Fsusa to start spectro-analysis of e-juice?

[StormFinch]

If he's using an FDA approved lab I hope it's not the same one that did the tainted test the FDA is using the results for to try to put a bad light on ecigs.

I looked that up one time, it was the FDA's own lab and scientists that did those particular tests. Go figure.

 

[Panini]

I'm I totally missing something?

It seems extremely odd to me that there are people (who compare vaping against the toxins in cigarettes) who would actually oppose analysis of juice. Really? Or turn a good thing into something else? Really? I guess hypocrisy knows no boundaries.

I don't know if you're referring to me, but I don't oppose analysis of the liquid. I'm all for it. I just think this move is in direct opposition to the stance previously taken by the supplier...with zero explanation behind it, apologies for downplaying previous health concerns, etc.

Sorry, but it's weird.

 

[shanagan]

I don't know if you're referring to me, but I don't oppose analysis of the liquid. I'm all for it. I just think this move is in direct opposition to the stance previously taken by the supplier...with zero explanation behind it, apologies for downplaying previous health concerns, etc.

Sorry, but it's weird.

It's just quirky, Panini.

And for the love of, won't you please think of the children?

 

[TJVapes]

This isn't the first time liquids have been analyzed. This is good. I'm glad someone reinitiated testing of the liquids. I'm not even sure if I'm linking the right thread here... laziness, but there is at least some testing at one point that was done. I'm not sure if they actually did the exact same, bit if I recall correctly at one point it was.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ing/2716-e-liquid-lab-toxicology-reports.html

 

[markarich159]

My limited understanding of spectrum analysis is that it uses light to identify and analyze known elements. In theory, it can do exactly what you think - show all the components and their concentrations in liquids. I can't imagine it's that cheap to do, and I have no idea how accurate it is.

There is no such thing as "Spectro Analysis". I believe the technique he is referring to is spectral or spectrum analysis(in which a relatively pure sample's emission or absorption spectra of a particular range of the electromagnetic spectrum is analyzed). It is not an appropriate analytical technique to seperate and then perform a qualitative/quantitative analysis the components of a mixture of several organic liquids. The appropriate and analytical technique of choice required to do this would be GC/MS(gas chromatography/mass spectrometry) or possibly LC/MS(Liquid chromatography/mass spectrometry).

 

[markarich159]

Where is this claim coming from? I think it is BS! Can anyone provide a link where FSUSA stands behind any of the claims made here? I didn't think so. Don't fall for these sneaky smear campaigns. Why aren't the mods paying attention?

I would tend to agree with you to the extent that FSUSA cannot stand behind any of the claims made(even though FSUSA clearly DID make the claims in their subforum). The analytical method mentioned doesn't exist & the closest semantic match is an inappropriate methodology for the type of analysis required. Nothing besides vague plans are noted with no specific names of any laboratories mentioned. It's also extremely odd that the same vendor had a diametrically opposed stance on this issue(which was vociferously defended) a short month ago. My guess would be that it's some type of marketing ploy(considering the above) having to do with the recent amount of attention that the eliquid testing/disclosure/diacetyl issue has garnered on the forum. The one good thing that I do see, possibly, coming from this is that another supplier(or several) will see this and actually look into legitimate testing OR several suppliers may see this and ban together(starting the beginning of the long awaited US trade association much like ECITA in the UK) to root out suppliers that make untoward & provocative marketing claims that cannot be verified. Luckily other similar claims made easily can.

 

[Goldenkobold]

You know, I firmly plan one day to review some FSUSA juices....but this company always has drama going on about it one way or another....fanboys and antifangirls...and then they hired mistress nomad? Haha they may not disclose poisonous chemicals but they sure do know how to run a P.R. campaign.

 

[Edwv30]

There is no such thing as "Spectro Analysis". I believe the technique he is referring to is spectral or spectrum analysis(in which a relatively pure samples emission or absorption spectra of a particular range of the electromagnetic spectra is analyzed). It is not an appropriate analytical technique to seperate and then perform a qualitative/quantitative analysis the components of a mixture of several organic liquids. The appropriate and analytical technique of choice required to do this would be GC/MS(gas chromatography/mass spectrometry) or possibly LC/MS(Liquid chromatography/mass spectrometry).

Thank you Markarich159! Okay...something isn't right here. Wouldn't the lab,(that David is supposedly in contact with), have let him know that spectrum analysis isn't the correct testing procedure? They should have at least given him the correct name of spectral\spectrum analysis and\or its spelling? Yeah...these are huge red flags to me.

 

[warbdan]

I can't wait to see how this pans out.

 

[markarich159]

Wouldn't the lab,(that David is supposedly in contact with), have let him know that spectrum analysis isn't the correct testing procedure? They should have at least given him the correct name of spectral\spectrum analysis and\or its spelling?

One would certainly think so; or one would certainly expect that the correct info would have been verified, checked and re-checked before such a monumental declaration of this nature would be issued; given the ramifications such a declaration implies to all other eliquid vendors and the industry in general.

 

[Lyndagayle]

There is no such thing as "Spectro Analysis". I believe the technique he is referring to is spectral or spectrum analysis(in which a relatively pure sample's emission or absorption spectra of a particular range of the electromagnetic spectrum is analyzed). It is not an appropriate analytical technique to seperate and then perform a qualitative/quantitative analysis the components of a mixture of several organic liquids. The appropriate and analytical technique of choice required to do this would be GC/MS(gas chromatography/mass spectrometry) or possibly LC/MS(Liquid chromatography/mass spectrometry).

Sounds like some lab could be taking David and his company for a ride, a very expensive one at that. Be careful about sinking your 30k plus the donations coming in from your customers. That would be a hard blow to recover from.

 

[Zelphie]

Thank you Mark for pointing out the most obvious, ridiculous, and amusing event that seems to be over looked in a way that strikes me as delusional. Yes, how is it that FS could come to care so very deeply for our health in that short month? Wasn’t FS the opinion leader in thinking it was merely a baseless overreaction? And now they are so very, genuinely, deeply moved by these concerns. Um....., nothing out of the ordinary there! Zero red flags! This is so amusing and just plain,……stupid, it’s just mind-blowingly ......ed. FS almost had me convinced to give them my money when they didn’t care about health issue but now they seem so overly genuine in such a dramatic fashion, I dare they’ve become hysterical lol. All a person can do is pour money into this mass mental illness fest and hope the blinding red flags dim down.
No, I’m not against testing. I’m against meaningless testing, that is unless FS can provide some real information here.

I would tend to agree with you to the extent that FSUSA cannot stand behind any of the claims made(even though FSUSA clearly DID make the claims in their subforum). The analytical method mentioned doesn't exist & the closest semantic match is an inappropriate methodology for the type of analysis required. Nothing besides vague plans are noted with no specific names of any laboratories mentioned. It's also extremely odd that the same vendor had a diametrically opposed stance on this issue(which was vociferously defended) a short month ago. My guess would be that it's some type of marketing ploy(considering the above) having to do with the recent amount of attention that the eliquid testing/disclosure/diacetyl issue has garnered on the forum. The one good thing that I do see, possibly, coming from this is that another supplier(or several) will see this and actually look into legitimate testing OR several suppliers may see this and ban together(starting the beginning of the long awaited US trade association much like ECITA in the UK) to root out suppliers that make untoward & provocative marketing claims that cannot be verified. Luckily other similar claims made easily can.

 

[Zelphie]

I think I get it, is it to "prove" diacetyl is safe for inhalation? I cant see any other logical motivation for FS. How would that happen by getting MSDS of flavorings that aready exist (cept for PA maybe) while using the wrong test at that???

 

[FreakyStylie]

I don't know if you're referring to me, but I don't oppose analysis of the liquid. I'm all for it. I just think this move is in direct opposition to the stance previously taken by the supplier...with zero explanation behind it, apologies for downplaying previous health concerns, etc.

Sorry, but it's weird.

I wasn't referring to anybody in particular. I am just commenting to the overall "feel" of this thread. It feels like typical drama found in any high school. It's the typical, "damned if you do; damned if you don't" scenario.

I'll spare the book I was writing, but I will sum up by saying that this industry is still in its infancy. The industry is still growing, and if anybody has a chemistry degree, or a better solution, then they should start their perfect business.

Anybody can be an armchair quarterback, few can actually be the quarterback, and nobody can be a perfect quarterback.

 

[Latakia]

I wasn't referring to anybody in particular. I am just commenting to the overall "feel" of this thread. It feels like typical drama found in any high school. It's the typical, "damned if you do; damned if you don't" scenario.

I'll spare the book I was writing, but I will sum up by saying that this industry is still in its infancy. The industry is still growing, and if anybody has a chemistry degree, or a better solution, then they should start their perfect business.

Anybody can be an armchair quarterback, few can actually be the quarterback, and nobody can be a perfect quarterback.

The "truth" that I see VERY plainly in this and other threads is several of the same posters jumping in to denigrate FUSA no matter what. Whether it's about shipping time, or customer service, or quality/content of liguids or motives for doing what is obviously, in the case of independent testing, the right thing I can name some of the people who will be bashing FUSA BEFORE I EVEN READ THE THREAD! I don't know if their problem with FUSA is personal or business, but when I see the same posters egging each other on, in bashing ONE supplier, in multiple threads, I have to question both their motives and their credibility!

 

[Papa Lazarou]

I think I get it, is it to "prove" diacetyl is safe for inhalation? I cant see any other logical motivation for FS. How would that happen by getting MSDS of flavorings that aready exist (cept for PA maybe) while using the wrong test at that???

It would do nothing of the sort. All this type of analysis does is tell you what chemicals are in a tested substance. Here is an example of one report on some Chinese e-liquid - http://www.e-cigs.co.uk/docs/E249A.pdf

 

[Edwv30]

One would certainly think so; or one would certainly expect that the correct info would have been verified, checked and re-checked before such a monumental declaration of this nature would be issued; given the ramifications such a declaration implies to all other eliquid vendors and the industry in general.

These results are from GC\MS testing...exactly what Markarich159 said should be used in this type of testing. As noted earlier, there is no such thing as "spectro-analysis" at least when it comes to lab testing. This whole FSUSA thing is highly suspect to say the least.

 

[FreakyStylie]

It would do nothing of the sort. All this type of analysis does is tell you what chemicals are in a tested substance. Here is an example of one report on some Chinese e-liquid - http://www.e-cigs.co.uk/docs/E249A.pdf

I like the example used. It has vanillin in it.

 

[Edwv30]

Also, government agencies are being tossed around, (i.e. OSHA), in an attempt to deceive members and "prove" the safety of these juices when that simply isn't the case. These agencies are not going to be happy when they find out. Talk about a setback...FSUSA is going to hurt everyone ...in a BIG way...if they continue on this path.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

I like the example used. It has vanillin in it.

As do many e-liquids