DIY Master Techniques - Flavor Add-on's (EM, VW, BW, MTS, ACV, ect)

[we2rcool]

Great report and thank you for providing these results. My results were a bit different although not as in depth as yours. I used a combination saline/bakingsoda solution at 3.6% (1.8 saline/1.8% baking soda). I've settled on adding 3% of this solution in my final mix. I used a kayfun with a chocolate and an arabic mix and a T3 with an elder captain mix all in a 65vg/35pg/14mg base. It did seem to very slightly mute taste of the flavor but not drastically but at the same time smoothed out the harsh edge of the vape. The vapor cloud was increased and wicking was consistant. I've only been testing the mixes for about 12 hours now but have not seen any negative effect on the coils or vapor output and as of yet have not needed to adjust voltage. For me the slight mute in flavor was a decent trade off for the throat irritation relief. Increasing the flavor by 1 - 2 percent would compensate for this flavor loss but for me I don't think it's that far off where I would do this. As my purpose was for throat irritation relief and not fizz reproduction I have no comments on that subject.

I'm confused about the percentages. It seems you had a powder that was 50/50 saline, baking soda -- and you mixed it with what (water ?) to create a 3.6% solution??? And then used that at 3% in your blend.

If that's correct (that you made a 3.6% solution), what inspired that percentage?

Fwiw (for the sake of the thread) we didn't test ours for several days after we mixed them - and that was after 2 hours of ultrasonic/heat, and "caps off" for several hours. Not saying we know that's essential - just saying "ymmv" (possibly) with/with the steeping & airing...but you know all about the steeping/airing thing.

 

[we2rcool]

I also found some Kosher Salt with no additives and I was thinking about how much Salt to Distilled Water.

This is just Ballpark, I put about a Teaspoon of Salt into 250ml of Distilled Water thinking this will give me a .9% Saline Solution does this sound right

This isn't very much Salt!

A .9% dilution = 9 grams of "salt" into 1000 mls of distilled water. Our 'house salt' (Himalayan pink sea salt) weighs in at 2 teaspoons = 9 grams.

So if Kosher Salt is similar in weight/volume, and you used a teaspoon (approximately 4.5 grams), you would have needed about 500 mls of water to come up with a .9% solution.

We came up with a very scant 1/4th teaspoon (a slightly heaping 1/8th teaspoon) of our salt was 'about right' for 100 mls of water for making a .9% solution. But Kosher salt is 'bigger chunks' (more "air space" between the chunks), so the weight for any measurement of volume will be different.

Those are 'ballpark guestimations' based on our salt. Wethinks having a cheap gram scale is imperative for mixing 'percentage solutions' (we gots to have 'repeatable consistency' for ourselves, and for others when we share our recipes). But what others 'gots to have' is up to them.

Edit - we do not make our saline solution - the prepared solution is easy to get, consistent in quality, assured of no additives, and less hassle for us.

 

[Blueser]

Did I miss what percentage to use for the saline solution. I just started using some 0.9 I got from my pharmacy. I've just been putting about 8-9 drops in a 15ml bottle???

 

[ukeman]

A .9% dilution = 9 grams of "salt" into 1000 mls of distilled water. Our 'house salt' (Himalayan pink sea salt) weighs in at 2 teaspoons = 9 grams.

So if Kosher Salt is similar in weight/volume, and you used a teaspoon (approximately 4.5 grams), you would have needed about 500 mls of water to come up with a .9% solution.

We came up with a very scant 1/4th teaspoon (a slightly heaping 1/8th teaspoon) of our salt was 'about right' for 100 mls of water for making a .9% solution. But Kosher salt is 'bigger chunks' (more "air space" between the chunks), so the weight for any measurement of volume will be different.

Those are 'ballpark guestimations' based on our salt. Wethinks having a cheap gram scale is imperative for mixing 'percentage solutions' (we gots to have 'repeatable consistency' for ourselves, and for others when we share our recipes). But what others 'gots to have' is up to them.

Edit - we do not make our saline solution - the prepared solution is easy to get, consistent in quality, assured of no additives, and less hassle for us.

nice, i was thinking you made yours out of Himalayan, then i saw your edit… yes, it seems the saline wash with just water seems to be the best bet so far but there is room for others (w/b soda, etc?)…

I am particular about food and use whole sea salt ie Himalayan which has all the trace minerals in perfect nutritional balance… but the saline wash is just a clean sodium chloride sans additives… or as some may have found, Kosher is clean, so is pickling/canning salt.

now, back to dilution % etc….

 

[michaelsil1]

nice, i was thinking you made yours out of Himalayan, then i saw your edit… yes, it seems the saline wash with just water seems to be the best bet so far but there is room for others (w/b soda, etc?)…

I am particular about food and use whole sea salt ie Himalayan which has all the trace minerals in perfect nutritional balance… but the saline wash is just a clean sodium chloride sans additives… or as some may have found, Kosher is clean, so is pickling/canning salt.

now, back to dilution % etc….

Pharmaceutical Saline (Sodium Chloride) is used in three different strengths .9%, 3%, 5%

I didn't know which one to use so I mixed a 2% Solution (Sodium Chloride) that I know can easily be replicated.

BTW

Not all Kosher Salt is additive free, I found one that was.

 

[we2rcool]

Did I miss what percentage to use for the saline solution. I just started using some 0.9 I got from my pharmacy. I've just been putting about 8-9 drops in a 15ml bottle???

We make a "base" of 80% VG; 9% distilled water; 9% saline solution (.9%) and 2% PGA...and use that as "VG".

 

[Blueser]

Nevermind...found answer

 

[michaelsil1]

A .9% dilution = 9 grams of "salt" into 1000 mls of distilled water. Our 'house salt' (Himalayan pink sea salt) weighs in at 2 teaspoons = 9 grams.

So if Kosher Salt is similar in weight/volume, and you used a teaspoon (approximately 4.5 grams), you would have needed about 500 mls of water to come up with a .9% solution.

We came up with a very scant 1/4th teaspoon (a slightly heaping 1/8th teaspoon) of our salt was 'about right' for 100 mls of water for making a .9% solution. But Kosher salt is 'bigger chunks' (more "air space" between the chunks), so the weight for any measurement of volume will be different.

Those are 'ballpark guestimations' based on our salt. Wethinks having a cheap gram scale is imperative for mixing 'percentage solutions' (we gots to have 'repeatable consistency' for ourselves, and for others when we share our recipes). But what others 'gots to have' is up to them.

Edit - we do not make our saline solution - the prepared solution is easy to get, consistent in quality, assured of no additives, and less hassle for us.

Thanks,

I wasn't sure if the amount of Salt added was by Weight or Volume.

I looked at how much Salt (Mix) was in those Premixed Packages then I put the same amount of Salt (Sodium Chloride) in their empty bottle.

Next time I'll weigh it.

 

[dannyv45]

I'm confused about the percentages. It seems you had a powder that was 50/50 saline, baking soda -- and you mixed it with what (water ?) to create a 3.6% solution??? And then used that at 3% in your blend.

If that's correct (that you made a 3.6% solution), what inspired that percentage?

Fwiw (for the sake of the thread) we didn't test ours for several days after we mixed them - and that was after 2 hours of ultrasonic/heat, and "caps off" for several hours. Not saying we know that's essential - just saying "ymmv" (possibly) with/with the steeping & airing...but you know all about the steeping/airing thing.

Sorry that was a bit confusing. What I did was mix 2 packets of the Neilmed sinus rinse (Saline/baking soda CVS, Walgreens, Walmart) with 8oz of distilled water. Each package makes a 1.8% solution so 2 packets in 8oz = 3.8% solution. The reason I used a 3.8% solution is because I vape 65VG\35PG and didn't want to thin the mix to much. So I used 3% of that 3.8% solution in the mix. If you are vaping greater then 80%VG then I would recommend using 1 packet (1.8% solution) and add it at 6% to your mix.

Hope that clears things up.

 

[dannyv45]

Not yet. I have a bunch of stuff I haven't gotten around to yet.

I found the Neilman sinus rince does help the drying effect of vaping quite a bit. I've been vaping it for 2 days and it seems the hacking and caughing at bed time is completely gone. I find at the end of the evening my throat is not nearly as irritated and it does smooth out the vape a lot getting rid of any harch edge it may have. It does take a slight hit on flavor but 1 - 2% more flavor should compensate for that. To me it's so slight I don't think I would compensate for the loss myself.

 

[michaelsil1]

Sorry that was a bit confusing. What I did was mix 2 packets of the Neilmed sinus rinse (Saline/baking soda CVS, Walgreens, Walmart) with 8oz of distilled water. Each package makes a 1.8% solution so 2 packets in 8oz = 3.8% solution. The reason I used a 3.8% solution is because I vape 65VG\35PG and didn't want to thin the mix to much. So I used 3% of that 3.8% solution in the mix. If you are vaping greater then 80%VG then I would recommend using 1 packet (1.8% solution) and add it at 6% to your mix.

Hope that clears things up.

Thanks Danny this leads me to believe that my 2% Saline Solution (Sodium Chloride) is close enough.

 

[Chas F.]

I spoke with one of the chemical engineers I work with about whether or not salt can be tasted in vapor. Her response was inconclusive, meaning she doesn't have any hard data suggesting the salt can be 'perceived' in vapor but she 'believes' it is likely that we can.

I'm going with my personal experience and say yes we can.

 

[AttyPops]

I spoke with one of the chemical engineers I work with about whether or not salt can be tasted in vapor. Her response was inconclusive, meaning she doesn't have any hard data suggesting the salt can be 'perceived' in vapor but she 'believes' it is likely that we can.

I'm going with my personal experience and say yes we can.

Yeah. Cool. We all pretty much confirmed that too. There's lots of different "toppers" to check...but I could taste it with an RDA...but it spit and/or managed to work itself into the vape or drip tip. So some of it does. But it really doesn't vape well, IMO.

IDK why this fascination with saline over water. I'm less worried about that than the PH thing...but then again, IDK if there's a PH standard for e-juice anyway. It may all be different depending on flavor or source.

 

[Chas F.]

I started using saline to enhance flavor. I think it does, but I'm very sensitive to it so I dunno if everyone will.

 

[FACE MEAT]

A .9% dilution = 9 grams of "salt" into 1000 mls of distilled water.

Technically, it'd be 9 grams of salt into 991mL of water.

 

[dannyv45]

Thanks Danny this leads me to believe that my 2% Saline Solution (Sodium Chloride) is close enough.

More then likely. Let me know how it works out.

 

[landman2k1]

Technically, it'd be 9 grams of salt into 991mL of water.

Wouldn't a .9% solution be .9 grams into 99.1ml?

 

[Blueser]

We make a "base" of 80% VG; 9% distilled water; 9% saline solution (.9%) and 2% PGA...and use that as "VG".

thanks, I'll give that a try

 

[we2rcool]

Yeah. Cool. We all pretty much confirmed that too. There's lots of different "toppers" to check...but I could taste it with an RDA...but it spit and/or managed to work itself into the vape or drip tip. So some of it does. But it really doesn't vape well, IMO.

IDK why this fascination with saline over water. I'm less worried about that than the PH thing...but then again, IDK if there's a PH standard for e-juice anyway. It may all be different depending on flavor or source.

There are two reasons (one can read various tips & experiences & reasons starting around post #53 in this thread):

--Saline HYDRATES! Nebulizing, steaming & vaporizing saline has been used 'for forever' for hydrating, soothing and even decongesting nose, sinus, mouth, lungs, bronchial tubes, etc. (so those that are getting 'soothing effects', and attributing it solely to the baking soda in a soda/saline mix...???)

--Saline definitely enhances flavor!

And one of the things we're checking out is something I just noticed in reviewing the thread (post #81)...

Hmmm.... travel irons and other steamers used on fabric rely on salt to produce plums of steam to remove wrinkles and you just put table salt in those.

When I googled "steam production", saline -- I saw that major steam production engines use saline water. 'Makes sense, since salt lowers the boiling point AND increases conductivity!

But does that generate MORE steam/vapor? (more vapor = even more flavor). So, googling further, I see that at least two different sites that suggest 'adding salt to humidifier for more steam'. Perhaps there's someone that could/would explain "the science" behind how it works.

Since our liquids are primarily VG (only the 'flavors' contain PG) - our vapor production (even with BCCs) has always been substantial (it easily rivals or bests our Cisco 306 atty's from Avid Vapers...and that's a LOT of vapor)...so maybe that's also had something to do with the saline!

Here's a GREAT thread from aussievapers on using saline solution! VG and water mix + saline

And that's what we2 can add regarding "why the fascination?". We have always thought that saline is essential for DIY. And we're not the only ones... every juice should begin with saline (#7)

 

[ukeman]

I found the Neilman sinus rince does help the drying effect of vaping quite a bit. I've been vaping it for 2 days and it seems the hacking and caughing at bed time is completely gone. I find at the end of the evening my throat is not nearly as irritated and it does smooth out the vape a lot getting rid of any harch edge it may have. It does take a slight hit on flavor but 1 - 2% more flavor should compensate for that. To me it's so slight I don't think I would compensate for the loss myself.

this speaks to me… a lot. chain vaper here… flavors seem sharp after a few hours and irritating.
I've tried some of additives that this thread focused on earlier and Sweet Cream (tfa) so far does it for me more than a sweetener like EM or Cotton Candy, Marshmallow… because my juices are pretty sweet already.
(go low on the SC though (1 -2%); it is strong and gets a cafe type of taste in higher %)

Got to find the right saline though (ideally sod.chloride and water… w/ baking soda if no choice; i'd try both) not a lot of choices in this neck of the woods… we will get to it soon enough.