I just got a response from cloud 9 why they took down their test results "5 pawns have forced cloud 9 to take down the results due to legal action D:"
Diketones-free vendors
- Thread starter vlahmapoutras
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
Oh, ...wow. THAT is lame. I was a real big fan of five pawns Gambit. I'm not going to vape their liquids until they change the ingredients of their line. Premium my .... I've seen the results on C9Vaping and I was shocked. I have sent an e-mail (as soon as Vaporshark released their lab results) to five pawns and T-juice asking about these unwanted ingredients, whether or not they have been testing their juices. None of them replied. Shame on them.
I think I read somewhere that 5P responded with something on their website maybe? And the testing they had done by some lab in Cali with different results. So confusing! How can one lab have horrible results and another everything is peachy keen? Something smells fishy to me.
But, I'm not a 5P fan so I didn't pay close attention to it all.
I've only been at this a short time, but as soon as I had a bit of common sense kick in to say "hey, do I have ANY idea what I'm forcing into my lungs?" I started buying only juice with published test results. I have no idea if those results will mean anything in the long term, that's a question without answer at the moment. But it's a choice I make, for myself only. I'm glad there's at least the test results to work with, and I appreciate the disclosure.
You made a smart move on the jump. I've moved mostly towards unflavored myself and researching my top ADVs to see if they are hits or misses. Regardless how much I may love a juice/vendor right now, if they can not 100% verify they are DA/AP free, they're outta here.
Their results show high level of A P in some of their liquids as well ( and they have known about since at least Oct 2014 without releasing the results ). It's just that their numbers are not as astronomical as the other lab.
But it's still a huge problem for the industry if indeed the same juice had such different results when tested by different labs.
[QUOTE="Mazinny, post: 16050730, member:
But it's still a huge problem for the industry if indeed the same juice had such different results when tested by different labs.[/QUOTE]
This is my problem at the moment. Have the juices truly been tested equally? if one labs's results are significantly different, why? I'm questioning MDLs, are they the same, and are they a somewhat realistic level based on what we know?
But it's still a huge problem for the industry if indeed the same juice had such different results when tested by different labs.[/QUOTE]
This is my problem at the moment. Have the juices truly been tested equally? if one labs's results are significantly different, why? I'm questioning MDLs, are they the same, and are they a somewhat realistic level based on what we know?
The difference between Five Pawns results and Cloud 9's are - Cloud 9's were higher than Five Pawns which were very high. My stance is there will never be a definitive answer on safety of Diacetyl & AP as it would require research where people were intentionally exposed to what may be a potentially dangerous chemical – and this will never be allowed. I suppose over decades if a large number of vapers vape large quantities of Diacytel and AP we may be able to add a bit more info – it won’t be scientific, it won’t be conclusive and it will be open to dispute - so this will actually never be resolved. You pay your money and you make your choice – providing we have honesty from vendors about their policy and test results to back this up where necessary. I have a fair amount of faith in the UK lab Cloud 9 used - it is used by Trading Standards and if they are proved to be wrong will have massive financial and business implications for them as it would call into question all the results they have produced for Trading and Standards in the past. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't risk this and will stand by their results. I have vaped unflavoured for nearly 2 years now (I prefer it) but I do feel we need makers and resellers to continue to do regular & random checks for those who prefer flavouring. I just hope this doesn't put others off from doing what Cloud 9 did.
Well i know the NJoy AC line has tested clean, and Jeremy seems like a responsible vendor. I heard an interview he had with PBusardo and he seems to be very concerned about the issue. He has removed a couple of juices that tested high and has reformulated a few more. He did mention that they have tested deadly sin i believe ( apparently it sells 10 times as much as his next biggest seller ) and is in the process of testing others. I would call/write them if i were you though.
FYI...results will be hopefully posted soon, but Halo appears to be both DA/AP free. Yahoo!!!!
Awesome. So far, my top ADV vendors I want to stick with are, as I thought, reputable companies with safer juices.
I would really like to see the tests results for them. They have a history of concealing their mix ratios which we all know is high PG. More transparency from them would be great.
If you listen to the Dimitris show it gives good deal of solid science that backs up the view that diketones should not be in the vapor we inhale. It may not be 100% definitive, but there is plenty of evidence that they have the potential to do a good deal of harm.
I don't know if ECF will allow this but here is the show
I have little interest in the back and forth from Cloud 9 and 5pawns. What does interest me is the there are many manufactures (likely in the hundreds, and many of the big names) that are claiming to be diketone free, but have nothing of substance to show as to where they are getting this information. At this point if someone had actual done the testing showing no diketones they would be all over it getting it out to the public with documentation. I am not seeing anyone jumping to the front of the line waving test results.
I get that. I do know the PG/VG ratio depends on the juice but yes, they are mostly higher PG. if you search the forum, Johnny Blaze addressed the PG/VG ratio question back in like 2011 or 2012. I had the post at one time but can't search squat on here anymore.
I was going to bring this up, as Trading and Standards pretty much overseas testing for very high level orgs, as well governmental and all. I really don't doubt the veracity of lab's analysis, based on what I've read, that is used by Trading Standards.
Well, you know the mantra: no test, no claim
HOWEVER, knowing about flavorings from DIY, if you look at almost all of Halo's line, there just aren't any liquids that seem like they would have AP or diketones.....they are not "those kinds of sweet desserts". I also imagine that Halo, sort of like a long time industry leader like Johnson Creek, probably had their act together for quite a number of years, they have chemists on staff, etc. and are QUITE familiar with FDA type regulations, etc. I would guess they had quite a jump-start on all this.
Please do ask Halo about testing though. Maybe not this week
I already asked and tests are nearly completed and they will be posting soon. But your right, proof is in the pudding (as long as the pudding is DA/AP free! LOLOL..ok bad joke) I agree with you that Halo never was into the strong, bakery types. Heck, I would gripe about it to them begging for some. 
It does appear they saw the writing on the wall a long time ago and stayed above board which I'm so thrilled about. And ya, they are a big company unlike many of these smaller ones operating out of their kitchens so they can afford the testing and so forth. Heck they just moved to a new huge facility at the beginning of the year.
As soon as I see the results posted, I will pass the info along.
It does appear they saw the writing on the wall a long time ago and stayed above board which I'm so thrilled about. And ya, they are a big company unlike many of these smaller ones operating out of their kitchens so they can afford the testing and so forth. Heck they just moved to a new huge facility at the beginning of the year.
As soon as I see the results posted, I will pass the info along.
- Status
