Ecigs have been banned?

[Jman8]

First post here on ECF, and would like to note that I did my submission yesterday to the FDA docket thing that is the talk of the day in political world of vaping.

I'm yet to see language of eCigs being banned, up for being banned, and/or might be banned pretty soon. I think such a spin on matters is disingenuous, even if later down the road that proves to be the case. I feel somewhat strongly about this, but do welcome links to sites where I can see these proposals for eCigs being banned. So far, I am not seeing that, and instead seeing lots of paranoia around this in way that makes us (vapers) look like addicts in need of some serious (professional) treatment. Trying to justify our own desires to self medicate.

If links are produced where I can see language that says 'eCigs are being proposed for banning' and that looks viable, I will gladly come back to this thread and update my thoughts and words on this matter. Until then, it is hard to join the 'fight' when that comes off a bit delusional in terms of what 'the other side' is actually openly discussing.

I do believe I approach the issue (the fight) a bit differently than vast majority, but think there are others like me, and that the ultimate goal of all of us is virtually the same. Some of the goals that are just before that ultimate goal may be vastly different among those of us who 'fight together on the ultimate issue.'

That ultimate goal / issue to me is, in sound bite terms, freedom to use nicotine products in way that is most sensible to the user. I'm compelled to add just slightly to that with concept of, 'most sensible to the user, in light of all known information regarding usage and perceived harms.' Yet this idea of 'all known information' and 'perceived harms' is where the other goals get muddied and there could be, plausibly, division within the ranks (of vapers, nicotine users).

Anyway, while I'm saying a lot in this introductory post, I am mostly just asking for links to whatever online resources are freely available to the public and that convey, in no uncertain terms, this notion that eCigs and ecig related products are soon to be banned (by the FDA). Thank you for whatever assistance you may provide on that request.

 

[ClippinWings]

Why did you choose that subject?

it doesn't seem to match the content of your post.

 

[Jman8]

I'm questioning this notion that eCigs are up for being banned.

 

[markdm4805]

Its not that E cigs are being banned. Nor is anyone saying that. The FDA did try to ban them a couple of years ago but thats not whats being debated this time. What is being discussed is a ban on any devices introduced after 2007. That would be all mods clearos tank systems etc. Think back to the very first e cigs and cigalikes. As well as all e liquids not pre sealed in cartomizers. Also any new products will have to be approved by the FDA. Like medicines this bodes to be a lengthy and expensive process. This would drive every small business including 100% of vendors here on ECF out of business and leave big tobacco as our main supplier. For many of us on this forum it might as well be a ban on E Cigs.

 

[Jman8]

Its not that E cigs are being banned. Nor is anyone saying that.

I believe people are saying this. I observe people saying this on vaping forums. I could start on this forum and provide evidence for that if desired?

The FDA did try to ban them a couple of years ago but thats not whats being debated this time. What is being discussed is a ban on any devices introduced after 2007. That would be all mods clearos tank systems etc. Think back to the very first e cigs and cigalikes. As well as all e liquids not pre sealed in cartomizers. Also any new products will have to be approved by the FDA. Like medicines this bodes to be a lengthy and expensive process. This would drive every small business including 100% of vendors here on ECF out of business and leave big tobacco as our main supplier. For many of us on this forum it might as well be a ban on E Cigs.

I disagree with the last statement and think the future of vaping is very promising / good reason to be optimistic. With that said, I think engaging in debate and constructive dialogue with the FDA is something to continue to do. Equating the FDA to a boogeyman who seeks to ban eCig products from the market is, as I stated earlier, disingenuous. Furthermore, even if this alleged boogeyman had that sort of power / jurisdiction (which I believe they do), I still think future of vaping is very promising / good reason to be optimistic. That the market may drastically change in the near future could occur even if no boogeyman / FDA were around to influence that process.

We vapers are pretty much taking care of that all on our own.

 

[Cloud Wizard]

A Google search for "e-cigarette ban" returns over 8.5M results. First hits was this: New York Moves Towards Total E-Cigarette Ban

Just for clarity, is there an agenda here or do you feel like folks are over the top for being concerned?

 

[supergerbil]

Just for clarity, is there an agenda here or do you feel like folks are over the top for being concerned?

I'd like to hear an answer to that as well.

 

[Jman8]

Just for clarity, is there an agenda here or do you feel like folks are over the top for being concerned?

Yes to both.

Agenda was already stated previously when I mentioned ultimate goal.
This thread specifically deals with my feeling like folks are over the top in their concern and in my case, the desire to understand where notion that FDA is moving towards banning eCig related products.

Btw, thank you for assisting me in getting to 5 posts or more, while not providing direct links to the main inquiry of this thread.

 

[mitzeli]

I think the point of our comments to the FDA is that we would like our opions to count towards the new regulations being made. I am sure that e cig safety is a goal and want to be a part of legally defining what that is. Since nic is a drug with much documented information FDA's regulations make sense. I enjoy the freedom to DIY and vape however I please. It has removed me from a horrible 37 year bad addition to harmful smoking. I just want to make sure that their new regulations do not hinder the average person from buying nic liquid without a prescription at an affordable price.

 

[Cloud Wizard]

...I am mostly just asking for links to whatever online resources are freely available to the public and that convey, in no uncertain terms, this notion that eCigs and eCig related products are soon to be banned. Thank you for whatever assistance you may provide on that request.

Actually, I think I explicitly answered your question and provided exactly what you asked for...
You're welcome for the 5 posts.

 

[denali_41]

first off,,there is a lot of fear mongering and over top mentality here to begin,so a lot of crap gets blown out of proportion on a daily basis !!

the way i understand the "supposed ban" is not really a ban, but put e-cigs into a different category so the FDA has complete control over them ,,thereby restricting the access by the general public by making them prescription type devices

 

[Jman8]

Actually, I think I explicitly answered your question and provided exactly what you asked for...

Where have you provided links to the FDA's proposed ruling to ban eCigs and/or eCig related products?

 

[Bucky Goldstein]

Where have you provided links to the FDA's proposed ruling to ban eCigs and/or eCig related products?

It's your thread, prove us wrong

 

[Cloud Wizard]

You didn't ask for the FDA's proposed ruling, you asked for any info (see your quote). At the end of the day it's a more complicated issue than lack of an explicit ban. There are political bodies at work, who through legislation/regulation, may make it either process prohibitive or cost prohibitive for a lot of folks to either continue providing or gaining access to what has become an amazingly good way of reducing the negative health affects from smoking.

 

[Jman8]

I think the point of our comments to the FDA is that we would like our opions to count towards the new regulations being made. I am sure that e cig safety is a goal and want to be a part of legally defining what that is. Since nic is a drug with much documented information FDA's regulations make sense. I enjoy the freedom to DIY and vape however I please. It has removed me from a horrible 37 year bad addition to harmful smoking. I just want to make sure that their new regulations do not hinder the average person from buying nic liquid without a prescription at an affordable price.

Underlined emphasis mine - to say I concur with that statement.
I think it likely the FDA is engaged in 'over the top concern' and thus being met with that from addicts with over the top concern on this issue.

I'm not sure how a drug could be effectively regulated and still show up as not being hindered from average person wishing to purchase that drug. In this case that drug is nicotine and is known by many to be the most addictive substance on the planet. Even if that isn't entirely accurate, it is is well known as highly addictive.

While I could go on for another 18 paragraphs about my thoughts on that, I think it is reasonable expectation to have FDA in charge of oversight and regulation of nicotine products, while also (hopefully) being open to ongoing claims and actual experiences of users / former users of nicotine products, especially as it relates to perceived harm.

 

[Wondertwin]

You're saying the response isn't proportional to the threat? I'd disagree, that's respect of the power of the agency we're potentially subject to. Commenting on regulation and keeping people informed with up to date info doesn't strike me as knee jerk or tin-foil hat conspiracy levels of skepticism. I call it being concerned, involved, and active in the fate of something that at it's core is potentially life saving. Sure we enjoy it enough to go to "hobby" levels, but I don't see how that diminishes vaping as a smoking cessation activity; or reduces a vaper to hobbyist collecting "toys."

 

[denali_41]

It's your thread, prove us wrong

one just has to skim this thread to see that !!

 

[Jman8]

You didn't ask for the FDA's proposed ruling, you asked for any info (see your quote). At the end of the day it's a more complicated issue than lack of an explicit ban. There are political bodies at work, who through legislation/regulation, may make it either process prohibitive or cost prohibitive for a lot of folks to either continue providing or gaining access to what has become an amazingly good way of reducing the negative health affects from smoking.

Updated OP to reflect FDA language. Thanks for that point in clarification.
I'm aware of local ordinances, and/or other national governments that have own bans in place for eCigs.

I understand that there other political bodies at work who's primary function is to hinder the intake of nicotine by any user, for any reason, with plausible exception of 'to get off of nicotine once and for all.'

I think some of that work is 'reasonable' given the playing field, while other aspects of that work is 'over the top concern' that can and will be addressed, and is being addressed. Doesn't help, IMO, that some ex-smokers have become anti-smoking nazis, but is part of the playing field and is example of us doing some of this stuff do our own selves.

For me, larger picture is that right now/today, I feel strongly that the market for vaping is doing well and has optimistic future. The unregulated market might be dying out, but I think that was expected by all of us over 18 years old who have been around this issue for more than a week. If not expected, and operating under some rather naive notions of regulation, than I can understand the over the top concerns, but they do show up to me as, based on naivete.

 

[supergerbil]

1) First off the proposed regulations are all about the $$$$; be it loss in tax revenues from decreased cigarette sales, bowing to pressure from NRT companies that experience a drop in sales, or simply another case of the Federal Government search for new sources of revenue.

2) There is no need for FDA regulation. I have yet to see ANY practical examples of why we need the government involved in this industry. (If anyone knows of any please link it. I dont think a good reason exists,)

3) Regulation is about slowly restricting and limiting access over time. We aren't concerned about an outright ban tomorrow but rather a slow decline in access and a debilitating rise in cost.

@OP: You aren't a vaper are you?

 

[Zarapa]

I really think vapers are under scrutiny in the entire world. Many countries already banned e-cigs. It requires action and organization in order to avoid the spread of this paranoid wave against us.