Capitalists, artisans and vaping
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I would support authentics and would absolutely love to, but it is really hard paying 5x the price for an rda when one that costs 20 bucks will satisfy my needs well enough. A tugboat authentic costs 109.99 at my vape shop. I can pick it up elsewhere for less than 25$. Im not smart enough to know if these machined metal and rubber componets will perform better than one another. I think this is the mindset of the average vaper.
The dollar governs us all, before morals, ,opinion, or anything. We are all trying our best to survive personally in this crazy world. Im a tin knocker HVAC guy, Im looking for the cheapest way out at the end of the day.
They say you get what you pay for, but in vaping, people who have more experience than me will protest that notion.
The dollar governs us all, before morals, ,opinion, or anything. We are all trying our best to survive personally in this crazy world. Im a tin knocker HVAC guy, Im looking for the cheapest way out at the end of the day.
They say you get what you pay for, but in vaping, people who have more experience than me will protest that notion.
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Tacos!? 
I'm not subscribing to this one but from my point of view true artisans are usually the ones copied for both intellectual properties as well as physical entity productions and left on the side lines in most cases to watch the world pass them by.
Just take this from a guy who was making spring loaded 510s before most of the industry had thought about it.
I'm not subscribing to this one but from my point of view true artisans are usually the ones copied for both intellectual properties as well as physical entity productions and left on the side lines in most cases to watch the world pass them by.
Just take this from a guy who was making spring loaded 510s before most of the industry had thought about it.
I really don't see the problem here. The world is big enough for both inventors and cloners. And each play their role.
Recently I was in the mood for Kayfun4. Original is around 200$, knockoffs from 20$ up. It's a no brainer because I live in a country where medium paycheck is less then 350$ (karma can really be a ....., I tell you). But let's assume I can afford the original.
I might easily say "This is a nice gear, reviews are great, I am going to use it for a year or two, my birthday is coming...", add to cart, checkout. Vapemail on the way - hooray! A week later I'd fill the tank and happily puff around. You get what you pay for.
Or I can be cheap (or poor) and go for a knockoff. That includes selecting several manufacturerers (some of them without the name), reading the reviews on the site and blogs, watching tons of reviews on youtube (which is another story - seriously guys, 45 mins of review with 2 mins of title and five mins of unwrapping is ridiculous), trying to connect reviews with models, weighting pros and cons, deciding who to trust... it's three evenings of work. Then make some decision which is still a gamble. And then wait for a month to get the product, wash it throughly and hope for the best. No guarantee, no support, no spare parts. You get what you pay for.
Both inventors and cloners have their markets and their role in the system and they (no matter what they say) complement each other. There wouldn't be Kayfun4 for 200$ if there was no clonned Kayfuns before. The whole scene and market would be severely limited. The whole vaping industry has this insane growth (both in money and invention sense) because there are cloners who make things affordable, expand the market and push the things forward. Not that they don't kill the profit of the original manufacturers, they actually make their business possible.
Recently I was in the mood for Kayfun4. Original is around 200$, knockoffs from 20$ up. It's a no brainer because I live in a country where medium paycheck is less then 350$ (karma can really be a ....., I tell you). But let's assume I can afford the original.
I might easily say "This is a nice gear, reviews are great, I am going to use it for a year or two, my birthday is coming...", add to cart, checkout. Vapemail on the way - hooray! A week later I'd fill the tank and happily puff around. You get what you pay for.
Or I can be cheap (or poor) and go for a knockoff. That includes selecting several manufacturerers (some of them without the name), reading the reviews on the site and blogs, watching tons of reviews on youtube (which is another story - seriously guys, 45 mins of review with 2 mins of title and five mins of unwrapping is ridiculous), trying to connect reviews with models, weighting pros and cons, deciding who to trust... it's three evenings of work. Then make some decision which is still a gamble. And then wait for a month to get the product, wash it throughly and hope for the best. No guarantee, no support, no spare parts. You get what you pay for.
Both inventors and cloners have their markets and their role in the system and they (no matter what they say) complement each other. There wouldn't be Kayfun4 for 200$ if there was no clonned Kayfuns before. The whole scene and market would be severely limited. The whole vaping industry has this insane growth (both in money and invention sense) because there are cloners who make things affordable, expand the market and push the things forward. Not that they don't kill the profit of the original manufacturers, they actually make their business possible.
Oh, goodness, China has a completely different economy than the Western world. And now that they are the industrial capital, they are playing catch up as quickly as possible. When you don't have enough engineers and other professionals, reverse engineering other products in the fastest way to catch up. Like Japan in the 60s and 70s, they will get there. Trust me, in 1975 everyone laughed at the idea of a Japanese car. Very few were laughing a decade later.
Some here act like they are intellectually inferior or something
One of my current favorite attys is the UD Aga-t7. Build quality
Innovative design unlike other RTAs
My favorite mod is the Yihi sx mini. And OMG, a one year warranty!
Some here act like they are intellectually inferior or something
One of my current favorite attys is the UD Aga-t7. Build quality
Innovative design unlike other RTAs My favorite mod is the Yihi sx mini. And OMG, a one year warranty!
Well, they actually may have. According to what Steve Jobs once said to Obama, it is USA who does not have enough engineers:
I was looking over some devices on vapist.net as i really really want a fusion hybrid.
And it dawned on me the part of the argument that is missing here.and in all these types of posts, I agree with the op what's a metal tube with a button worth?
And everyone argues the point of innovation must be paid for!!!!
Yet we point to the umpteenth version of the same tube with a button.
What common vapors don't see is the real innovations these companies and modders come up with. Because it is not popular, is not on the average. Vape shop shelf and China doesn't even attempt to clone because they themselves know they can't do it cheap enough to make a profit.
And almost none of these items have been cloned, yet are in extreme demand. Some are not even new anymore.
A nemesis must take all of 2 hours to mill out, lazer up and toss in a box.
What happens when China has to take 100+ hours to copy something like the fusion? Do people really think they will still charge 50 dollars for this 400 dollar engineering nightmare ? Where .25 mm is considered out of spec for proper function of the vacuum switch?
If people were more in tune with the real innovations going on they wouldn't be posting arguments about 15 dollar tube mods.
A good example is the kayfun 4 there's already 7 or 8 on fasttech. But how many people arguing for clones know many are still complaining because China still hasn't made a true 1:1 clone yet?
If the clones were truly worthy of the originals they wouldn't dump out 10 variations to try and get you to not buy a real one
The foggatti is considered a unicorn by many, yet no one wants the fastech clone and it is discontinued, why? It wasn't a true copy and China couldn't just dump out something that looked like it and say, see? Good enough looks the same.
And it dawned on me the part of the argument that is missing here.and in all these types of posts, I agree with the op what's a metal tube with a button worth?
And everyone argues the point of innovation must be paid for!!!!
Yet we point to the umpteenth version of the same tube with a button.
What common vapors don't see is the real innovations these companies and modders come up with. Because it is not popular, is not on the average. Vape shop shelf and China doesn't even attempt to clone because they themselves know they can't do it cheap enough to make a profit.
And almost none of these items have been cloned, yet are in extreme demand. Some are not even new anymore.
A nemesis must take all of 2 hours to mill out, lazer up and toss in a box.
What happens when China has to take 100+ hours to copy something like the fusion? Do people really think they will still charge 50 dollars for this 400 dollar engineering nightmare ? Where .25 mm is considered out of spec for proper function of the vacuum switch?
If people were more in tune with the real innovations going on they wouldn't be posting arguments about 15 dollar tube mods.
A good example is the kayfun 4 there's already 7 or 8 on fasttech. But how many people arguing for clones know many are still complaining because China still hasn't made a true 1:1 clone yet?
If the clones were truly worthy of the originals they wouldn't dump out 10 variations to try and get you to not buy a real one
The foggatti is considered a unicorn by many, yet no one wants the fastech clone and it is discontinued, why? It wasn't a true copy and China couldn't just dump out something that looked like it and say, see? Good enough looks the same.
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No, you're right. 75% of GM's engineers are from elsewhere, mostly Japan. They said they can't find enough American engineers. So China has an even bigger issue than we do.
Oh, goodness, China has a completely different economy than the Western world. And now that they are the industrial capital, they are playing catch up as quickly as possible. When you don't have enough engineers and other professionals, reverse engineering other products in the fastest way to catch up. Like Japan in the 60s and 70s, they will get there. Trust me, in 1975 everyone laughed at the idea of a Japanese car. Very few were laughing a decade later.
Some here act like they are intellectually inferior or something
One of my current favorite attys is the UD Aga-t7. Build quality
My favorite mod is the Yihi sx mini. And OMG, a one year warranty!
Yep, heard that one was a real stinker...
What I really mean is that it's at the top of my list.
Collectors create their own culture, and with it, create their own pricing. Those who aren't collectors don't understand the rationale behind collector culture. People who collect things do. To a non collector, a postage stamp is just a piece of paper, with a picture on one side, glue on the other. To a collector, that piece of paper might be worth tens of thousands of dollars. To a mod collector, it doesn't matter what the piece of metal is worth, or how long it took to make it. To them, it's a collectible. True collectors don't even worry much about whether or not they can turn a profit when and if they sell. They simply enjoy their pieces for what they are.
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Yep, heard that one was a real stinker...
What I really mean is that it's at the top of my list.
You heard it wrong.
Yep, heard that one was a real stinker...
What I really mean is that it's at the top of my list.
Yeah, I'm confused on that one. Even Busardo likes it, and he's not always kind to Chinese devices.
I have a machine shop, And yes I have cnc machines. There is no way I can compete with the Chinese. Sometimes I can't buy the material to make something for the same price as the Chinese sell the finished product for. I have noticed a lot of the Chinese products are plated brass. I wonder if they use medical grade brass like we would have to here. Most brass contains lead, so when the plating wears off you are putting lead in your system. Just my opinion.
@Bad Ninja: One down, three to go. And you're on page one
Don't get me wrong. I have no beef with you! This is just friendly fun-poking. Hope you find it too ridiculous to take offense.
On a more serious note: People need to read up on Shenzen and other SEZ's before they measure the price of products made there against those made elsewhere. It's capitalism "perfected". Or an economic weapon of mass destruction, if you will. That being said - I generally laugh at labels like "artisan" and "botique". Reminds me of this tale about an emperor and a new set of clothes. On the other hand - I rather pay more for quality than quantity. Which is not really a vaping stance, but a general how-to-spend-my-money stance. I hope and wish that craftsmanship gets a resurrection. I'm tired of buying garbage-to-be.
Don't get me wrong. I have no beef with you! This is just friendly fun-poking. Hope you find it too ridiculous to take offense.
On a more serious note: People need to read up on Shenzen and other SEZ's before they measure the price of products made there against those made elsewhere. It's capitalism "perfected". Or an economic weapon of mass destruction, if you will. That being said - I generally laugh at labels like "artisan" and "botique". Reminds me of this tale about an emperor and a new set of clothes. On the other hand - I rather pay more for quality than quantity. Which is not really a vaping stance, but a general how-to-spend-my-money stance. I hope and wish that craftsmanship gets a resurrection. I'm tired of buying garbage-to-be.
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I've never worked with cnc machines, but I have experience with lathe and milling machines. I can say it could take a two or three days for me to make a clone. Plus couple days to spend on the web finding proper tubing and plate material. It could be good for hobbyist, but awful for manufacturer. So no, I also will not compete with Chinese. But if I had a great idea (like REO or subtank) and cnc machine shop, and mass manufacture... Why not?
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