FDA may soon propose regulation that could ban many/most e-cigarette products, eliminate many/most companies

[Bill Godshall]

A major problem with Chapter IX regulations is that they were negotiated and agreed to by CTFK and Philip Morris in 2005 to regulate the existing oligopoly of several very large and wealthy US based tobacco manufacturers.

But the e-cigarette industry (at least for the starter products) is a grassroots US consumer and vendor driven industry with several hundred US based importers that contract with several (or perhaps several dozen) manufacturers in China.

Regarding e-liquid, I don't even know the various source "manufacturers" of e-liquid (but I've heard that some are in China and others are in the US), and it is uncertain how the FDA would attempt (if they apply Chapter IX to e-liquid) to regulate manufacturers and/or importers of e-liquid. While companies that manufacture pure liquid nicotine probably would be considered e-cigarette product manufacturers, it is probable that the FDA would also insist that any company that dilutes the concentration of nicotine in e-liquid (or that adds flavorings to e-liquid containing nicotine) is also a "tobacco manufacturer".

Also, anyone who imports any e-cigarette product from abroad would also have to register with FDA and comply with Chapter IX regulations.

Bottom line is that since Chapter IX was/is a regulatory scheme to regulate an oligopoly of several very large US tobacco manufacturers, the entire e-cigarette industry could be turned upside down very quickly (if FDA proposes/approves of a regulation applying Chapter IX to e-cigarette products containing nicotine), resulting in a few very large corporations (that employ lots of lawyers but that only sell several different prefilled/disposable cartridge products).

 

[Ruppy]

,I would love for someone to illustrate for me how a group of individuals, that were not elected by vote, can make a regulation directly impacting the population. How is that legal and within the confines set forth in the constitution?

I ask myself every day, how the FDA can have so much authority and answer to noone.........

Honestly it just makes me sad..... and not to mention very angry.

Not that I dont love the BS canned replies my "elected" officials send me in response to my constant emails just as much.................

 

[Placebo Effect]

,I would love for someone to illustrate for me how a group of individuals, that were not elected by vote, can make a regulation directly impacting the population. How is that legal and within the confines set forth in the constitution?

I ask myself every day, how the FDA can have so much authority and answer to noone.........

Honestly it just makes me sad..... and not to mention very angry.

Not that I dont love the BS canned replies my "elected" officials send me in response to my constant emails just as much.................

How far are you from Wheeling? There's a vote on (I believe) December 13th to institute a smoking ban (including e-cigs), and we could use another speaker.

 

[Bill Godshall]

Following up on my post at 121 of this thread, please note that Section 900(20) of the Tobacco Control Act defines tobacco product manufacturer as:

The term 'tobacco product manufacturer' means any person, including any repacker or relabeler, who --
(A) manufactures, fabricates, assembles, processes, or labels a tobacco product; or
(B) imports a finished tobacco product for sale or distribution in the United States.

So if the FDA proposes/approves a regulation to apply Chapter IX to e-cigarette products that contain nicotine, virtually every e-cigarette vendor in the US would be required to comply with Chapter IX regulations that apply to tobacco product manufacturers.

If that occurs, the vast majority of e-cigarette vendors in the US would probably go out of business, while just several (or perhaps even several dozen) of the large companies would hire a team of lawyers and rush to comply with the many different FDA regs (which would increase their product's prices).

And that could devastate the e-liquid industry.

 

[FreakyStylie]

I hate to hit the like button on that post, because I don't like it, but it shows the importance of what is happening.

 

[sweetz]

Please forgive my paranoia on this issue, but if a person were going to say.....take out a loan and stock up on a $%&@load of nicotine juice, and wanted to do it before these taxes hit, what would you estimate the deadline for such an action to be complete in order to avoid these (several expletives deleted) regulations??

Do we have time to wait for income tax, do you think?

you know...not that I'm planning on this or anything!

 

[wfx]

ok this may sound naive or crazy or what have you but here it goes. A class action suit against the FDA stating that their actions will cause harm to the population by effectively forcing people who could not give up their nicotine addiction by "traditonal" means to go back to smoking analogs. Their actions would also force MANY small business to close up shop.
Just my two cents.

not crazy. action against the FDA strikes me as quite viable.

but you need to find the right plaintiffs. 20+ year smokers with a long history of failed attempts to quit on the 'sanctioned' cessation technologies. and demonstrable health improvements after taking up vaping. and for good measure add the vendors who would go out of business. both groups are right here on ECF.

an outright ban on the sale nicotine liquid could suffer judicial repeal on two grounds. first it harms those businesses by restraining the sale of a legal drug. second the harm to the health of those folks that have only two options: smoking or vaping.

at first glance the tobacco control act seems to give the FDA free rein to shutter the nicotine liquid industry. (Regulation of E-Cigarettes and Other Tobacco Products). but perhaps the law and/or implementing regulations 'as applied' can be challenged on the basis of 'harm reduction'. i've read some great arguments along those lines in this forum.

what concerns me is the precedent from banning nicotine water a few years ago. does anyone have the history on that one? who challenged it and why did the ban succeed?

(IANAL)

 

[Ruppy]

How far are you from Wheeling? There's a vote on (I believe) December 13th to institute a smoking ban (including e-cigs), and we could use another speaker.

Its about 2 hours away. I actually looked at trying to go up. Unfortunately we are catering a Christmas party that day. Shame it wasnt the following week. Im off for 3 weeks starting the 16th.... Ultimately legislation in that area has a huge impact on us as many cities in the state tend to follow suit regarding these types of regulation. The MOVHD has been a bit cautious lately however as they have been in court multiple times over their current smoke free regulations.

 

[FreakyStylie]

Meh, I've been studying their defences, and a small, one-man fighter could penetrate the outer defences ... yada yada ... creating a chain reaction that would destroy the whole battle station.

But seriously ... it is conceivable that one small event could gain the attention of the press and people, exposing the way they are, say ... wasting tax money (in an economy such as this) of hard working American citizens in order to fight a group of fellow citizens who aren't harming anybody. Or that they need to be investigated for working for the people they are supposed to protect us from, much in the same way ATF got caught smuggling weapons. (Or something along those lines.)

Sometimes a small battle wins the war, or at least tips the scales in the proper direction.

 

[house mouse]

So how will this effect hardware? Carts, attys, tanks, mods, etc. I know the liquid is firmly in their crosshairs, and I've stocked up sufficiently to do an end run around that, if need be, but do I need to start laying in a large supply of attys and carts too? Or will it be kind of a domino effect? The liquid gets forced off the market, resulting in a drop in users, which results in a drop in demand of hardware, which pretty much forces them out of business too?



Or will the hardware be treated no differently than tobacco pipes, rolling papers and lighters are now?

 

[asti]

What is the reasoning for only accepting products similar or equivalent to 2007 and prior? It is obvious, as with all kinds of products, they evolve and improve. What is so special about that 2/15/2007 date and the products available at that time?

I think it was involving a court case... details are fuzzy in my swiss cheese memory atm, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[samuelmunro]

could the answer be as easy as a strength in numbers game, it's been tried with the ECA (what ever happened with them?) If all vendors stateside, and I mean all, band together to create a consortium of sorts then they will make a voice that may be loud enough to be listened to.

I've also thought while I'm writing can you petition this statute to go to a public referendum, if such a thing exists in the states.

 

[samuelmunro]

or motion that the electronic cigarette is a different species entirely and should be regulated as such, not by the FDA but by CASAA

 

[Lady M]

Now their is an Idea,the FDA seems to be of the bullying type. Leave us alone

 

[laks]

Typical as expected right? Their doing the same thing with snus, IMO another good product to switch to. Swedish snus is regulated by their equivalent of our FDA as a food product and because of this the carinogen levels are as low as 1/20 of some American products (smokes,dip,snus). But recently they've put a $15 import tax on overseas snus products mainly for this reason alone.

I know it's a little off topic (talking about snus), but it's another good example of unneeded regulation just to fill big tobacco and big pharma pockets.

 

[Nicko]

I suggest voting in Ron Paul. He intends to -

* Stop the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) from interfering with Americans’ knowledge of and access to dietary supplements and alternative treatments.

 

[vapordraggin101]

I suggest voting in Ron Paul. He intends to -

* Stop the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) from interfering with Americans’ knowledge of and access to dietary supplements and alternative treatments.

I agree, go Ron

 

[robblundberg]

y is someone not calling rush limbaugh or however you spell his name to do an interview on his show? there's your media attention right there.

and yes i'm serious. y not? we're grasping at straws here aren't we?

 

[FreakyStylie]

I'm thinking more along the lines of one of the dozens of people I've met who were told they had 6 months to live due to complications from smoking, who started vaping, and are now living past their expiration dates.

That is something the media will exploit across the board. That is something that would make the FDA eat their ... well, it would make them look bad. And, with a little luck, they would stay under the microscope with us.

 

[TheZig]

thought you guys would like to see this http://www.vapersclub.com/FDAconcedes.pdf