason why Janty and Totally Wicked (and perhaps other vendors who re-brand and carry these atomizers) charge more for certain 510 atomizers and can offer a warranty based on this? Perhaps there was a large batch of atomizers meant for the 510 starter kits, and individual sales that were not manufactured up to standard?

Is there anyway to confirm or dispute my observations? It would make sense that Joye Tech manufactures 510 atomizers at different places using slightly different materials, meant for different buyers at different price points. Is there a way to find out if this is the case?

Does anyone else who is having the problem also have Janty, TW or other "gold banded" 510 atomizers as well as the Joye atomizers without the gold band and can take a look into the atomizers with a light and magnifying glass and make a similar comparison?

Just food for thought.

Remie, I was reading back over this thread and noticed your findings to be the same as Sun Vaporer's tests. Let's hope when Joye resumes their manufacturing after the CNY their quality control will be better.

I hope those with these bad attys are contacting their suppliers so Joye knows that we aren't going to stand for this nonsense!

 

[Remie]

Thanks GoodDog - yeah, I just didn't have the "vaping vocabulary" to understand or explain it the way Sun did.

I did end up dissecting one of the atomizers and I too noticed that when I pulled the bridge off the wire mesh crumbled. It was in little fused bits on a paper towel.

I posted about the dissection because it proved the atomizer wasn't "over heating" and fusing the plastic venturi.

Sun's post gave explanations and tied everything together.

Let's hope that we see this issue disappear as new stock makes it's way through the supply chain.

 

[rosesense]

I am reporting back on my findings. We may have two different issues and they could be related as in the atty getting too hot. I removed the wicking threads on my bad ones, cleaned everything and tried them again. It took a lot of cleaning but the nasty taste did go away. They don't seem to wick as well, of course but they at least can be used for now. I gently poked at the bridge to see if it crumbled and it seems to be intact and I cannot see a big discoloration. I didn't take them apart though so can't be sure.

Before anyone says it was just a dry atty, I am sure that was not the problem. I keep it wet, fill often and drip on the atty. The smell/taste was so awful that I had a sick stomach for 3 days and almost caved and went back to smoking.

Another thing is I smelled the burned wick threads when I took them out and OMG, same terrible, nasty smell on them.

 

[Blaze]

I'm gonna toss my .02 cents in the ring on this one, because I think I've found (at least in part) the culprit behind the "burnt enuf to make you wanna vomit and stink up your entire house" taste. Saw this video:

YouTube - How to remove your Wick

and decided "what the heck", the atty was garbage anyway, at least as far as I was concerned, so I did as instructed by the video to remove the wick (and he's absolutely right about it being a PITA removing a used atty wick), and what I discovered about made me gag. The ends of the "threads" that immediately came out were pristine white, but what followed was the blackest, nastiest looking chunk of garbage I've seen I a long time. I dripped about 5 drops onto the atty, fired it up, and it was an instantaneous change. No more "burnt" taste, no toxic smell, the taste of the juice actually improved, and the TH about took me outta my chair coughing. The only problem I see is atty flooding CAN be a major issue, and it requires "top off" about every 6-7 hits. All that aside, it actually simulates the "feel" of an analog better than any PV I've used to date, and is a very simple fix.

Not sure if this is the only reason behind these problems, but I'd have to say it's a large part. Methinks the designers need to go back to the drawing board. Sorry if someone already posted something similar, but let's face it, this thread is huge and I got bored after page 18 LOL

If it was me I would switch to the 901 employing an adaptor until the issue clears if I could not find a Supplier for the 510, that can supply me with atomizers that are not defective.

Edit: LOL figures I would miss Sun's report just after I got bored reading. BTW, can you reco a good supplier for a cheap 901 adapter that's actually in stock?

 

[KingVapor]

To the poster above. I never had luck with just removing the wick. I have to remove the bridge along with the wick. Flooding occurs a little quicker than normal, but only because you added to much juice or you accidentally blew air through the atomizer. Luckily, I use this atty with the eGo and it has a cone that stops the juice from leaking. The only bad taste that ever occurs with this setup is an accidental dry burn or the coil needs a quick rinse and clean.

 

[voltaire]

Blaze:

If you still have the wick you removed, try holding it with some tweezers or something and put a flame to it. See if it melts (it shouldn't) and see if you can burn off the "blackest, nastiest looking chunk of garbage" on the wick.

Based on the reports of the crumbling and burnt mesh, it sounds like you may have had a different problem then what the other people have complained of. That mesh isn't supposed to burn and crumble, and if it does that means you're basically inhaling what burned away - which is really not good!

I know I won't be buying any Joye 510 attys for a while. I've got 7 in use and 3 new ones, so I will try to make those last me. If I have to order more any time soon, they'll be clones for sure.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Thanks GoodDog - yeah, I just didn't have the "vaping vocabulary" to understand or explain it the way Sun did.

I did end up dissecting one of the atomizers and I too noticed that when I pulled the bridge off the wire mesh crumbled. It was in little fused bits on a paper towel.

I posted about the dissection because it proved the atomizer wasn't "over heating" and fusing the plastic venturi.

Sun's post gave explanations and tied everything together.

Let's hope that we see this issue disappear as new stock makes it's way through the supply chain.

On behalf of all the Members here at ECF, I have contacted some of the manufactures to apprise them of this issue and see if it can be resolved. Two of them have already gotten back to me and said that they would look into it.

I do not expect them to admit to anything, but rather just get the issued fixed.


Sun

 

[Scottbee]

On behalf of all the Members here at ECF, I have contacted some of the manufactures to apprise them of this issue and see if it can be resolved. Two of them have already gotten back to me and said that they would look into it.

I do not expect them to admit to anything, but rather just get the issued fixed.


Sun

Are there multiple manufacturers for the Joye 510 atty?

 

[Kelemvor]

i burned the nasty crumbles today on a popped 510 atomizer, inside there shined snow-white
fibers.... so what if the carboned nasty things is just old remains of liquid ?

and what some smell is the overheated remains of the liquid they use ?

but maybe i just never had one of the wrong manufactured 510 you all speak of.

 

[KingVapor]

I think part of this thread is new users tasting dry wicking and burnt flavors. The other part is a manufacturing flaw where the mesh is broken or handled improperly and has fallen down into the heating element putting off a nasty smoke / odor right? Two major differences if this is the case.

 

[goodmand]

I started looking into the problem of my atomizer when I was unable to draw and get a good hit. So I tried my other atomizer (brand new). I've been reading alot of posts here and no to rinse the atty then I blew it out. I noticed some white nylon hairs under the bridge. These could potentially come in contact with the red hot coil. Looking down into the new atomizer while pressing the button I could literally see these touching the coil burning and stinking to high heaven. Like if I were to be putting a torch to it. Toxic????? wow. I believe it is defiantly a manufactures defect no question. Because the white fibers should never be able to come into direct contact with the coil. (thats just common sense. SRY) I would not go as far as removing all the white fibers like the ones nice and neatly wrapped around the bridge because they (like many people have said) help with the wicking process and they are the for a reason. Then as a final step look into the atty at your red hot coil and burn burn burn away all that potential toxic whatever. Do a final rinse and examination to make sure all the white fiber cannot come in contact with the coil. I know that people have said something similar because I've read it but they say to remove all the white stuff from the edges and they don't care because they drip anyway. The idea of these devices is to keep the coil and the nylon separate but work together. I'm not done either .......LOL. In comparison of the two attys the old one and the new one. I found a few significant differences. When I pressed on the button to fire up the old atty. it just sizzled a little and that was it no glow that my new atty. has. I had to dig deeper this thing obviously has a problem. This is the reason for not enough vapor. So I dissembled the atty. and found that there was charred melted crap all over the coil probably the cause of the coil not glowing to a red hot. I can tell you that smoking nylon is not good for your health and that is what I believe it was. The reason: well I just got my 510 and I was a little anxious to get it going and I rinsed it like I've been told but I really didn't check it over to well like look at it under a magnifying glass. I think that over a couple of days this excess nylon material slowly melted and burned over my coil little by little. And this is what I found when I took the atty. apart like black burnt chunks. I'm open to criticism and I'm just as hyped about these e-cigs as everyone else here.

 

[Kelemvor]

its not nylon, its fibre glas if heated to very extreme temperatures it turns to .... glas. not very toxic imho.

the nasty stuff you see is, imho again, dried and burned liquid residue ( hope i spelled that correct)

 

[Scottbee]

I started looking into the problem of my atomizer.....

As Kelemvor has already said.. it's not nylon, it is essentially fiberglass. Secondly, it is supposed to run from the bridge down to the coil, and be in contact with the coil. If you have removed it, or changed it in such a way that it no longer touches the coil.. then you have ruined the function of your atty (based on the original design intent).

And the "blob of hard gunk" that encapsulates the coil on older atties is the byproduct of vaporizing the liquid.. leaving behind liquid elements that did not or would not vaporize.

And.... although it was stated earlier in a different post... the nickel mesh bridge and surrounding material is not supposed to "heat up". Current does not run through it and it is not a heating element. If it gets hot, it is incidental.. a byproduct of radiant, convection, and conduction heat transfer coupling from the coil. The actual temperature of the nickel mesh stays relatively low, by design.

 

[goodmand]

Ok, fiber glass I believe that I was incorrect about that. But I think what I described is happening as far as the melting on the coil part. Thats probably why it takes a while for it start impeding the performance of the atty. because it would take longer to melt. But I don't agree with the stuff being burnt liquid. I don't think it would be so crunchy and that stuff should burn cleanly away. I will admit I'm very new to this and trying to solve my own problems here. Can you answer what I said about the coils in the old one and then in the new. One is only like two weeks old and the coil doesn't fire up properly. It doesn't turn red hot.

 

[Kelemvor]

you don't really want me to kill a fresh atomizer just for a test, no ?

 

[goodmand]

If you have an old atty. that doesn't work well doesn't give good vapor, hard to draw through. And then a new atty that works great. Could you see if you are having the same issue. If you just look down into the atty to see your different results. See if they both glow red hot.

 

[Kelemvor]

sure, but after a "soft dryburn session" they tend to vape nearly as new, most of the time any bad smell went away very soon. i do that before i toss them into the bin.

it semes i found the sweat spot to get rid of most of the badparts without popping the atomizer. if this only works for 2 weeks its still a win situation.

sorry, but it would be a pain to write a howto in english for me, but i think that its posted very similar around here somewhere.

only important change i do is to really make short burns, if its getting red i stop.
and after a few burns i pause until it cooled down. i hope this way does not hurt the little plastic thing with the airhole Scottbee mentioned sometimes, and does not melt the fibres to soon. it may take 30 to 40 session, but you will see that the coil reacts faster and faster to the button press.

 

[Remie]

goodmand - read back through this thread (I know it's long) I have taken apart and compared atomizers, Sun Vaporer has as well.

Scottbee probably has more technical knowledge overall regarding the composition and function on these things than most of us combined.

I'm not trying to discourage you - just trying to save you some time and headache...

There are also very good threads here regarding atomizer voltage and detailed pictures of atomizer dissection (again, by Scottbee) - give them a read, it's informative and will help you technically as far as the atomizer's design components and overall function

It is very possible for e-liquid to leave residue on the heating coil. Most e-liquid flavors contain sweeteners that certainly can leave a hard crusty residue. Have you ever caramelized sugar? (sucralose is often the sweetener used in e-liquid) It doesn't take a tremendous amount of heat to cause a caramelizing effect on a lot of food grade ingredients.

The fiberglass wicking may discolor, but it won't "burn" - there is nothing hot enough "burning" inside an atomizer to "cook" the fiberglass wicking. What you may be noticing is again - the e-liquid residue on the wicking that is causing what you are describing. Perhaps?

An atomizer is disposable, it's not designed to last forever. A decline in performance over time is to be expected.

I quickly learned that the atomizer is the "unknown" in the vaping equation and often a crap-shoot. For less than the cost of a pack of cigarettes, I can buy an atomizer, so now I stock up when I can and always have back-ups.

If one stops performing, I toss it in a jar and use a new one. If I feel like messing with them, I do it for fun and to experiment. If I happen to revive one, great. If not... it goes into the trash

Good luck!

 

[Sun Vaporer]

One of the reasons I started the Expermenting with Our Equipment section on this Forum almost a year ago was to rule out and discover ways that actually worked to clean the residual build up on the coil. Here is a good picture of a coil after a weeks worth of use.

This residual in no way emits an odor or a taste, but it will cause the atomizer coil to fail as the residual builds up to the point it actually lifts the leads up and snaps the connections to the battery.

You will find this residual on every coil of every atomizer in use. That is not the issue---the issue is the nickel mesh burning. It is not suppose to do that at all. As for the fiberglass wick, you simply are not going to get that fiberglass to burn either.

Here is a picture of the same atomizer coil after it was cleaned:

You can see the fiberglass does take on a dark color, but that is not because it burnt in any way.


This thread does in fact deal with a few issues including cartridge poylester fiber burning which has nothing to do with the 510 burnt taste issue.

I hope that clarifies what people are dealing with.


Sun

 

[FunkJunky]

New vapor here. wanted to jump in the thread because I seem to be having lots of these issues

1. bought on old titan 510 atomizer from e-smokersclub or something. Pulled the wick fibers out since I'm a dripper and dont use the cartridge packing material.
2. blew all the primer out on to a paper towel, wiped all the parts clean to get as much of the junk out as possible.
3. dropped in a few drops of e-liquid
4. did a few burns into my mouth to burn out the primer
5. after several hits, it seemed to be fine.

with certain liquids, it only seems capable of vaping about 3-4 hits before I get a burnt taste and have to rejuice it. On other liquids, it lasts a normal amount of time. this seems funny to me

I also ordered a 5 pack of 510 atomizers from TW
1. same procedure as before
2. So far, the ones I have tried this with NEVER lose the intense chemical burn taste. no matter how much juice I put in there and puff, its giving me awful acrid smoke

Clearly there is something wrong with these atomizers. Either they are only capable of vaping a couple of hits before the burn taste happens and vapor production greatly diminishes (and this is with at least 3 drops of liquid in there), or it constantly emits a foul burnt chemical cloud.

My question is, is there anything else I should try to make these things work right? Should I start being the DSE 510 atomizers from Sailebao instead? What is the performance differences between the SLB 510 units from the Joye units?

I really want this to work as it is a wonderful idea that can help a lot of people. Furthermore, I want to start reselling these units but there is no way I can do that if manufacturer defects make the product not only unusable, but extremely dangerous to people's health.