Does vaping at a low wattage offer the same benefit as temp control?

[Brewdawg1181]

I don't worry too much about all that these days.

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Damn, DP. I really haven't wanted a smoke in a long time. But something about that image brought a real, visceral reaction. I mean, it looks GOOD! So many years of having a fresh pack of those....I don't know. I don't want one still, but that image...

All those years in the '70's of putting them in your sock (because the Levis were too tight), to keep your mom & teachers from seeing them in your front pocket. And in the summer, tucking them in the front of your underwear behind your cutoff jeans shorts. We curse a bad vape sometimes. But I remember trying to get a decent hit out of a smoke, properly humidified with all-day-sweat, that came out of a 50₵ pack that looked worse than this:

 

[Electrodave]

Damn, DP. I really haven't wanted a smoke in a long time. But something about that image brought a real, visceral reaction. I mean, it looks GOOD! So many years of having a fresh pack of those....I don't know. I don't want one still, but that image...

All those years in the '70's of putting them in your sock (because the Levis were too tight), to keep your mom & teachers from seeing them in your front pocket. And in the summer, tucking them in the front of your underwear behind your cutoff jeans shorts. We curse a bad vape sometimes. But I remember trying to get a decent hit out of a smoke, properly humidified with all-day-sweat, that came out of a 50₵ pack that looked worse than this:
View attachment 824577

I used to roll 'em up in my shirt sleeve.

 

[Brewdawg1181]

I used to roll 'em up in my shirt sleeve.

Your mom wasn't as tough as mine!
Or maybe she was, and you just weren't as scared of her as I was of mine.

 

[Jebbn]

My MTL set ups get hotter than my DL set ups unless my mtl set ups have the airflow wide open and a wider bore drip tip. If I have them wide open and loose draw I can maintain quite a cool MTL vape if I draw sharply and with force. It doesnt resemble a smokers draw in anyway.
I use the same type of coil whether MTL or DL - .06-.08ohm 28ga ss. I get up to about 14w at the most for DL and about 11w would be about the max for MTL.
I dont use flavours often, its part harm reduction and part preference. I think vape flavours are generally quite horrible tbh. I use DW 9-11%, the rest is vg and nic.
I use 2-3mg nic for DL and 4-6mg for MTL.
Using TC with my DL rta's I very really trip the TC at 170c but with MTL its easily achievable.
I dont think for myself TC is important or beneficial when I DL. I actually tend to vape warmer with TC than in VV or VW when I DL but I do like the idea of a visual reference to check.
I will probably continue with TC when I MTL simply because it seems to me with my preferred MTL technique its easy to get quite a hot(to me) vape going quite quickly.
For me DL is a superior nicotine delivery system and for me means I can spend less time vaping, using less mg's and less ml's each day and at a lower temp, 160c to 190c.
I know using high mg nic and MTL does not suit me at all, its now quite repulsive actually even though its how I started vaping. I know how I vape is not for everyone, its just where I ended up being happy.

 

[Brewdawg1181]

Wait, Dave - but did they have hardpacks in the roll-them-up-in-your-sleeves days?

 

[Electrodave]

Hard packs aren't very good for rolling up in your sleeve. Soft packs conform to the shape of your arm. Camel Filters in the soft pack in those days.

 

[Brewdawg1181]

Hard packs aren't very good for rolling up in your sleeve. Soft packs conform to the shape of your arm. Camel Filters in the soft pack in those days.

Guess it still works with a hardpack, but wears little holes in the shirt at the corners.

Those corners were uncomfortable in the front of the pants, until the sweat wore them down!

 

[MyMagicMist]

I'll try to explain the temp control concept a bit clearer - you've seen mods allow to change the temperature and the actual wattage, right?

No I've not. I quit using any kind of regulated device near literally right as this whole notion of temperature control come to be.

The actual temperature setting is what your mod will try to maintain under varying conditions - when taking a puff, you are actually cooling a coil with air, so mod will take that into account and will boost power, if there's enough liquid in the cotton and coil for a dry hit not to happen.

Cheaper mods with not-so-good chips will actually overshoot temperature, since they can't react quickly enough to resistance changes and make temperature adjustments. Or they read resistance way off.

That all sounds interesting and I'm sure to some it makes good sense & is outstanding clear. I quote myself below in case you didn't quite see it last I posted. For me, temperature control is not an issue. Even should I desire some time in the future to use a regulated device I'll find something that's simply VV/VW and stick to that. See no need to over complicate things. Also not having an electronics engineering degree, I'm not apt to fix any kind of regulated device that breaks on me. That leaves me with a paperweight and not a mod to vape on.

Then, I'm a mech using Luddite too.

 

[HigherStateD]

To be fair, Punk, that really wasn't his point at all. He even said "any set up, any wattage, can produce bad things equally if wanted, and "as if there aren't numerous variables..."

You used some of those variables to respond to his post. His only real point was that regardless of temps, high juice consumption possibly could be a concern tantamount to temperature. And I didn't see any implication that high volume consumption was worse than smokes.

Much of this other stuff started with a claim that all else being equal (implied), that restricted atty intake caused temperatures to "skyrocket, " due to increased pressure. I proved (sufficiently for myself, anyway) as I posted above, that it doesn't even increase the temp, but actuall decreases it incrementally, at least with my setup.

I think most of us here enjoy discussing and arguing about this stuff - hey, it's interesting. But also that we're all better off than smoking. And hey - I enjoy this forum a lot more than I would have a smoking forum! Where else can you have this much fun with such a spirited discussion of theoretical physics?

Right?

I'll try to explain the temp control concept a bit clearer - you've seen mods allow to change the temperature and the actual wattage, right?
Wattage on temp control mode is just preheat power needed to ramp up to the temperature at your desired speed.
The actual temperature setting is what your mod will try to maintain under varying conditions - when taking a puff, you are actually cooling a coil with air, so mod will take that into account and will boost power, if there's enough liquid in the cotton and coil for a dry hit not to happen.

Cheaper mods with not-so-good chips will actually overshoot temperature, since they can't react quickly enough to resistance changes and make temperature adjustments. Or they read resistance way off.

Coils do cool on their own, it's like simple physics. Smaller coils cool quicker than big ones due to mass difference. Also coil material also plays some role here too.

Moreover, temp control works only with specific coil materials (Ti, Nickel, SS), because they aren't as stable as kanthal or NiChrome from resistance standpoint.

And here I thought the all powerful DNA chip could do TC on any wire type, as well as measure the temperature of the chamber, and somehow register different hot spots in the coil due to turbulence?

 

[airidosas252]

Right?



And here I thought the all powerful DNA chip could do TC on any wire type, as well as measure the temperature of the chamber, and somehow register different hot spots in the coil due to turbulence?

Nah, it's more or less impossible to do TC on kanthal, since it's a really stable material.
DNAs are best at accuracy, other than that other mods are quickly catching up to them. Innokin mods do have great TC capabilities, for example, so you don't need to search for the most expensive mod to be able to use it's upmost features without a hitch.

To trace the temperature in the chamber, you'd need a temperature sensor of some kind for that.

TC wire works similar to temperature sensor, albeit it's kinda another way around - as the wire heats up, it expands, it's resistance increases, thus with proper resistance to temperature table you could actually gather up the correct temperature at certain moments.
And for TC to work properly, not only you need properly calibrated mod, as well as for it to be able to quickly make those changes on the fly.

P.S. Man, it's really difficult to describe all of this. Lol

 

[HigherStateD]

Nah, it's more or less impossible to do TC on kanthal, since it's a really stable material.
DNAs are best at accuracy, other than that other mods are quickly catching up to them. Innokin mods do have great TC capabilities, for example, so you don't need to search for the most expensive mod to be able to use it's upmost features without a hitch.

To trace the temperature in the chamber, you'd need a temperature sensor of some kind for that.

TC wire works similar to temperature sensor, albeit it's kinda another way around - as the wire heats up, it expands, it's resistance increases, thus with proper resistance to temperature table you could actually gather up the correct temperature at certain moments.
And for TC to work properly, not only you need properly calibrated mod, as well as for it to be able to quickly make those changes on the fly.

P.S. Man, it's really difficult to describe all of this. Lol

I know, it's quite the interesting challenge learning it in a translated Russian manual for Arctic fox too.

 

[HigherStateD]

Woops, wrong thread. Sorry. Darn popups

 

[HigherStateD]

It does make sense. But here's a question. How long do you pulse a mod to get the coil firing? I usually like five to eight seconds myself. Then, there's usually around thirty seconds to a minute, possibly longer between draws.

Doesn't the coil/s cool after a certain amount of time passing? It's not being fired so there's no constant heat on the coil/s. Do the coil materials not cool on their own after time passes?

If they do, for myself, what is the point of using temperature control? I don't see a point. Then, I'm a mech using Luddite too.

What is this 5-8 second puls you speak of? I hit the button, the mod fires. No waiting. I take a puff. Any from 1-4 seconds. The coil stays below a certain resistance, as defined by TCR or TFR. My coil cools. Ten seconds later, I take another puff. Wash, rinse, repeat as desired.

 

[vapdivrr]

What is this 5-8 second puls you speak of? I hit the button, the mod fires. No waiting. I take a puff. Any from 1-4 seconds. The coil stays below a certain resistance, as defined by TCR or TFR. My coil cools. Ten seconds later, I take another puff. Wash, rinse, repeat as desired.

Pulse wait, fire vape, no wonder these mods fail in such a short time, lol. I think he just meant fire, not pulse, I think.....

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[vapdivrr]

I vape at 7W on a 1.8ohm Nautilus BVC coil head. Temp control does nothing for me at all. Apparently, I'm doing it in such a way so as not to cause too many bad chemicals to appear. The whole thing is silly. Compared to what you were doing to yourself with tobacco, a little formaldehyde is no biggy anyway.

Doesnt bother me either, in fact it gives the vape a little kick...[emoji3]

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[vapdivrr]

Mtl is a hotter vape then a dtl vape with all things being equal? Well not sure, but it should be, a vape with more air cooling the coil is a cooler vape. If I sit here and vape a 2 second mtl hit and compare that to a 2 second dtl hit, its exactly the same, the only difference is one is going straight to lungs and the other is not....now if you take a 5 second dtl hit and compare it to 2 second mtl hit, perhaps the 5 second dtl hit is cooling more, but that's not equal.....at least for me, a dtl vs mtl has the same lung pull force, I dont pull any faster either way, it's just the way it goes down and if they are equal, then there's no difference....if all things are equal, including how you pull for either, then both are the same, so it's simply, the more air cooling the coil, the cooler that vape is. so imo it has nothing to do with mtl vs dtl if things are really equal. I guess the difference comes with longer dtl pulls, let's say 5 seconds and longer and as you compare that to a 5 or so longer mtl pull, maybe then it's harder to maintain that mtl pull at the same pull rate...I dont know why I write this garbage, who really cares, as long as we are vaping and not smoking , right.....but I guess it's a little interesting

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[Punk In Drublic]

No I've not. I quit using any kind of regulated device near literally right as this whole notion of temperature control come to be.



That all sounds interesting and I'm sure to some it makes good sense & is outstanding clear. I quote myself below in case you didn't quite see it last I posted. For me, temperature control is not an issue. Even should I desire some time in the future to use a regulated device I'll find something that's simply VV/VW and stick to that. See no need to over complicate things. Also not having an electronics engineering degree, I'm not apt to fix any kind of regulated device that breaks on me. That leaves me with a paperweight and not a mod to vape on.

Did you obtain a degree in computer science in order to make this comment? Just curious.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

To compare heat is debateable. It is logical to say (and even prove) that should all else be equal, the same coil within the same atomizer at the same power will become hotter for the same duration of pull should there be less airflow, assuming the same amount of juice that has the same VG/PG ratio. However, the problem is not everything is equal and the variables involved can easily sway the results to favor one side or another.

As for vapor production/consumption. Again, not all is equal – in fact given the different styles I do not know how one can obtain an equal playing field in order to draw a fair conclusion.

 

[MyMagicMist]

What is this 5-8 second puls you speak of?

That's how long I hold the fire button down to take a draw off the RDA. I pulse fire for about 5-8 seconds. I don't wait 8 seconds, I push fire it fires. I do hold the fire 5-8 seconds though to draw off of it.

 

[MyMagicMist]

Did you obtain a degree in computer science in order to make this comment? Just curious.

No I didn't and your point is taken. My point was I get confused trying to figure out the internals of all these fancy new regulated mods. I've not done any real electronics work. Might have played around a little here and there with some transistor radios, nothing I would deem apt to qualify myself to feel confident enough to operate on and repair effectively new regulated mods.