Darwin...Is it really different?

[BoiseMike]

I wasn't comparing the device to a tube with a button. I was comparing it to the existing mods with regulated power and variable voltage. It's the same results with different labels.

I wasn't talking about a tube with a button either. That's why I said, "You could be dorking with the battery voltage setting ". Perhaps you tote around a multimeter to test the resistance of your atties just before you use them. I rarely check mine, even at home. And I'm not going to figure out what wattage I'll end up at on the fly. If a particular wattage is the resuilt you're looking for it seems that setting the device for that and swapping atties without a thought would be nice.

 

[Nuck]

I wasn't talking about a tube with a button either. That's why I said, "You could be dorking with the battery voltage setting ". Perhaps you tote around a multimeter to test the resistance of your atties just before you use them. I rarely check mine, even at home. And I'm not going to figure out what wattage I'll end up at on the fly. If a particular wattage is the resuilt you're looking for it seems that setting the device for that and swapping atties without a thought would be nice.

I think most people care about watts as little as they care about volts. Even as a modder, ultimately, the only thing I care about is the quality and consistency of the vape and a way to make it go hotter and cooler.

 

[muttSRT]

Thats the point. If you switch to a new atty model with a different resistance, you will have to adjust the power in both cases. Atty designs are affected by much more than power. For a 306 I vape around 9.5w. For a 510 I go up to 12w. For a 901 I go to about 7.5w.

A mod could come out and allow you to set power by adjusting temperature. In the end it would still be the exact same thing with just a different presentation to the user.

This is where you are wrong. In a standard vv device what you say is correct, you will have to adjust the voltage when you change your atty/carto. With the Darwin, the amps and the voltage are controlled independently, so if you set the device to 10 watts, and then change your atty/carto to another with different resistance, the darwin automatically adjusts itself to give the user a 10 watt vape.

In other words, one could go through their juices and find their own personal sweet spot, for each flavor. lets say:

juice #1= 7 watts
juice #2= 8 watts
juice #3= 9 watts
juice #4= 10 watts

When you want to vape say juice #3, you set the Darwin to 9 watts. Doesnt matter after that, if you use a carto or an atty a standard or a high resistance, the end result, with whatever you screw onto the darwin, will be 9 watts.

If you did the same with a vv device:

juice #1= 3.7 volts
juice #2= 4.2 volts
juice #3= 4.8 volts
juice #4= 5 volts

To get the same results each time, you would have to make sure that every atty/carto you use on the vv device is IDENTICAL in its resistance, or your vape changes.

Theres a lot more to the darwin than just saying that the user is adjusting watts vs adjusting voltage.

 

[NebulaBrot]

I do not have the technical knowledge or sophistication of IcaBoD, Nuck, Candre, Rocket and others of you but I am researching and experimenting with many mods, batts, attys, voltages, etc. I do meter my attys (all of them) and do see fluctuations (albeit small ones) even within a specific brand and model. I also notice that the same atty ohms will meter differently at the end of a week of intense use.

I am fascinated by the various newer approaches to "smart" mods and very curious to see this approach as it develops. I like the idea that the mod will be monitoring the ohms of an atty and continue to make adjustments to the various variables to maintain a constant heat level.

Will I be able to immediately know the difference between 8.1 watts and 8.3 watts? Probably not, but when I see the ohms reading on my preferred joye 302 atty start at 3.1 and change within .5 ohms in a week (and the juices vaping differently as a result of that resistance variance on the same volts), the idea of the mod automatically adjusting the power to keep my vape more consistent over the life of a given atty is an appealing idea. Just my

Hopefully the price-point will be reasonable enough to allow many of us to try this device and see for ourselves how we like this approach compared to some of the other new ones coming soon

 

[muttSRT]

I think most people care about watts as little as they care about volts. Even as a modder, ultimately, the only thing I care about is the quality and consistency of the vape and a way to make it go hotter and cooler.

Thats exactly right...and Darwin=consistency, even as a person changes their carto/atty, even as the batteries get weaker, The Darwin is constantly changing to give the user a consistent vape.

And lets just say that like you said, no one cares about watts/volts/amps etc. They just want to be able to screw on an atty and go.. well with some vv devices, to adjust the voltage, you need a screwdriver...kind of hard to adjust while driving. On some, you need to push and hold a button for 6 seconds, and then bump the button for every .1 volt you want to change...so going from say 3.7 to 6 volts a person would have to hold the button for secs, then bump the button, 23 times to go from 3.7 to 6volts. Again, thats a pain. With the Darwin, you can rotate the dial, even as you are vaping, to dial in your sweet spot in seconds.

 

[Nuck]

This is where you are wrong. In a standard vv device what you say is correct, you will have to adjust the voltage when you change your atty/carto. With the Darwin, the amps and the voltage are controlled independently, so if you set the device to 10 watts, and then change your atty/carto to another with different resistance, the darwin automatically adjusts itself to give the user a 10 watt vape.

In other words, one could go through their juices and find their own personal sweet spot, for each flavor. lets say:

juice #1= 7 watts
juice #2= 8 watts
juice #3= 9 watts
juice #4= 10 watts

When you want to vape say juice #3, you set the Darwin to 9 watts. Doesnt matter after that, if you use a carto or an atty a standard or a high resistance, the end result, with whatever you screw onto the darwin, will be 9 watts.

If you did the same with a vv device:

juice #1= 3.7 volts
juice #2= 4.2 volts
juice #3= 4.8 volts
juice #4= 5 volts

To get the same results each time, you would have to make sure that every atty/carto you use on the vv device is IDENTICAL in its resistance, or your vape changes.

Theres a lot more to the darwin than just saying that the user is adjusting watts vs adjusting voltage.

You seem to be confused as to how voltage and current interact when using a static load (atomizer). Changing the current will automatically change the voltage and changing the voltage will automatically change the current. You can control either one but you can't control them independently. Read up a bit on Ohm's Law for a better understanding.

 

[Nuck]

Thats exactly right...and Darwin=consistency, even as a person changes their carto/atty, even as the batteries get weaker, The Darwin is constantly changing to give the user a consistent vape.

And lets just say that like you said, no one cares about watts/volts/amps etc. They just want to be able to screw on an atty and go.. well with some vv devices, to adjust the voltage, you need a screwdriver...kind of hard to adjust while driving. On some, you need to push and hold a button for 6 seconds, and then bump the button for every .1 volt you want to change...so going from say 3.7 to 6 volts a person would have to hold the button for secs, then bump the button, 23 times to go from 3.7 to 6volts. Again, thats a pain. With the Darwin, you can rotate the dial, even as you are vaping, to dial in your sweet spot in seconds.

The consistency comes from regulated power. Using a different label doesn't make it any more or less consistent.

The rest of your post deals with the aesthetics of the mod and ease of use which is a separate issue and is entirely subjective.

 

[BoiseMike]

You seem to be confused as to how voltage and current interact when using a static load (atomizer). Changing the current will automatically change the voltage and changing the voltage will automatically change the current. You can control either one but you can control them independently. Read up a bit on Ohm's Law for a better understanding.

"Changing the current will automatically change the voltage..." The current is determined by the voltage divided by resistance. You change the voltage to change the current. And the load is only static momentarily. As it heats up the atomizer resistance will change. And how much liquid is on the coil, dissapating the heat will also affect that heat and thereby the resistance. So "static" is short-lived.
I can understand if you don't think this sort of metering is something you'd be interested in. But the difference between constantly metering the result and varying the input to keep it static, versus changing the input manually to adapt to ever changing variables is obvious. The results may be similar (not exact), but different people like to achieve that result differently.

 

[Nuck]

"Changing the current will automatically change the voltage..." The current is determined by the voltage divided by resistance. You change the voltage to change the current. And the load is only static momentarily. As it heats up the atomizer resistance will change. And how much liquid is on the coil, dissapating the heat will also affect that heat and thereby the resistance. So "static" is short-lived.
I can understand if you don't think this sort of metering is something you'd be interested in. But the difference between constantly metering the result and varying the input to keep it static, versus changing the input manually to adapt to ever changing variables is obvious. The results may be similar (not exact), but different people like to achieve that result differently.

The change in resistance in nichrome based on the temperatures we vape at (well under 200C) is quite small (1-2%). The resulting change in voltage is extremely small and would have no effect on the final vape.

In terms of real world use an atty is a static load.

 

[boz]

I have to agree with Nuck on this one. You can't just set your wattage to say 8 watts and then expect every atty or carto to perform exactly the same. Just like you cant set your voltage to 5v and expect every atty or carto to perform exactly the same. You have to adjust a knob on both devices in order to get the desired result. What I'd like to have is a pulsing variable voltage device to double the battery life and still maintain a good vape. To me, battery life is the biggest problem in vaping now. Now that we've got VV or VW (makes no difference as far as I'm concerned), the thing to concentrate on is gaining longer battery life and a pulsing power supply can help with that. So I think Ill pass on this one as my VV mod gives me, IMO, the same control that this would, at no doubt, a much cheaper price.

 

[AngusATAT]

So far today, I am at 15 hours of pretty heavy vaping, and still have a bit of a charge on the battery according to the display.

 

[AngusATAT]

I just thought I would toss my two cents into this whole debate.

Yes, the difference between a variable voltage mod and this one is pretty subtle to most users. For the non-technically inclined vapers, I doubt it would make a difference. But, after using this for a few days, I can tell you that I absolutely notice a difference in how it vapes compared to my VV mods. It (as already expressed) is just more consistent vaping. The drag I just took five minutes ago was exactly the same as the first one when I unplugged the Darwin from the charger. I can't say that about my Buzz or my other VV mods. It's close, but no cigar.

Yes, I am well aware of Ohm's Law and how it relates to the topic. I design electrical substations for a living. But I absolutely believe that maintaining the wattage makes a difference. It may not be a huge difference, admittedly, but it is noticeable to me.

 

[firhill]

So far today, I am at 15 hours of pretty heavy vaping, and still have a bit of a charge on the battery according to the display.

With a 5" X 1" housing, I would hope the battery lasts a lot longer than 15 hours.

 

[AngusATAT]

With a 5" X 1" housing, I would hope the battery lasts a lot longer than 15 hours.

Are you under the impression that it is entirely taken up by the battery?

I've already explained that the device holds two 900mAh LiPo cells. How much battery life do you expect to get out of them while vaping heavily all day?

Edit: Ahh, I see. It was more of a comment on the size of the unit. My misunderstanding. As I posted before, these are just beta units, and the final version will be smaller and thinner than what we have.

 

[candre23]

You can't just set your wattage to say 8 watts and then expect every atty or carto to perform exactly the same.

Actually, you can. That's the whole point.

The reason you use a microprocessor to control wattage is because wattage is the golden benchmark of performance for an atomizer. Voltage is arbitrary - 5V on a 2.5ohm atty and 5V on a 3.5ohm atty are completely different. But 8W on a 2.5ohm atty and 8W on a 3.5ohm atty are exactly the same. Once you figure out what wattage you prefer, you never have to mess with it again. Batteries get weak? It vapes the same. Change attys? It vapes the same. Atty gets weak? It vapes the same. Aside from physical differences in atty design (harder or lighter draw, different wicking characteristics), all attys will provide the same performance at a set wattage.

Any AV mod is capable of this, but only with constant manual tweaking based on changing variables. The Darwin will do it all automatically, in real time, with no measurement or adjustment needed from the user.

 

[boz]

- 5V on a 2.5ohm atty and 5V on a 3.5ohm atty are completely different. But 8W on a 2.5ohm atty and 8W on a 3.5ohm atty are exactly the same.

It's not completely different, 5V is the same on both atties as well. Its 5V. You have to adjust your voltage to compensate for the atty. If you don't need to adjust your wattage to compensate then what's the point of it being variable, when does the variability become useful?

Edit: I'll answer my own question. You would probably adjust the wattage to get a cooler or hotter draw. Am I correct? If so, then it is exactly the same as adjusting the voltage. Also, you say that 8W is 8W no matter what ohm the load is, but does that mean that a 2ohm atty and a 4.5ohm atty are going to deliver the same vapor at 8W? If so, then this takes away some flexibility of having different ohmage atties. If not, then what's (pardon the pun) the point of having constant wattage?

 

[5cardstud]

I just thought I would toss my two cents into this whole debate.

Yes, the difference between a variable voltage mod and this one is pretty subtle to most users. For the non-technically inclined vapers, I doubt it would make a difference. But, after using this for a few days, I can tell you that I absolutely notice a difference in how it vapes compared to my VV mods. It (as already expressed) is just more consistent vaping. The drag I just took five minutes ago was exactly the same as the first one when I unplugged the Darwin from the charger. I can't say that about my Buzz or my other VV mods. It's close, but no cigar.

Yes, I am well aware of Ohm's Law and how it relates to the topic. I design electrical substations for a living. But I absolutely believe that maintaining the wattage makes a difference. It may not be a huge difference, admittedly, but it is noticeable to me.

I get the same vape every time on my variable passthrough I use. until I run out of e-liquid. I get the same volts, the same amps and the same vapor production.

 

[Rocketman]

If not variable, what voltage would you like? 3.7 (4.5 to 5 watts like me) 4.5v, 5.0v, 5.5v?
And if you bought 50 attys with a +/- 0.2 ohm tolerance, would you through out the outliers?
Variable is handy, I don't use it, 'cause I'm cheap
Those that are pushing the capability of HV mods, or LR attys, just might need fine tuning.

(5 card: only if your atty resistance is the same, right?)

 

[Nuck]

Actually, you can. That's the whole point.

The reason you use a microprocessor to control wattage is because wattage is the golden benchmark of performance for an atomizer. Voltage is arbitrary - 5V on a 2.5ohm atty and 5V on a 3.5ohm atty are completely different. But 8W on a 2.5ohm atty and 8W on a 3.5ohm atty are exactly the same. Once you figure out what wattage you prefer, you never have to mess with it again. Batteries get weak? It vapes the same. Change attys? It vapes the same. Atty gets weak? It vapes the same. Aside from physical differences in atty design (harder or lighter draw, different wicking characteristics), all attys will provide the same performance at a set wattage.

Any AV mod is capable of this, but only with constant manual tweaking based on changing variables. The Darwin will do it all automatically, in real time, with no measurement or adjustment needed from the user.

That's incorrect. A vape from a 901 is not remotely similar to the vape on a 510/801 or 306 at a the same power levels. Each atty has it's own subjective sweet spot.

 

[5cardstud]

If not variable, what voltage would you like? 3.7 (4.5 to 5 watts like me) 4.5v, 5.0v, 5.5v?
And if you bought 50 attys with a +/- 0.2 ohm tolerance, would you through out the outliers?
Variable is handy, I don't use it, 'cause I'm cheap
Those that are pushing the capability of HV mods, or LR attys, just might need fine tuning.

(5 card: only if your atty resistance is the same, right?)

Yes, I'm talking about the same attachment. Of coarse if I put on a different type atty or carto it changes but so does my setting. I pretty much stick with one till it's used. The adjustment isn't that difficult though. Like turning the volume down a touch.

I think it's a cool device alright but I also think it's a little over the top for the normal vapor. I got maybe $40.00 in mine and it works good enough for me. Tells me the volts and amps. I don't need to know any more than that.