Did you make it/them yourself? If so your good to go, otherwise if you purchased it/them you are the consumer, someone profited from your purchase.
Maurice
Clones... Why?
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Did you make it/them yourself? If so your good to go, otherwise if you purchased it/them you are the consumer, someone profited from your purchase.
Maurice
You say this as if I'm the only person in the world who feels this way. That's a very narrow way of responding.
It would seem more well thought out to say "I'm good no matter what anyone feels about it".
I'm not trying to put those words in your mouth by the way, but if I understand you correctly that's what you are saying.
Your statement of uncaring alone seems less than callous when directed at just me, but you can't possibly be oblivious to the thousands upon thousands of others who basically do the right thing, just because its right, and not for any personal gain but for the sake of being right in and of itself.
Maurice
Aside from the etchings/engravings, what "ip" is being stolen? Mechanically they're no different from flashlights.
I would still buy the exact same mech I'm using now for the exact same price I paid even if it had no markings on it at all. Can you say the same? Are you really "supporting the artists" or just buying a showpiece to show off with, like buying an expensive watch?
Or let me put this another way...
Is Atmomixani paying Anne Stokes for the right to use her Death Angle image on the side of their Nemesis? If not, then why shouldn't a clone maker use the same image? Both are stealing the IP, right?
Put your money where your mouth is or shut up http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/apv-discussion/553747-clones-why-16.html#post12925967
There was a time when Chinese vape device imports, were not a whole lot more than shine with bells and whistles by the boatloads. I mean after the cigalikes, and the ego's and all.
I guess you'd have to look at the history of vape devices to see when larger batt mods started to show up, but I do remember when the Provari first came out in late '09.
It was awesome because it was... well, a Provari; and it was made here in the USA, and priced to make a decent profit for the Provape folks.
Straight up wireless mechanical devices with good conductivity, and low resistance (sub ohms) vaping shortly came next.
Mod makers designed and produced a mech they were proud of; from scratch; seems most of those were from Europe or Greece, then other countries made original mods.
A year or two ago I could buy high end device/s... more than i needed just to try them for myself (if i got a jump on sales day) knowing that I could sell off a high end device in the ECF classifieds with no problems for close to what i paid if not the same investment, or even more.
I never "flipped" stuff; just wanted to move stuff out to make room for more.
Most of the first clones (mass produced and with cheap labor) were junk because it wasn't until 1:1 copying came along that they became truly functional, and even so today lots of them are not as good as the originals imo. Obviously some are.
This thread really captures the clone debate from all the angles... wow.
I've spent well over a grand on my current collection; most of which I don't use much any more because I just use the ones I like the most, and can't resell without a big loss.
If I saw a new mech that was substantially better than what i already have, I'd probably buy it because I can, but knowing that my favorites can be gotten for a fraction of what i paid for them in a 1:1 clone just emphasizes the state of things today.
Will clones stifle innovation? I think so... no innovator would get into the game if they needed to make a profit unless they figured they'd get it outsourced to Asia for mass production. I'm thinking that will come, or already has been happening (?).
I do figure that small outfits have to charge what they do, but clones must really put a damper on things.
I admire folks who refuse to buy a clone on principle; they are rare.
Do I buy clones? Yep; I've bought them just to see for myself as well.
My favorite authentic mech to date, aside from the BCV XXIX, is the naval brass Nemesis - I've bought at least a half doz real Neme's of different styles, and have kept 2 NB Neme's... and have 4 brass clones... they are just as good.
OT: Does anyone know why Atmo doesn't make NB Neme's anymore? they are the best ones ever ( i don't care for the alumi-neme ). He's put out dozens of batch runs but only a couple NB runs which were being flipped for almost double the retail just before the Neme clones came out.
I guess you'd have to look at the history of vape devices to see when larger batt mods started to show up, but I do remember when the Provari first came out in late '09.
It was awesome because it was... well, a Provari; and it was made here in the USA, and priced to make a decent profit for the Provape folks.
Straight up wireless mechanical devices with good conductivity, and low resistance (sub ohms) vaping shortly came next.
Mod makers designed and produced a mech they were proud of; from scratch; seems most of those were from Europe or Greece, then other countries made original mods.
A year or two ago I could buy high end device/s... more than i needed just to try them for myself (if i got a jump on sales day) knowing that I could sell off a high end device in the ECF classifieds with no problems for close to what i paid if not the same investment, or even more.
I never "flipped" stuff; just wanted to move stuff out to make room for more.
Most of the first clones (mass produced and with cheap labor) were junk because it wasn't until 1:1 copying came along that they became truly functional, and even so today lots of them are not as good as the originals imo. Obviously some are.
This thread really captures the clone debate from all the angles... wow.
I've spent well over a grand on my current collection; most of which I don't use much any more because I just use the ones I like the most, and can't resell without a big loss.
If I saw a new mech that was substantially better than what i already have, I'd probably buy it because I can, but knowing that my favorites can be gotten for a fraction of what i paid for them in a 1:1 clone just emphasizes the state of things today.
Will clones stifle innovation? I think so... no innovator would get into the game if they needed to make a profit unless they figured they'd get it outsourced to Asia for mass production. I'm thinking that will come, or already has been happening (?).
I do figure that small outfits have to charge what they do, but clones must really put a damper on things.
I admire folks who refuse to buy a clone on principle; they are rare.
Do I buy clones? Yep; I've bought them just to see for myself as well.
My favorite authentic mech to date, aside from the BCV XXIX, is the naval brass Nemesis - I've bought at least a half doz real Neme's of different styles, and have kept 2 NB Neme's... and have 4 brass clones... they are just as good.
OT: Does anyone know why Atmo doesn't make NB Neme's anymore? they are the best ones ever ( i don't care for the alumi-neme ). He's put out dozens of batch runs but only a couple NB runs which were being flipped for almost double the retail just before the Neme clones came out.
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Brass is about ten times as expensive as stainless steel is the one reason I would think of first, not sure if that's the reason though.
Maurice
Maurice
As long as we are all here vaping, who cares if it is real or not. My thought process is buy what you can or are willing to afford. If you cannot justify buying a 200 dollar metal tube, but are happy getting the same thing for 20-30 bucks then go for it.
If it keeps you off cigarettes, you are doing something right regardless if someone looks down at you for using a clone.
If it keeps you off cigarettes, you are doing something right regardless if someone looks down at you for using a clone.
The clone debate has more fury than a religious debate. Holy cow! Keep arguing your points ladies and gents.
At first I was against clones... I've never owned a clone but from what I read I came to believe the quality and craftsmanship was sub-par all around and I'm the kind of guy who likes his quality. But then I've read many posts stating that there are clones out there that can't be told apart from the authentic one.. So if an authentic mod with limited stock and availability costs $100-300 and is the exact same quality as a $20-40 clone who am I to say no? If the makers of the originals wanted to keep the market to themselves they wouldn't charge so much for a piece of metal with springs or magnets, manufactured them in abundance, and put a patent or equal legal protection. My views have changed since I first posted this thread.
At first I was against clones... I've never owned a clone but from what I read I came to believe the quality and craftsmanship was sub-par all around and I'm the kind of guy who likes his quality. But then I've read many posts stating that there are clones out there that can't be told apart from the authentic one.. So if an authentic mod with limited stock and availability costs $100-300 and is the exact same quality as a $20-40 clone who am I to say no? If the makers of the originals wanted to keep the market to themselves they wouldn't charge so much for a piece of metal with springs or magnets, manufactured them in abundance, and put a patent or equal legal protection. My views have changed since I first posted this thread.
I know that guitar and uke makers, big names like Martin, Taylor, etc etc will take their blueprints (and bags of $$$ since they have it; successful) to Asia, research and pick a factory and go at it... selling them as a second line with a model name indicating such, and selling for less than the ones made here.
That may be one of the only alternatives that homegrown innovators have ... I don't buy the "don't make them is such small batches" if you don't want us to buy clones btw... I get email notices from at least a doz vendors all the time... you can get anything you want from anywhere if you got the dime.
fwiw, ok, a Caravela is out there and pretty much unobtainable at retail but for the most part anything else.
That may be one of the only alternatives that homegrown innovators have ... I don't buy the "don't make them is such small batches" if you don't want us to buy clones btw... I get email notices from at least a doz vendors all the time... you can get anything you want from anywhere if you got the dime.
fwiw, ok, a Caravela is out there and pretty much unobtainable at retail but for the most part anything else.
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Just a note about patents: They increase costs for consumers and stifle innovation. You will soon see when the big tobacco companies keep buying patents and will sue all the other ecig manufacturers out of business.
And there you have it folks. As soon as the DIRTEE MONEE is involved, someone has done something wrong.
So now I'm really confused. Is it ok to use my copper Nemi clone when it get's here? The original was never made in copper. But the clone has the Atmomixani logo on it. But they pilfered it from / were inspired by somebody elses artwork to make the logo. Soooooooo
To heck with it, I'm gonna use it.
To heck with it, I'm gonna use it.
No issues unless Atmomixanu plastered tht image on a neme instead of etching just the outline.*whistles*Aside from the etchings/engravings, what "ip" is being stolen? Mechanically they're no different from flashlights. I would still buy the exact same mech I'm using now for the exact same price I paid even if it had no markings on it at all. Can you say the same? Are you really "supporting the artists" or just buying a showpiece to show off with, like buying an expensive watch? Or let me put this another way...Is Atmomixani paying Anne Stokes for the right to use her Death Angle image on the side of their Nemesis? If not, then why shouldn't a clone maker use the same image? Both are stealing the IP, right?
So now I'm really confused. Is it ok to use my copper Nemi clone when it get's here? The original was never made in copper. But the clone has the Atmomixani logo on it. But they pilfered it from / were inspired by somebody elses artwork to make the logo. Soooooooo
To heck with it, I'm gonna use it.
If it sends a current to your atomizer, then I think its ok to use it. LOL
So now I'm really confused. Is it ok to use my copper Nemi clone when it get's here? The original was never made in copper. But the clone has the Atmomixani logo on it. But they pilfered it from / were inspired by somebody elses artwork to make the logo. Soooooooo
To heck with it, I'm gonna use it.
Sounds like yours isn't a clone. Sounds more like it was inspired by.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
yeah? haha I've seen a copper no logo clone... The reason i love Nemesis is the top cap and bottom switch design; along with the conductivity, there is no better bottom button switch design that not only provides a consistent switch but it also snugs the batt up to the atomizer nice and comfy.So now I'm really confused. Is it ok to use my copper Nemi clone when it get's here? The original was never made in copper. But the clone has the Atmomixani logo on it. But they pilfered it from / were inspired by somebody elses artwork to make the logo. Soooooooo
To heck with it, I'm gonna use it.
I hear the Stingray has a nice "evolved Neme switch button" but so far there's been as many reviews of glitches... until there is a better switch available for a mech, I'm sticking with the Nemesis... got a copper on order... its a copper Nemesis clone without logo's
Is a Smok Magneto authentic? Because I'm buying that and an hcigar kayfun tomorrow. Then I'm gonna come home, drink some Shiner and shoot some pool with a buddy. I'm okay with it.
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