Clones... Why?

[roflwaffles]

Alot of cloners make different materialed revisions of the mods that they clone ie. Copper Hades, Copper 4nine, Copper Panzers, etc.

If you have a good relationship with a rep at the clone company, you can request your own revisions and engravings as long as you can supply the demand for it.

 

[roflwaffles]

Is a smok Magneto authentic? Because I'm buying that and an hcigar kayfun tomorrow. Then I'm gonna come home, drink some Shiner and shoot some pool with a buddy. I'm okay with it.

It is, but it's basically an Nzonic clone from what I hear.

I'd get it if it had a Magneto symbol instead of a Spider-Man one.

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

As for the copper clone, it's still a clone. Same design, same purpose, same logo (this may not be the case with all of them), in effect it's the same device using a different material.

I think I asked earlier but now that the pissing contest has all but burned itself out I'll try again.

How close does something need to be to be a clone/counterfeit?

Is shrinking or enlarging (say to fit smaller or larger battery types) enough?

Maurice

 

[blueGrassTubb]

The clone debate has more fury than a religious debate. Holy cow! Keep arguing your points ladies and gents.

At first I was against clones... I've never owned a clone but from what I read I came to believe the quality and craftsmanship was sub-par all around and I'm the kind of guy who likes his quality. But then I've read many posts stating that there are clones out there that can't be told apart from the authentic one.. So if an authentic mod with limited stock and availability costs $100-300 and is the exact same quality as a $20-40 clone who am I to say no? If the makers of the originals wanted to keep the market to themselves they wouldn't charge so much for a piece of metal with springs or magnets, manufactured them in abundance, and put a patent or equal legal protection. My views have changed since I first posted this thread.

There are many quality clones out there. Many of them perform every bit as well as their predecessor. A small handful perform even better. Many of them are garbage. It's all about doing the research on individual clones.

Whether you buy them or not is up to each individual. I buy both clones and originals. If you don't like clones, don't buy them. It's very simple, and a fact that some people just don't get.

 

[neutrontech]

How close does something need to be to be a clone/counterfeit?

Is shrinking or enlarging (say to fit smaller or larger battery types) enough?

Maurice

Counterfeits would be exactly the same and try to trick buyers into believing they are real. Which I do feel is wrong.

A clone is something relatively similar or even closer, but the buyer is aware its a copy. I'd say close enough that if you put one with an original in a dark room, you'd have a hard time telling them apart.

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[ukeman]

I don't agree that a good mech is just "a piece of metal with springs or magnets". I know thats said in the context of why do they charge $200 for it. But maybe clones have cheapened our appreciation of what it took to tool up a good design and decide to market it at home and make a decent profit on it.
No, now you have to have it mass produced in a country where labor is dirt cheap. Its the Walmart mentality.
I just bought a Daisy 880 BB rifle at WM, and often get my stuff there too.
AND I would never not want someone with less money not to have a good vape experience courtesy of FT, but I don't celebrate it.
Its just the way it is.

 

[blueGrassTubb]

How close does something need to be to be a clone/counterfeit?

Is shrinking or enlarging (say to fit smaller or larger battery types) enough?

Maurice

I'd say that a counterfeit is one that tries to copy the original exactly with the intent to trick buyers in to thinking it's an original. A clone has no such foul intentions behind, even if the copy is the same as the original. The markets has obviously responded well to the latter. There are clones all over the place, yet counterfeits seem rare.

As long as the buyer is aware that he is buying a reproduction there are no problems.

Just remember: it's all about not smoking cigarettes. If a clone is what helps makes that happen, I couldn't care less. They are well priced (some as low as an ego battery) and work well (enough) in most cases. If someone can lengthen their life or make their quality of life better because a clone helped them stay away from analogs, clones should be celebrated, rather than worrying that the original designer isn't "getting his due." By my calculus, clones are a huge win because they help save lives. The originator (who very likely sold all of his stock and made whatever money he sought to make from them) isn't even a variable.

And just to be clear, I buy both clones and originals.

Clones:
Hcigar 69
Hcigar Brass Stingray
Hcigar Caravela
Infinite Tree of Life
Infinite Black Copper Stingray
Hana Modz DNA30 (no logo)

Originals:
Sigelei 20W
Atmizoo Roller
GP Customs Akuma
EPM VW-18490 (on order)

 

[Johnny Phatsaqs]

Is the Smok Magneto considered a clone? I bought one yesterday, and absolutely adore this thing. Fantastic firing button

 

[Ed_C]

Some people say it's a clone of a Nzonic, but it really doesn't look much like it at all and I would say it's NOT a clone, just a somewhat similar design.

 

[Johnny Phatsaqs]

Some people say it's a clone of a Nzonic, but it really doesn't look much like it at all and I would say it's NOT a clone, just a somewhat similar design.

That had an Nzonic there, I don't see it as a clone of that at all. Similar, yeah...definitely not a clone.

 

[Cearamm]

Actually, to whomever posted a out the angel of death And Atmomixani copyright infringment, Atmomixani DOES have a licenscing deal with that artist for use of the logo. They cannot thus copyrigt it themselves, butthe artist could sue chInese counterfeiters. They also have copyright/trademark protection pending on the Atmomixani steam train logo and atmomixani cursive text used on their dvices. So once they have protection approval, they plan to to after any vendors selling counterfeits. They cant really do much against manfacturers, but the vendors, hell yes. With all the capital theyve earned wth their products, they sure as hell can afford a lawer and sue the crap out of em! So yes some people do protect their IP and will pursue rectification


The details on this matter can be sifted out of the thread "New projects by Atmomixani..."

 

[Chelonian]

Actually, to whomever posted a out the angel of death And Atmomixani copyright infringment, Atmomixani DOES have a licenscing deal with that artist for use of the logo. They cannot thus copyrigt it themselves, butthe artist could sue chInese counterfeiters. They also have copyright/trademark protection pending on the Atmomixani steam train logo and atmomixani cursive text used on their dvices. So once they have protection approval, they plan to to after any vendors selling counterfeits. They cant really do much against manfacturers, but the vendors, hell yes. With all the capital theyve earned wth their products, they sure as hell can afford a lawer and sue the crap out of em! So yes some people do protect their IP and will pursue rectification


The details on this matter can be sifted out of the thread "New projects by Atmomixani..."

Should this happen, it would make me laugh and laugh and laugh...

Perhaps, if it happens, the defendants could use some of the reasons used on this and other threads to win their defense.

I am sure that this will work:
"I did it openly, so it's not a problem your Honor",
or this one:
"They are charging too much! It's just a tube!"
or maybe try:
"intellectual property is a construct of modern government. Neolithic Man would have found this absurd".

Anyways, lets see how it goes

 

[ukeman]

Actually, to whomever posted a out the angel of death And Atmomixani copyright infringment, Atmomixani DOES have a licenscing deal with that artist for use of the logo. They cannot thus copyrigt it themselves, butthe artist could sue chInese counterfeiters. They also have copyright/trademark protection pending on the Atmomixani steam train logo and atmomixani cursive text used on their dvices. So once they have protection approval, they plan to to after any vendors selling counterfeits. They cant really do much against manfacturers, but the vendors, hell yes. With all the capital theyve earned wth their products, they sure as hell can afford a lawer and sue the crap out of em! So yes some people do protect their IP and will pursue rectification
The details on this matter can be sifted out of the thread "New projects by Atmomixani..."

thanks for bringing that info in per the Atmo thread...

for me I don't care about the logo or art any more than I care about the shininess of the non cigalike Chinese mods that started coming out after the ego types... Sig # ie. Back then and now what really draws me to buying a clone for less is if it functions like the design factors of the Nemesis.
Mainly the switch and batt contacts design.. imo that is the difference that makes the Neme the mech I use. I don't like fiddling with secondary pos pin adjustments or bottom contact adjustments. With the Neme design you just fit the atomizer and then thread the bottom cap... done.
So if someone clones a Nemesis and leaves the logos, and serials off, its still a Nemesis clone.

 

[Bad Ninja]

If legit Modder spent more money manufacturing inventory and facilitating a smooth business transaction there wouldn't be a market for clones.

But hey, lawyers gotta eat to right?


I laugh at this drama.
It will never see a courtroom.

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

By the time it goes to court it may sound a bit like this;

"They're America's dumbest criminals," said Lt. Ricky Ramie, head of the Bay County Sheriff's Office narcotics task force. He was referring to a couple who called the police to report that their stash of pot had been stolen.

Police said they were notified by 18-year-old John Douglas Sheetz and 17-year-old Misty Ann Holmes Thursday that their quarter-pound stash of ......... was stolen from their apartment. They said they needed it back, because they planned to sell it.

When deputies arrived, the couple allowed them to search the apartment. They found several ......... stems and drug paraphernalia. They then arrested Sheetz and Holmes and charged them with possession of ......... with intent to deliver and possession of drug paraphernalia.

The couple were being held in the Bay County Jail with bail set at $17,500

Well yes judge my illegal mod design was stolen by the Chinese, help me out here will you.

Assuming we live to see the vapocalypse.

Maurice

 

[El Heisenberg]

Just pulled the trigger on a EHpro Kayfun Lite Plus for $34, cant wait to get it tomorrow. My next purchase will be a 3d Dripper. Then Maybe a DNA 20... actually I may wait until the dna 30 come out at FT?

 

[jrs99]

Just pulled the trigger on a EHpro Kayfun Lite Plus for $34, cant wait to get it tomorrow. My next purchase will be a 3d Dripper. Then Maybe a DNA 20... actually I may wait until the dna 30 come out at FT?

...and your point is?

 

[Cearamm]

I hope your ehpro kayfun clone insulators melt immediately! Lol jk...

I personally am completely against clones...personally!

However my coworker who has less moolah than i cant afford $99 for an authentic KFL+....so i was glad to recommend him a reputable clone alternative if he wanted one based on others' reviews. So far no one i have recommended a clone to has bought one because they would rather have the real deal and have it vape like mine does, which is real. So that person is saving till he can afford the true item.

Another friend wont buy cheap china because of me tellin him most my stuff failed within a month, or his own stuff failing.

So ill never condone clone purchasing, but i also dont care because its a persons choice. Its deeply embedded in their psyche that way, whichever way it may be. Me personally i will never support counterfeiting thieves. But thats just me.

Just yesterday another coworker came up to me with his great new toy....an M16 sentinel clone. That thing felt like cheap plastic or aluminum. It had absolutely no weight to it. He thiught he got a great deal on it for $65...so he says yea im glad i got it, it feels worth it. I just wish he could know that hes getting duped for a truly subpar product. Sad...but i played along and said hey man, whatever works for yiu is whats important.


All the while im thinking....dude you got ripped off....

Anyways storytime is over....

 

[ukeman]

this may be OT but I hate fiddling with switches and it seems to me no mech device has a foolproof button; real or clone....

that's why i stick with Neme's only... even with the magnets, they may be a tiny bit crunchy but at least they fire consistently.... and imo clone switches are always a crap shoot.... ymmv.

 

[anumber1]

You think it"s cool. Let me ask you this. Why did you buy a clone instead of an inexpensive original?

I would love to see an inexpensive original.

I have a $10 m16. Works for me. It's such a great clone that it is branded "Gand Vapor"! That is awesome!

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