CALLING ON THE VAPING COMMUNITY TO CONTACT PRESIDENT TRUMP
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Sorry, your biased attitude on Trump is part of the problem. Maybe it won't help in the long run, but I'm not giving up if there's any chance that spending 10 minutes of my time could be a part of the solution.
I'm Not Exactly Crazy about many of the Things Trump is doing. Or More Precisely, the Way he is going about them.
But all the Parisian Tribal Bull
aside, would the Alternative have been better when it Comes to e-Cigarettes?
Biased against Trump? He threw out an unsolicited and nearly incomprehensible pronouncement that he was going to ban flavors to distract from the fact that the Taliban was invited to Camp David during 9/11 memorials. How do you think appealing to that is part of the solution? IMO, our gambit has to be turning public opinion and we are way behind. I see slivers of hope though.
I'm Not Exactly Crazy about many of the Things Trump is doing. Or More Precisely, the Way he is going about them.
But all the Parisian Tribal Bull
He's in power. He delivered the edict. I would feel the same no matter who did it.
Fair Enough.
So I suppose if the Alternative Hadn't Extended the FDA Compliance Deadline like Trump did, and taken a Look-the-Other-Way approach to Post 8-8-16 Products, you wouldn't have Liked that either?
I don't particularly hate Trump and I personally think we have had far worse presidents out there.
IDK if "Melania" was behind the hype, but if so, would it be kosher to say that from the beginning, I was not her, ah, biggest fan?
Anyway, it is indeed possible that Trump is doing all this as a distraction as the "major players' get their houses in order, and then the hammer falls later on. Gosh I'm not saying don't tweet, and don't call, it's a good idea.
I'm just saying our government is a many headed hydra-monster, and the hammer could just as easily fall elsewhere. Getting Trump to "relax" on a flavor ban may be a good thing, but there are many things governments in ALL the states, not to mention the rest of the Feds can and will possibly do to Achilles heel vaping. In a variety of ways.
Anna
IDK if "Melania" was behind the hype, but if so, would it be kosher to say that from the beginning, I was not her, ah, biggest fan?
Anyway, it is indeed possible that Trump is doing all this as a distraction as the "major players' get their houses in order, and then the hammer falls later on. Gosh I'm not saying don't tweet, and don't call, it's a good idea.
I'm just saying our government is a many headed hydra-monster, and the hammer could just as easily fall elsewhere. Getting Trump to "relax" on a flavor ban may be a good thing, but there are many things governments in ALL the states, not to mention the rest of the Feds can and will possibly do to Achilles heel vaping. In a variety of ways.
Anna
Vaping Prohibition is On the Table in Congress! - CASAA
Things are looking bleak. But I'm not going to be part of the problem by not being active, but remain being pro-active. I refuse to lay down and play dead.
I'm contacting my politicians. I'm trying to help educate the public by exposing fear mongering journalism and presenting fact based information about vaping on Face Book. Lynn Lutz
Vaping is too important to me to just look away without a fight. How important is vaping to you all?
I am NOT going back to smoking. I'd rather not reconsider the other nicotine harm reduction options, they never worked for me before. I'm not going to use black market products. I'm prepared to going back to my mech mods, rebuilding my own coils, and making my own e-liquids, but I'd rather not.
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I'm Not Exactly Crazy about many of the Things Trump is doing. Or More Precisely, the Way he is going about them.
But all the Parisian Tribal Bull
Doubtful.
I'm sure if Hillary was Prez there would be just as much bashing and honestly no one in govt is on our side, they all suck when it comes to vaping.I'm Not Exactly Crazy about many of the Things Trump is doing. Or More Precisely, the Way he is going about them.
But all the Parisian Tribal Bull
Some may say that is putting it Mildly. But I'm not here to Fan Partisan flames.
I am a moderate kind of middle of the road kind of guy.
Yeah... I guess some just Suck a little less than Others.
BTW - Could you Imagine what things would be like if Dick Durbin was the FDA Commissionaire ?
BTW - Could you Imagine what things would be like if Dick Durbin was the FDA Commissionaire ?
I hope that I forget your comment before bedtime. I need sleep.
That would be my campaign slogan when I run for legislative office, "Vote CMD, he sucks a little less than that other character."
There are still a few ways this could play out. First, we all knew May, 2020 was looming. Flavors were always going to be a stumbling block, as with hundreds of flavors, each with several ingredients, all being mixed in different proportions in different rations of PG/VG and varying strengths of nic, establishing safety was going to be a nightmare. In fact, I can't think of any sound way to even do it. The matrix is too large. That right there would have likely thrown on the brakes, but without the media attention, hysteria, and mobilization of the vaping community. And as the PMTA process would then be spread over another year of FDA evaluating all the applications that were made, we would have seen a slow, agonizing, and probably quiet death occur to vaping.
Now, we had a public health emergency. Kids on ventilators. People dead. And it was all vaping! The politicians are jumping up and down with a cause to pander to the public with. Then it turns out nope, wasn't us nicotine vapers, it was those THC vapers using an illegal products. Now, politicians being how they are, weren't about to go "sorry, my bad, never mind", so they doubled down on flavors and save the children.
Thanks to that, the vaping community has erupted in flat out anger. It also turns out there were a lot more of us willing to make noise than I think they realized existed or the push back they'd get. So we have a bit of a standoff for now. But when May comes around, the FDA is now on notice that throwing up obstacles to flavored vape juice will result in not just some lawsuits (they're used to those and couldn't care less) but in lots, as in hundreds of thousands of activist vapers confronting them, with several million more vapers in the background who if they're not stupid enough to go back to smoking, will give pause that may well have not otherwise occurred. So they MIGHT (and that a big might) decide to take a longer watch and see on flavors rather than a flat out "you can't prove it's safe" approach. Again, MIGHT, but it's the type of pragmatic solution to a sketchy political problem.
Then there are the states. The actions being taken on a state and even city basis are all justified on the lack of any federal action, therefore taking this into their local hands. But what happens when there ARE concrete approvals and guidelines from the Feds? Does federal preemption prevail? The states and cities aren't as sanguine about lawsuits as the FDA, and all the other fed agencies can be, because they don't have the deep pockets or the deep roster of a big Justice Department to back them up. There was a case several years ago in NY during the last state attack to treat vaping as smoking for regulatory and tax purposes and the State Court of Appeals was like "this sure doesn't look or smell like a cigarette" and tossed it. That's precedent, at least in NY.
This will take lots of thought by some very bright legal eagles on the vaping side. This mass media and political attacks (most important, politicians, as they hate to look like fools or be wrong) on vaping when it wasn't even vaping, as we know it, that caused these illnesses, suffer a loss of credibility, not so much to the public, but to the agencies involved who jumped the gun and allowed for such an inappropriate hostile environment to erupt in the first place.
The FDA now has a presidential tweet (which seems to be the way we now govern this nation) about alternative and black market stuff as the problem and keep it out of the hands of kids, but not those who need it. And most of us here need it to stay away from a product that was killing us (still is if you're not 15-20 years out, to be sure whatever illness you develop isn't related to your past smoking history) not get a buzz or blow clouds. That's the message that has to be hammered home over the next weeks and months. This isn't something we do for fun, it's something we do to save our lives.
This is why we need a coordinated #vapingsaveslives campaign. Stay on message, gather and present every piece of objective positive medical research available, and put our opponents on the defensive for a change. Let them see the faces of middle age and older vapers desperate to stay away from cigarettes, and not the little brats blowing rings outside their school. Their parents and grandparents trying to stay around a little longer to spend time with their loved ones. Shift the camera angle some.
I'd love to have an economic report out of the UK's NHS of how much money is saved on transitioning smokers to vaping and decreasing medical utilization and resources. It's unfortunate it's too early for that information, but that would be powerful, especially with all the talk about healthcare, insurance, and how much it really costs. Because it's not free, someone is paying for it all, even in the UK as we sometimes forget here in the US. And it's not coming out of the polticians pockets.
Edit: there are more typos in this than proper words. I'm cleaning it up as best I can. No, you don't have to wait 120 years to be sure what you died from wasn't from your past smoking. If you do live another 120 years to assure the accuracy of my statement you're gonna need a bigger freezer and a lot more nic.
Now, we had a public health emergency. Kids on ventilators. People dead. And it was all vaping! The politicians are jumping up and down with a cause to pander to the public with. Then it turns out nope, wasn't us nicotine vapers, it was those THC vapers using an illegal products. Now, politicians being how they are, weren't about to go "sorry, my bad, never mind", so they doubled down on flavors and save the children.
Thanks to that, the vaping community has erupted in flat out anger. It also turns out there were a lot more of us willing to make noise than I think they realized existed or the push back they'd get. So we have a bit of a standoff for now. But when May comes around, the FDA is now on notice that throwing up obstacles to flavored vape juice will result in not just some lawsuits (they're used to those and couldn't care less) but in lots, as in hundreds of thousands of activist vapers confronting them, with several million more vapers in the background who if they're not stupid enough to go back to smoking, will give pause that may well have not otherwise occurred. So they MIGHT (and that a big might) decide to take a longer watch and see on flavors rather than a flat out "you can't prove it's safe" approach. Again, MIGHT, but it's the type of pragmatic solution to a sketchy political problem.
Then there are the states. The actions being taken on a state and even city basis are all justified on the lack of any federal action, therefore taking this into their local hands. But what happens when there ARE concrete approvals and guidelines from the Feds? Does federal preemption prevail? The states and cities aren't as sanguine about lawsuits as the FDA, and all the other fed agencies can be, because they don't have the deep pockets or the deep roster of a big Justice Department to back them up. There was a case several years ago in NY during the last state attack to treat vaping as smoking for regulatory and tax purposes and the State Court of Appeals was like "this sure doesn't look or smell like a cigarette" and tossed it. That's precedent, at least in NY.
This will take lots of thought by some very bright legal eagles on the vaping side. This mass media and political attacks (most important, politicians, as they hate to look like fools or be wrong) on vaping when it wasn't even vaping, as we know it, that caused these illnesses, suffer a loss of credibility, not so much to the public, but to the agencies involved who jumped the gun and allowed for such an inappropriate hostile environment to erupt in the first place.
The FDA now has a presidential tweet (which seems to be the way we now govern this nation
) about alternative and black market stuff as the problem and keep it out of the hands of kids, but not those who need it. And most of us here need it to stay away from a product that was killing us (still is if you're not 15-20 years out, to be sure whatever illness you develop isn't related to your past smoking history) not get a buzz or blow clouds. That's the message that has to be hammered home over the next weeks and months. This isn't something we do for fun, it's something we do to save our lives.This is why we need a coordinated #vapingsaveslives campaign. Stay on message, gather and present every piece of objective positive medical research available, and put our opponents on the defensive for a change. Let them see the faces of middle age and older vapers desperate to stay away from cigarettes, and not the little brats blowing rings outside their school. Their parents and grandparents trying to stay around a little longer to spend time with their loved ones. Shift the camera angle some.
I'd love to have an economic report out of the UK's NHS of how much money is saved on transitioning smokers to vaping and decreasing medical utilization and resources. It's unfortunate it's too early for that information, but that would be powerful, especially with all the talk about healthcare, insurance, and how much it really costs. Because it's not free, someone is paying for it all, even in the UK as we sometimes forget here in the US. And it's not coming out of the polticians pockets.
Edit: there are more typos in this than proper words. I'm cleaning it up as best I can. No, you don't have to wait 120 years to be sure what you died from wasn't from your past smoking. If you do live another 120 years to assure the accuracy of my statement you're gonna need a bigger freezer and a lot more nic.
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I get edited for saying BLOTUS when SCROTUS is lying. Here we go again.
You get edited because this is a forum for adults, physically, you may be one but you seem unable to learn and enjoy irritating half the people here by regaling us with your juvenile "wit".
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Scuse the snip from your thorough post, I'm sure that there is work ongoing to analyse those cost savings but it's a few years away yet as you say, at least. I'll ask a friend who is in medical policy research and see if she knows anything.
NHS has far more urgent issues to deal with, a possibly limited supply of critical medicines and a worsening staff shortage post-brexit being just two. They do need that data asap though in order to be able to plan future resourcing as the NHS is increasingly squeezed on all sides.
BT influence and cash is not so powerful in the UK these days as it is in the USA, it's there but the weight and reach of our academic institutions and the evidence based foundation of NHS research and practice has largely been able to fend it off.
I'll repeat my belief that the attacks on vaping in the US are founded on a base of BT cash and it's deep and very effective influence within your legislative bodies and upon individual politicians...and the vaping industry itself it seems.
The power of such influence is evident in the UK too, but we suffer in other spheres, take a look at the recorded business interests of MPs, Ministers and Peers - they own and/or "lobby" & consult for communications, energy, media, transport, prisons, parts of the NHS, arms related companies and so on. Fortunately not so much BT these days here.
Some folks insist on saying 'please don't politicise this vaping struggle', that's missing the point by a long mile.
All I can say is do what you feel you have to do, good luck!
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