Can't see the Deeming forest for the Deeming trees?

[OcalaFlGuy]

I'm sure most here have heard me agree with PB and Dimitris "theory" that the FDA Intended deeming to get mired down in lawsuits and Congress. That being the most sensical option as for one thing,that gets the FDA off the hook for actually having to Accomplish something with vaping while being able to say, Hey, we Tried.

I had yet another epiphany. <collective group eyeroll I'm sure>

Along those same lines. Maybe EVERYONE is missing the forest for the trees. What if the FDA really doesn't care At All what happens to juices and hardware in the end? What if that's not what this is even about At All?

What if the Real Objective was simply the part that says that liquid Nic is The Same as a Tobacco leaf, which it obviously is not. At least the same when it comes to TAXES.

The FDA knows they can't even keep the food we all HAVE to eat safe, how do they really think, IF they do, that they can keep all the vaping components safe. Maybe the answer is they really couldn't care less.

Maybe all they Really Want is the tax money. Seems they'll get That Wish no matter HOW The Main Part Of Deeming Everyone Is Paying Attention To pans out. Not even the Pro Vape advocates, Senators or Congressmen have said Wait A Minute, FIRST, E-juice ISN'T the same as a Cigarette... (Not in any serious numbers anyway.)

Another kicker I haven't heard yet on the Tax part of juice. If you're going to say juice is Tobacco for tax purposes than that makes a Patch a Taxable Tobacco leaf now Too doesn't it.
They AREN'T taxed now as they are an over the counter drug. Seems Big Pharm would be Very Unhappy to see the same taxes for E-juice applied to Nic patches and gum. The Pro Vape Senators and Congressmen should keep that in mind too. Maybe some Congressional memos need to go out to NRT Big Pharma to remind them of the New Taxes coming Their way...

Like they say, follow the money.
Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

[tj99959]

Just remember that we need a judicial injunction before August. Otherwise, after that e-cigs ARE a tobacco product. And, IMO that is really all the FDA wants.
After e-cigs become a tobacco product they are pretty much free to do as they wish.

 

[OcalaFlGuy]

I think the first Injunction needed is a few months away, for the age verification in Dec.

Unfortunately, I think the liquid Nic Isn't the same as leaf Tobacco "argument" Isn't an argument that's going to happen to any meaningful degree. That parts done IMO.

Probably not the time now to ask for the Immediate Injunction until it's clear the Agg Appropriations Bill Won't be law before the age check takes effect.
Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

[OcalaFlGuy]

Just remember, the Federal Tax on a pack of smokes is over $1. Multiplied by how many bottles of Juice?

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

[Bonskibon]

Interesting, with the FDA overstepping overkill, if that is indeed the endgame then it kind of makes sense in a way with what they are doing knowing full well what they are trying to do is absurd.

 

[ENAUD]

A more frightening thought is that the FDA actually believes that e-liquid, batteries, software and accesories are actually tobacco products, and that they have the authority to regulate them however they "deem" appropriate.

 

[OcalaFlGuy]

A more frightening thought is that the FDA actually believes that e-liquid, batteries, software and accesories are actually tobacco products, and that they have the authority to regulate them however they "deem" appropriate.

See? THAT part of Deeming is The Only Part that's already all but signed, sealed and delivered.

Have you heard ANY even Republican member of Congress stand up and say, Wait a minute, NONE of this applies to ECigs because juice isn't Tobacco? I sure haven't.

Forest for the Trees...
Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

[inswva]

It's not easy to levy taxes on something you are regulating into non-existence.

 

[puffon]

The FDA has no power to tax anything.
They are just creating a mechanism for the Fed and state governments to tax.

 

[daviedog]

Money & pain are the greatest behavioral modifiers. I started vaping to cut cigarette costs.
The fda did their part,,vaping will be taxed out of existence. Not banned per say/just not economically feasible.
I know of no injunctive relief for hi taxes..

 

[Max-83]

What if the FDA really doesn't care At All what happens to juices and hardware in the end?

They don't because they won't exist in there current form after the deeming regs kick in fully.

how do they really think, IF they do, that they can keep all the vaping components safe.

All they're concerned about "keeping safe" are the closed system cigalike that pass they're PMTA process.

Maybe all they Really Want is the tax money.

Yes, they will apply the cigarette tobacco tax to the sealed cartos at whatever rate is "deem' appropriate.

 

[bnrkwest]

This is just a guess, but I think FDA only wants disposable ecigs on the market, sealed one time use throw away products. So BT can have their products approved and that is end of the story for vapor products. My advise is stock up now on things you like unless in the future all we can get is BT disposable, at $20.00 per ecig! Yikes!

 

[daviedog]

W

This is just a guess, but I think FDA only wants disposable ecigs on the market, sealed one time use throw away products. So BT can have their products approved and that is end of the story for vapor products. My advise is stock up now on things you like unless in the future all we can get is BT disposable, at $20.00 per ecig! Yikes!

What goes around comes around.
Back in the day,,folks 'modified' the closed systems that were in vogue..

 

[Tommy-Chi]

More gibber jabber...

I cannot read minds or second guess so the reality is I'll continue to spend btw $350 and $550 per month for the next year to buy supplies so as to keep the FDA out of my life. Abt two weeks ago, I got a $500 line of credit from PayPal for vape sales, and if any worthwhile sales happen I'm pushing all the chips in. That month alone I'll hit $1,000 in purchases.

July 4th is coming up. I suspect sales will be forthcoming. Save your pennies and dimes!

 

[Tempesta]

Stocking-up supplies won't be wasted at any rate, so it is prudent to go ahead and do it.

 

[crxess]

I'm sure most here have heard me agree with PB and Dimitris "theory" that the FDA Intended deeming to get mired down in lawsuits and Congress. That being the most sensical option as for one thing,that gets the FDA off the hook for actually having to Accomplish something with vaping while being able to say, Hey, we Tried.

I had yet another epiphany. <collective group eyeroll I'm sure>

Along those same lines. Maybe EVERYONE is missing the forest for the trees. What if the FDA really doesn't care At All what happens to juices and hardware in the end? What if that's not what this is even about At All?

What if the Real Objective was simply the part that says that liquid Nic is The Same as a Tobacco leaf, which it obviously is not. At least the same when it comes to TAXES.

The FDA knows they can't even keep the food we all HAVE to eat safe, how do they really think, IF they do, that they can keep all the vaping components safe. Maybe the answer is they really couldn't care less.

Maybe all they Really Want is the tax money. Seems they'll get That Wish no matter HOW The Main Part Of Deeming Everyone Is Paying Attention To pans out. Not even the Pro Vape advocates, Senators or Congressmen have said Wait A Minute, FIRST, E-Juice ISN'T the same as a Cigarette... (Not in any serious numbers anyway.)

Another kicker I haven't heard yet on the Tax part of juice. If you're going to say juice is Tobacco for tax purposes than that makes a Patch a Taxable Tobacco leaf now Too doesn't it.
They AREN'T taxed now as they are an over the counter drug. Seems Big Pharm would be Very Unhappy to see the same taxes for E-juice applied to Nic patches and gum. The Pro Vape Senators and Congressmen should keep that in mind too. Maybe some Congressional memos need to go out to NRT Big Pharma to remind them of the New Taxes coming Their way...

Like they say, follow the money.
Bruce in Ocala, Fl

a) Big Pharma.............I have no doubt Califf has already assured them they are Safe under FDA Protection of Pharmaceuticals.
B) Tobacco Taxation in itself is unacceptable. This is a Risk Reducing Product and should Be Treated as such. No different than a Stick of Gum or Chewing on a Pencil. State Sales TAX and noting else.

No Sin Taxes on Harm Reduction!!!!
Greedy

 

[Two_Bears]

The FDA has no power to tax anything.
They are just creating a mechanism for the Fed and state governments to tax.

And they WILL tax vaping into oblivion.

 

[Two_Bears]

Stocking-up supplies won't be wasted at any rate, so it is prudent to go ahead and do it.

Thats my philosophy.

I prepped and i'm ready for 5-7 years.

 

[Two_Bears]

a) Big Pharma.............I have no doubt Califf has already assured them they are Safe under FDA Protection of Pharmaceuticals.
B) Tobacco Taxation in itself is unacceptable. This is a Risk Reducing Product and should Be Treated as such. No different than a Stick of Gum or Chewing on a Pencil. State Sales TAX and noting else.

No Sin Taxes on Harm Reduction!!!!
Greedy

You sure got that right.

 

[rico942]

Imagine an ideal world in which government followed a scientifically informed and benevolent course of action, utilizing tobacco tax revenue to promote vaping and subsidize innovation. In which public health followed their true mandate and used their media access to validate vaping as the ultimate development in smoking cessation. A world where corruption and self enrichment did not drive regulatory agencies, and the mass media reported proven fact rather than sensationalism and hysteria born of puritanical ideology and ignorance ...

Its not easy John, though we do try ...