Children in a vape cafe

[Amraann]

I'm not sure what kind of bars you're frequenting, you mentioned 1PM so I'm talking about bars that are likely to be open at 1PM, here the most popular are of the "sports bar" type and they do serve food, lunch is a big piece of their revenue.

I do not frequent bars. A sports bar is a restaurant that shows sports usually on their TV's. Not much different than an Applebees.

I am speaking strictly about Bars in my statements. Bars in Florida can open at 10 am. Not a place that serves food just a bar.

 

[caramel]

Wow, that was uncalled for.[...]

.... but expected. This was an "appeal to emotion" ("think of the children") thread. After all the fallacies are debunked, the opponents have nothing left but to call you a heartless monster.

Guess that since we've reached that point there's nothing much to add here.

 

[philoshop]

I'm not sure where this discussion is going, but any attempts to legislate either intelligence or morality will end very badly. Always has.

 

[AndriaD]

alien Traveler" data-source="post: 15484446" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

What if it is not self-righteous? Do you think we should not tell right things to children even if we are weaklings who could not adhere to right things? Even on forum of weaklings as this one, where people too weak to quit cold turkey (me included) try to justify their weakness? Let’s at least tell right things.

It is NOT "weakness" to be unable to "cold turkey" from cigarettes. I cold-turkeyed from booze, and white powders... piece of cake compared to smoking, both of them.

Get it straight: ADDICTION DOES NOT EQUAL WEAKNESS.

Andria

 

[Rule62]

Bottom line: I'm just an old curmudgeon. I don't like being around little kids (except for my grandkids, of course, who are the most wonderful, well behaved children). Otherwise, I don't like being around them, whether in WalMart, the grocery, restaurants, or vape shops. Now, get off my lawn, and stay off!


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[AndriaD]

Bottom line: I'm just an old curmudgeon. I don't like being around little kids (except for my grandkids, of course, who are the most wonderful, well behaved children). Otherwise, I don't like being around them, whether in WalMart, the grocery, restaurants, or vape shops. Now, get off my lawn, and stay off!

I never liked kids, till I had one. Now, they seem to always find me, as being the only one around who'll talk to them like they're actual human beings. Kids don't get nearly enough of that. But the ones who lack respect for anyone or anything because they've never been taught it, those I have no use for at all.

Andria

 

[BigEgo]

I agree with OP. It's no place for a young child.

While I think 2nd hand vaping is safer than 2nd hand smoke, it all depends on the quantity. If you've seen those vape meets in the large hotels, you will see nothing but clouds of vapor everywhere, hanging around near the ceiling. I can imagine a vape lounge is much the same way, just on a smaller scale.

I grew up with asthma. My parents knew not to smoke in the house, but sometimes they would sneak a few. Every time I had an asthma attack. I am not saying 2nd hand vapor is as harsh, but it's not unfathomable that it could have a similar effect, especially on children (when asthma is usually at its worst). Asthmatics are very sensitive to anything in the air, even if it appears benign to others.

 

[AndriaD]

I agree with OP. It's no place for a young child.

While I think 2nd hand vaping is safer than 2nd hand smoke, it all depends on the quantity. If you've seen those vape meets in the large hotels, you will see nothing but clouds of vapor everywhere, hanging around near the ceiling. I can imagine a vape lounge is much the same way, just on a smaller scale.

I grew up with asthma. My parents knew not to smoke in the house, but sometimes they would sneak a few. Every time I had an asthma attack. I am not saying 2nd hand vapor is as harsh, but it's not unfathomable that it could have a similar effect, especially on children (when asthma is usually at its worst). Asthmatics are very sensitive to anything in the air, even if it appears benign to others.

Very true. Pine-sol makes me feel like my airways are bleeding from my nostrils down to my bronchioles, it burns so badly. Some perfume affects me that way too, and I can't even be in the same BUILDING as ammonia fumes. Oddly, bleach doesn't bother me at all.

And in vapor, it's really the flavors that have the greatest potential to endanger both vapers and bystanders -- some of them are organically-derived, and anything organic can be an allergen... as well as a few things that aren't organic -- is gypsum organic? I can never decide if it is or not, but I'm radically allergic to it, in the rash/hives fashion.

Andria

 

[shuggibear]

.... but expected. This was an "appeal to emotion" ("think of the children") thread. After all the fallacies are debunked, the opponents have nothing left but to call you a heartless monster.

Guess that since we've reached that point there's nothing much to add here.

Good point, I guess it just comes down to raise your child and I'll raise mine mentality. There's always going to be someone who disagrees with everyone else's parenting methods.
On an unrelated note to vaping in general, have any other parents here had someone who doesn't have children tell them that they are parenting wrong? It hasn't happened to me, but I've witnessed it happen to a friend. It's probably the most insulting thing I've ever seen.

 

[ENAUD]

I'd rather see them in the vape shop than left in a car with the windows cracked, especially in the summertime. I really don't care what other people do with there kids, they as the parents, should be the ones who decide what they are exposed to and how they are raised.

 

[beckdg]

WOW!

Don't like what I do with MY kids?

Confront me. Go on. Show me you have a set...

Be forwarned. Verbal communication will only last one sentence.

Just. WOW!

Tapatyped

 

[beckdg]

is gypsum organic?

It's never been alive being it's minerals. Though it is naturally occurring and mined from the earth.

Calcium sulphate...

I believe it's what forms the crystals of the lechuguilla cave in carlsbad, new mexico after exposure to sulfuric acid.

Tapatyped

 

[AndriaD]

It's never been alive being it's minerals. Though it is naturally occurring and mined from the earth.

Calcium sulphate...

I believe it's what forms the crystals of the lechuguilla cave in carlsbad, new mexico after exposure to sulfuric acid.

Tapatyped

Well when I learned that modern "chalk" is really just gypsum, it explained a great deal to me about why I never could do the eraser banging that the teachers liked to give as "detention" in grammar school. When I was about 10 or so, in "Art" we were fooling with Plaster of Paris, very cool stuff to kids -- and it broke me out in a LIVID itching red rash, everywhere it touched, so basically my entire forearms. Thankfully I've never needed a cast for anything, because I could never endure a plaster cast.

But real chalk doesn't bother me at all -- I used to use it on the ceramic-topped stove at the last house we rented, to clean up the burnt-on grease, and now I use what I have left in that bottle to clean the scorch marks off my stainless cookware -- doesn't give me any issues.

Andria

 

[caramel]

[...]have any other parents here had someone who doesn't have children tell them that they are parenting wrong? .

Not really but it appears there's an infinite supply of never-smokers lecturing smokers on the best methods to quit.

 

[beckdg]

Well when I learned that modern "chalk" is really just gypsum, it explained a great deal to me about why I never could do the eraser banging that the teachers liked to give as "detention" in grammar school. When I was about 10 or so, in "Art" we were fooling with Plaster of Paris, very cool stuff to kids -- and it broke me out in a LIVID itching red rash, everywhere it touched, so basically my entire forearms. Thankfully I've never needed a cast for anything, because I could never endure a plaster cast.

But real chalk doesn't bother me at all -- I used to use it on the ceramic-topped stove at the last house we rented, to clean up the burnt-on grease, and now I use what I have left in that bottle to clean the scorch marks off my stainless cookware -- doesn't give me any issues.

Andria

Sorry to hear. Gypsum is everywhere. Must be tough at times.

Tapatyped

 

[Hannypoo]

Meh... I'd be more concerned about exposure to what might be in the flavoring, rather than the nicotine. Nicotine can actually have health benefits. I get much more worried seeing parents feed their kids foods with synthetic dyes and flavorings. Oh, well. Somehow we all survived our childhoods. I'm pretty sure the kid in the vape shop will make it out alive.

 

[Hitmetwice]

Whew, read it all,(except the last 2 pages) not a lot to add but will attempt to, as Alien Traveller put so well "tell right things".

What i think I've learned here.(and from experience)

1. Children must always suffer abuse and pain, usually to the extreme by their parent(s) and THEN
the parent(s) must be caught or been found responsible for this "damage" before society
(childrens aid(in Canada)) steps in and removes/protects the child and then the parent "might" be prosecuted for the crimes against their own child. This usually requires broken bones, bruises, burns, malnutrition etc.

Where does "society" draw the line that must not be crossed? 1 bruise? 2 burns? 3 broken limbs?
A koolaid jammer with a peanut butter sandwich and
a couple cookies in their lunch bag(sugar/sugar/more sugar)?

Point is, even if a parent always does have the best interest of their child in mind it may fall out of their capability, means or psychological make-up to make THE best choices for their kids.
(often to the childs detriment).

2. Society doesn't want to "see the children hurt" but most often do absolutely nothing until after they are in-fact hurt/damaged. Since parents aren't tested as to their fitness for being parents, society feels it's their "duty" to attempt to protect these children with laws, a preemptive strike so to speak.
Not one of these laws really help kids that are unlucky enough to have insufficient parents.
(most of us are to an extent BTW)
But society must "appear" at least, to be doing "something" to help protect the innocent ones.
It's the "civilized" thing to do! Even though it's not effective.

3. Some of us, parent or not, will almost always put our own needs/wants/desires/feelings and
Rights and Freedoms before and above those of others. Even when it is to the detriment of the "others". The "children" will most often be the ones that suffer the most because pooh rolls downhill and they have absolutely no say even though the parent might be incompetent at times.

"Natural selection" speaks to the animal world, not to those of us with a human consciousness we are more "civilized" than that aren't we? Should we not hold ourselves to a higher standard?
Higher than a bunch of animals in a 3 ring circus?

Do we need more rules and laws? No.
They are not effective in the "circus" atmosphere. Whips and chains(weapons) are.
Do we all need to have a more "social consciousness"? I think we all do.
Is there anything you or I can do to raise the social consciousness of others...
no, only our own.

Do I like it when I see preteens or toddlers in an environment that is uncomfortable for both me and them? No.
Do they have the power to leave? No? Then I will, and I'll let the management know why. Simple really.
Just my little rant, sorry if you've been offended.(I'm Canadian)

Generally speaking of course. Cheers.

 

[AndriaD]

Sorry to hear. Gypsum is everywhere. Must be tough at times.

Tapatyped

Regular drywall, I can handle, because the gypsum is trapped inside the paperboard -- as long as no one does any drywall cutting, anyway. But I've looked on my plaster-daubed ceilings with great suspicion for many years. Maybe someday we can build our own home, and have wooden ceilings.

Andria

 

[jseah]

2. Society doesn't want to "see the children hurt" but most often do absolutely nothing until after they are in-fact hurt/damaged. Since parents aren't tested as to their fitness for being parents, society feels it's their "duty" to attempt to protect these children with laws, a preemptive strike so to speak.
Not one of these laws really help kids that are unlucky enough to have insufficient parents.
(most of us are to an extent BTW)
But society must "appear" at least, to be doing "something" to help protect the innocent ones.
It's the "civilized" thing to do! Even though it's not effective.

It is this that they use as justification to ban/restrict e-cigs. NYC is one of the worst places in the world where the government feels that it is their responsibility to protect us from ourselves.

1. In a position statement to the FDA, they advocate a prohibition on including menthol in cigarettes because a study by Harvard claims that 44 percent of smokers aged 12-17 preferred menthol cigarettes, and also cited a more recent study that showed that this percentage has increased to 56.7 percent.

2. In a position statement to the FDA, they advocate a ban on the sale of electronic cigarettes to minors by claiming that because 90 percent of smokers start before the age of eighteen, allowing nicotine addiction to start at such an early age is unacceptable. Isn't there already a ban on the sale of tobacco to individuals under 18? So OBVIOUSLY banning access to electronic cigarettes will prevent children from vaping since the ban has worked so well with analogs.

3. In the same position statement in 2., they state that electronic cigarettes are more dangerous than analogs because the traditional analog has only 1 mg of nicotine while an e-cig may contain upwards of 16 mg of nicotine, ignoring the facts such as nicotine absorption rates and the "life" of an electronic cigarette as compared to analogs (if a disposable e-cig only lasted as long as one analog, who the hell would buy them).

 

[Oberon75]

It is this that they use as justification to ban/restrict e-cigs. NYC is one of the worst places in the world where the government feels that it is their responsibility to protect us from ourselves.

1. In a position statement to the FDA, they advocate a prohibition on including menthol in cigarettes because a study by Harvard claims that 44 percent of smokers aged 12-17 preferred menthol cigarettes, and also cited a more recent study that showed that this percentage has increased to 56.7 percent.

2. In a position statement to the FDA, they advocate a ban on the sale of electronic cigarettes to minors by claiming that because 90 percent of smokers start before the age of eighteen, allowing nicotine addiction to start at such an early age is unacceptable. Isn't there already a ban on the sale of tobacco to individuals under 18? So OBVIOUSLY banning access to electronic cigarettes will prevent children from vaping since the ban has worked so well with analogs.

3. In the same position statement in 2., they state that electronic cigarettes are more dangerous than analogs because the traditional analog has only 1 mg of nicotine while an e-cig may contain upwards of 16 mg of nicotine, ignoring the facts such as nicotine absorption rates and the "life" of an electronic cigarette as compared to analogs (if a disposable e-cig only lasted as long as one analog, who the hell would buy them).

It's not that NYC wants to protect you. They just want that $1.60 city tax per pack of cigarettes. They cannot add such a tax to vaping until they demonize.

Sent from my HTC One M8 Harman/Kardon edition