E2 Cartomizer Technical Discussion

[zoiDman]

Like you, I've tried some of the new stuff, mostly the CE2 clones. Some of them have a pretty good potential for most folks, but I still prefer to roll my own.

Yeah, I turn the lathe on when I get the chance. Although I'm becoming more handicapped all along, I still manage to turn out a new one every now and then. I'm still experimenting with the air flow through these things and still learning a bit from time to time.

Also, I've increased the cup size even more here lately, which allows more space between the coil turns. If the coil resistance is low enough, it looks more like a spiral. If the coil is burned off within a reasonable length of time, the crud does not bridge over between the turns and only a small amount of ash is left on the wire.

One of the reasons why the coil turns are less is because the later versions have two fat wicks, thus increasing their diameter. But then, that's not the reason for using two of them. Most of these wicks work well enough, but a few of them are absolutely awful. In order to get good results with all new builds or rebuilds, two of them always work every time. Actually, one of them does not need to be full length, and I usually use half of an old used wick for the second one.

I don't have any photos of my later ones yet, but here is a recent build for a Vison TOX battery from GotVapes.

First the drawing:

And then a shot from my fuzzy old camera of the real thing:

Notice that the air intake holes are in the side. There is more than one reason why they are there, but one advantage is that no juice can get inside the battery battery fitting. This also allows the skirt to screw down on the battery head with no gap. There ain't no Shinola inside my battery, heheh.

This one doesn't have a blue LED inside, but my latest one for a SUN 1200 mAh battery does. It has the same diameter as the battery, which is also a perfect match for the E-Power battery.

Wow...

Just too Blown Away to even reply.

Lemme Sleep and then look at this in the mourning with about 3 cps of Joe.

As Allways Br....

Outstanding.

 

[br5495]

Does anyone else subscribe to this thread anymore? If so, signify by posting "AYE". Either that, or raise your hand, heheh.

In my last post I spoke of my latest Masterpiece that has a blue LED inside and is used with a SUN 1200 mAh battery. So, here it is screwed on to one of my latest projects.

This project is a Pass Through that operates from a variable power supply. Its tube is made from an old SUN battery case, and it is activated by a mechanical switch button from Radio Shack. The cable attaches to it with a jack and plug, also from Radio Shack.

Sometimes I use it as shown above, but most of the time it is used with a test rig. This rig allows voltage and coil resistance measurements while a cartomizer is in use. This thing is almost bullet proof and I never have to worry about ruining a battery due to dead shorts of a sloppy built prototype.

Most of the time though, the rig is used for dry burning the coil. I burn it off before each 3ml re-fill, which happens twice each day. I read the coil resistance before and after each burn, which lets me know if the coil is developing a problem. These problems vary and you may be surprised at how much a coil can change one way or the other during long term use.

I know. This sounds like a lot of time and trouble, but most of the time it's not. When everything is working as it should, maintenance is less than 10 minutes each day. This is the total time between a dry vape and being back in business with fresh juice. I used to do it down and dirty in half that time, but coil failure was more often. Heck, when I was smoking 3 or 4 packs a day, I spent more time than that just fishing them suckers out and striking a light. And now I ain't got no sore thumb from the flint wheel.

This is what the cartomizer drawing looks like, minus the LED. It looks about the same as all my other projects because I haven't been able to come up with anything better, but I ain't through thinking yet.

 

[LucentShadow]

[raises hand]

I'd been thinking about ways to make a ce2 style more to my liking, but now I'm finding factory products that are close to fitting the bill.

Still, I find this thread to be quite interesting. If I ever get hold of the materials and tooling, I'd like to give something like this a go sometime.

 

[br5495]

[raises hand]

I'd been thinking about ways to make a ce2 style more to my liking, but now I'm finding factory products that are close to fitting the bill.

Still, I find this thread to be quite interesting. If I ever get hold of the materials and tooling, I'd like to give something like this a go sometime.

A good number of people agree with your findings. The CE2 led the way for a whole host of newer factory products, some of them pretty darn good. As a matter of fact, I've tried a few that come close to my liking. I'm too old and beat up to keep making these things much longer and will probably be forced to go to one of these ready rolls.

 

[MaxUT]

Aye!

Nice work BR. Hope I can still see well enough to run a lathe after I retire.

 

[rbonie]

BR !!! Haven't been on this thread in a while.. Seemed like it went dead for a while.
BTW are you doing anything on the "Genesis" issue??

 

[br5495]

Aye!

Nice work BR. Hope I can still see well enough to run a lathe after I retire.

Thanks for the compliment.

Here's hoping you can see better than me after you retire. I have to do almost everything under large magnification lights, including the lathe. Even then, I sometimes have to put on the headband thing to see the smaller stuff.

 

[br5495]

BR !!! Haven't been on this thread in a while.. Seemed like it went dead for a while.
BTW are you doing anything on the "Genesis" issue??

It's good seeing you again. I just thought I'd try waking up the dead and see what happens, heheh. Now that I do my own thing, I ain't got no compatible thread to go to.

The Genesis doesn't work well for me and the way I vape. One of the reasons is that it produces too much condensation with the juice I use. My builds almost eliminates it, but not quite.

 

[MaxUT]

The Genesis doesn't work well for me and the way I vape. One of the reasons is that it produces too much condensation with the juice I use. My builds almost eliminates it, but not quite.

I wonder if it's boiling droplets out of the mesh openings?

I've been curious to try this hybrid atty in order to experiment with a Genesis-type wick.

 

[br5495]

I wonder if it's boiling droplets out of the mesh openings?

I've been curious to try this hybrid atty in order to experiment with a Genesis-type wick.

Because of the way it is constructed, the Genesis coil and wick has to be in a rather large chamber. The air intake is on the side of this chamber, which means that it must be full of vapor before the mouthpiece can draw it off. As a result, a good bit of condensation forms on the cooler inside wall of this chamber.

The only place where condensation can form in the Masterpiece is inside the coil cup, which is much smaller by comparison. Therefore, the vapor is a good bit hotter in this smaller space and does not get a chance to cool down as much. Or something like that, heheh.

Maybe I have the wrong explanation about it all, but I am certain about one thing. With other types of cartomizers, I often get a wet taste in my mouth (and/or maybe gurgles in the air intake). I know it is condensation because it has the sweet taste of glycerin instead of the bitter taste of nicotine. Regardless of what it is or why, this is one of the problems that is addressed in the ongoing development of the Masterpiece. Keep in mind that this cartomizer has been tailored to my juice and the way I use it, so it may not mean a thing to anyone else.

 

[rbonie]

I wonder if it's boiling droplets out of the mesh openings?

I've been curious to try this hybrid atty in order to experiment with a Genesis-type wick.

Tried it... OK for a "DRIP" atty. My prob is the leetle tiny screws!!!!

 

[gdeal]

Does anyone else subscribe to this thread anymore? If so, signify by posting "AYE". Either that, or raise your hand, heheh.

In my last post I spoke of my latest Masterpiece that has a blue LED inside and is used with a SUN 1200 mAh battery. So, here it is screwed on to one of my latest projects.

This project is a Pass Through that operates from a variable power supply. Its tube is made from an old SUN battery case, and it is activated by a mechanical switch button from Radio Shack. The cable attaches to it with a jack and plug, also from Radio Shack.

Sometimes I use it as shown above, but most of the time it is used with a test rig. This rig allows voltage and coil resistance measurements while a cartomizer is in use. This thing is almost bullet proof and I never have to worry about ruining a battery due to dead shorts of a sloppy built prototype.

Most of the time though, the rig is used for dry burning the coil. I burn it off before each 3ml re-fill, which happens twice each day. I read the coil resistance before and after each burn, which lets me know if the coil is developing a problem. These problems vary and you may be surprised at how much a coil can change one way or the other during long term use.

I know. This sounds like a lot of time and trouble, but most of the time it's not. When everything is working as it should, maintenance is less than 10 minutes each day. This is the total time between a dry vape and being back in business with fresh juice. I used to do it down and dirty in half that time, but coil failure was more often. Heck, when I was smoking 3 or 4 packs a day, I spent more time than that just fishing them suckers out and striking a light. And now I ain't got no sore thumb from the flint wheel.

This is what the cartomizer drawing looks like, minus the LED. It looks about the same as all my other projects because I haven't been able to come up with anything better, but I ain't through thinking yet.

BR ...just stumbled onto this thread. I did not go through the 4000+ posts, but I really like your Masterpiece. That Tank/Carto is sorta what the Vivi Nova should be when it grows up. OMG is that atty cup almost 9mm?

Over at the Vivi Nova Rebuild Tutorial thread we have been going after different wick configurations. What have you found to be your optimal wick?

Here's a link for a Vivi Mod that has a ceramic cup. Haha..it look so puny compared to yours.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ivi-nova-rebuild-tutorial-10.html#post7368013

 

[br5495]

BR ...just stumbled onto this thread. I did not go through the 4000+ posts, but I really like your Masterpiece. That Tank/Carto is sorta what the Vivi Nova should be when it grows up. OMG is that atty cup almost 9mm?

Over at the Vivi Nova Rebuild Tutorial thread we have been going after different wick configurations. What have you found to be your optimal wick?

Here's a link for a Vivi Mod that has a ceramic cup. Haha..it look so puny compared to yours.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ivi-nova-rebuild-tutorial-10.html#post7368013

Thanks for the good words, gdeal. Had you gone through the 4000+ posts, you would have seen how the Masterpiece has evolved. You would have also seen the ideas from several of us that are the forerunners of the clear cartomizers and tanks that are now on the market today, including the Vivi Nova.

Yes, the atty cup is that big for 3 good reasons:

#1 - A large cup has a longer wick inside, providing more juice for the coil.

#2 - A large cup allows for more space between the coil turns. This helps to keep the carbon buildup from bridging over between the turns. The two fat wicks reduce the coil count and makes the space even greater. Less carbon buildup is the result if it is burned off soon enough to prevent bridging.

#3 - Less maintenance and longer coil and wick life can be expected with the above arrangement. This has been proven by continuous use of this cartomizer from the date of the original post.

Would you believe that this cartomizer went almost five months without a rebuild? It's true. The wick broke in two day before yesterday and I replaced it. The coil was still good, but I replaced it too. The wick did not break because of fiber loss. It was getting pretty hard though, and I accidentally broke it while dusting ash off of the coil wire with a dental brush.

So, in answer to one of your questions, my wick of choice is the one in this cartomizer. I can vape it back to back from a vertical position and it will drain the tank dry. For my juice and the way I use it, I don't need anything to work better, and I don't know what else will go this long between overhaul.

For the past month or so I have been using this thing with fewer dry burns, which has probably extended the coil life. I dry burn it every other day now instead of twice a day. My older designs required more burns to keep performance and taste up to par, and it took a while for me to discover that this one can get by with less maintenance.

 

[gdeal]

Thanks for the good words, gdeal. Had you gone through the 4000+ posts, you would have seen how the Masterpiece has evolved. You would have also seen the ideas from several of us that are the forerunners of the clear cartomizers and tanks that are now on the market today, including the Vivi Nova.

Yes, the atty cup is that big for 3 good reasons:

#1 - A large cup has a longer wick inside, providing more juice for the coil.

#2 - A large cup allows for more space between the coil turns. This helps to keep the carbon buildup from bridging over between the turns. The two fat wicks reduce the coil count and makes the space even greater. Less carbon buildup is the result if it is burned off soon enough to prevent bridging.

#3 - Less maintenance and longer coil and wick life can be expected with the above arrangement. This has been proven by continuous use of this cartomizer from the date of the original post.

Would you believe that this cartomizer went almost five months without a rebuild? It's true. The wick broke in two day before yesterday and I replaced it. The coil was still good, but I replaced it too. The wick did not break because of fiber loss. It was getting pretty hard though, and I accidentally broke it while dusting ash off of the coil wire with a dental brush.

So, in answer to one of your questions, my wick of choice is the one in this cartomizer. I can vape it back to back from a vertical position and it will drain the tank dry. For my juice and the way I use it, I don't need anything to work better, and I don't know what else will go this long between overhaul.

For the past month or so I have been using this thing with fewer dry burns, which has probably extended the coil life. I dry burn it every other day now instead of twice a day. My older designs required more burns to keep performance and taste up to par, and it took a while for me to discover that this one can get by with less maintenance.

All very impressive!

I will now need to roll-up my sleeves and invest some time to study this thread. What struck me was that a majority of issues that are being compensated for in modding the vivi nova were all addressed in your one engineering drawing.

Granted that I have only been vaping for about three months and really only tweaking the vivi for about two months, the old saying "I know it when I see it" applies here.

I may come back with a few discrete questions if you do not mind.

 

[br5495]

All very impressive!

I will now need to roll-up my sleeves and invest some time to study this thread. What struck me was that a majority of issues that are being compensated for in modding the vivi nova were all addressed in your one engineering drawing.

Granted that I have only been vaping for about three months and really only tweaking the vivi for about two months, the old saying "I know it when I see it" applies here.

I may come back with a few discrete questions if you do not mind.

It probably will not be a good investment to study this thread. It's loaded with half vast ideas that didn't pan out, including some of my own. Then too, we did a lot of stuff in the following thread and I don't remember where we done what.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...kers-c-e2-r4-review-tips-info-help-video.html

You seem to be on the right track even though you haven't been at it very long. Who knows? Maybe you'll come up with something that we haven't thought of yet. So I'll be glad to help you with any questions that you may have.

 

[gdeal]

BR

Did a quick review of both threads. Not as much as I hoped for, but I did not realize how fast the tech/products have advanced over the last two years. I did a lol when I saw some of those older carto pictures with the silicon goop.

Any way, I am still fixated on your design. I agree with you on chamber size. Large enough for proper coiling but small enough to minimize condensation and vapor expansion.

Have you considered a ceramic cup or perhaps even a complete ceramic containment chamber?

I came across this material. ...what do you think?

3" x 3/8" Diameter MACOR Rod Form

http://www.technicalproductsinc.com/pdf/macor.pdf

 

[br5495]

BR

Did a quick review of both threads. Not as much as I hoped for, but I did not realize how fast the tech/products have advanced over the last two years. I did a lol when I saw some of those older carto pictures with the silicon goop.

Any way, I am still fixated on your design. I agree with you on chamber size. Large enough for proper coiling but small enough to minimize condensation and vapor expansion.

Have you considered a ceramic cup or perhaps even a complete ceramic containment chamber?

I came across this material. ...what do you think?

3" x 3/8" Diameter MACOR Rod Form

http://www.technicalproductsinc.com/pdf/macor.pdf

I've been needing a ceramic cup, but didn't want to get set up for making the things. That's all I'd need though. The acrylic mouthpiece seals the cup very well and has never given a problem. BTW, this cartomizer is easier and quicker to refill with juice than any of the ones I have seen on the market.

I never heard of MACOR. It may be exactly what I've been looking for. I'll have to get some and give it a try. Thanks.

 

[zoiDman]

I've been needing a ceramic cup, but didn't want to get set up for making the things. That's all I'd need though. The acrylic mouthpiece seals the cup very well and has never given a problem. BTW, this cartomizer is easier and quicker to refill with juice than any of the ones I have seen on the market.

I never heard of MACOR. It may be exactly what I've been looking for. I'll have to get some and give it a try. Thanks.

There are Many types of Machinable Ceramics.

The thing that caught my eye about MACOR is it's supposed to have 0% Porosity.

It's probably too Expensive to be used in a Production Environment but a Nice Choice for Proto-Type Atty Components.

---

Good to see you Br. And good to see that you still have your hand in the Carto Game.

 

[br5495]

There are Many types of Machinable Ceramics.

The thing that caught my eye about MACOR is it's supposed to have 0% Porosity.

It's probably too Expensive to be used in a Production Environment but a Nice Choice for Proto-Type Atty Components.

---

Good to see you Br. And good to see that you still have your hand in the Carto Game.

dadgumit, you should have told me about all them machinable ceramics ages ago, heheh. Then maybe I'd know how to use it by now. I just paid 53 bucks for 12 inches of that stuff and am afraid I'll ruin half of it on one cartomizer.

It's always good seeing you too, man.

 

[zoiDman]

dadgumit, you should have told me about all them machinable ceramics ages ago, heheh. Then maybe I'd know how to use it by now. I just paid 53 bucks for 12 inches of that stuff and am afraid I'll ruin half of it on one cartomizer.

It's always good seeing you too, man.

To be honest with you, I had kinda forgot about it myself. LOL

I think there are some Machining Guides for how to cut MACOR. I'll poke around and see if I can find one.

Good you see you too Br. I don't see many of the Old Crowd much anymore.