Gorilla Juice DIY clone : Feedback needed.

[Levitas]

I know nicotine is supposed to be odorless and tasteless, but, when it comes to ejuice, I find it neither. I've been vaping 0 nic for about 4 months now and the flavors I used to enjoy at 6mg, I now cannot tolerate.
I really can taste the effect on the juice of a mere 6mg/ml nicotine

Yes, but is that contributed solely to that lack of nicotine, or could there also be other contributing factors?

Also, I don't doubt it has some effect, I just don't believe the effect to be monumental. I know that plain ole nicotine in VG tastes peppery. And even with lighter flavors, the nicotine taste can come out a little more.

In this scenario, I don't think that AV is purposely adding nicotine, rather, I don't believe that they're giving false information about having a flavor that has nicotine enough to be unable to sell their tobacco flavors without it. The earlier discussion was that AV might be adding nicotine because the overall recipe wouldn't be the same without it. I don't believe this to be the case, based on what I've read, and my experience with tasting through out the months. Just my opinion though.

I still believe it to be that extract, or flavoring that is the missing element. This juice has been available since 2009. With these clues, surely it cannot be too hard to point our fingers in the right direction.

 

[glassmanoak]

Don Quixote,
Do you realize what a monumental task you're facing? IF you knew all the ingredients (say 5) and the total flavoring percentage (say 20% flavoring), You are facing thousands and thousands of trials, only ONE of which is THE formula!
And you are guessing both the ingredients and the flavor percentage.. IMPOSSIBLE!
.....Instead why not do this? Mix several different batches of juice with a few flavorings you detect in the juice, find a few you like.. add nicotine and call it a day IF you have a pleasant juice you enjoy vaping?
..... Don't try to re-discover the Coca-Cola formula.. Rather, just mix a beverage that tastes good and satisfies your palate and call it Levi's BoBo and sit back and enjoy vaping!
.....Your stomach lining and your brain will feel MUCH better!

 

[Levitas]

Lol, thanks.

I am able to be content with something that is close, or just something that I can enjoy all day. I don't absolutely need for it to be 100% accurate. But why not give it a shot? Not to be completely accurate, rather, be as close as possible?

I am not using any expertise of mixing to figure out the recipe, though the experience is helping along the way. I am just putting clues together based off of what I've read.

No biggie. I will still continue to try, even though it's a headache at times, it's also fun for me. I am enjoying other recipes while playing with this one. Unfortunately, there isn't really anything I've created that can satisfy me like Boba's did so far. So, why wouldn't I chase after the pot of gold?

 

[glassmanoak]

I totally agree with you! Sometimes the quest is as important as the prize!

I'm sure you are learning LOTS!!

 

[graffinfected]

it sounds like (to me) you guys are getting closer and closer...

if it wasent for this thread i would have had a hard time looking for a site that sells tobacco leaves for extracting.. i think we are learning alot from this little investigation you guys have going on.. and its good on the brain..lol i want to be a part of it just as much as levi is.... im just waiting to see if i can get my hands on some GJ so i can put in my 2 cents and see if i can contribute.. but im just waiting to see when i have a little change sitting around that i can use for myself to go ahead and place an order. till then i will have to sit back and see what these guys come up with..

why cant we just send it to a lab and see what they tell us is in it??? haha.. is that even possible?

 

[Levitas]

why cant we just send it to a lab and see what they tell us is in it??? haha.. is that even possible?

I wanted to do this. Do you know how to google search for a lab that does flavor analysis? I had little luck, lol.

 

[mwa102464]

Question: When you're extracting from straight tobacco leaves, are you extracting the nicotine along with it? I noticed that the mixture you used on your extraction already had 12mg/ml nicotine. If you are extracting more nicotine from the leaves themselves, how do you know how much nicotine you have as a final product? Do you use nicotine test kits (the blue, et al)?

There isnt that much more Nic through the extraction of the whole cured leaves, maybe a tad, its mostly all the flavor, I'ver tested my final Nic base with the Kit that is out, the Flavor from the different Tobacco leaves is what you get, and each type is absolutely different, and when mixing 2-3 different kind of leaves you can really come up with some excellent extractions, and use them just like this or as a base like I said previously, using them as your base and mixing some other flavoring really makes it shine too Levitas.!

 

[Levitas]

There isnt that much more Nic through the extraction of the whole cured leaves, maybe a tad, its mostly all the flavor, I'ver tested my final Nic base with the Kit that is out, the Flavor from the different Tobacco leaves is what you get, and each type is absolutely different, and when mixing 2-3 different kind of leaves you can really come up with some excellent extractions, and use them just like this or as a base like I said previously, using them as your base and mixing some other flavoring really makes it shine too Levitas.!

You're making me want to try this... my wallet hates you.

 

[mwa102464]

Thank you so much MWA. I remember your post a few months back, and I would hate to try to find it again!!

Lev I think he is saying he sprays the leaf down, dries it, and puts it in 12nic straight juice and lets it steep for 3 weeks to a month. The tobacco leaf probably adds only a little nicotine to it, but not enough for it to really matter.

Then once he gets the base he adds flavorings.


MWA, do you pass the steeped stuff through cheesecloth or anything to get the leafy stuff out of the juice b4 vaping it?

Which 2 would you suggest I try to start with? Which 2 are your favorites?



I'm thinking about getting the Canadian Virginia flue cured, and the Brightleaf flue cured - sweet.

You can use the cheesecloth or other filtering meathods but I dont even bother myself,,I get very little bit of sediment, I crumble the leaves into buds when I stuff the bottles.,, If your planing on doing this buy yourself 4-5 different types of the Whole Tobacco leaves and mix the 4-5 different ones separate in say 15-30ML GLASS Bottles, this way you can test each one to see what your flavors are like then mix 1-2 or even 3 together of what you think you may like, do some testing, I spent quite a few hours doing this, what I like you may not and vice versa just like everything else so this is the best advice I can give you, some are really good just by them selves like the canadian Virginia Flue Cured, some are terrific mixed, take your time with this, and let each steep for 3-4 weeks BakuPeg

 

[mwa102464]

Right, well, if that's the case, then I don't know if this is what I am looking for, per say, on my quest in finding that mystery flavor that explains why AV cannot offer 0mg tobacco fluids. That is, of course, depending on how much nicotine actually becomes extracted with this process. AV only goes as low as 6mg. That leaves me curious as to if this is by their choice, or of no choice due to an inability to cut it any lower.

Aside of this, I am having immense difficulty finding any source to purchase tobacco extracts/flavorings with nicotine already infused. I honestly believe I saw something not too long ago about this. Still looking.

Personally my guess is Ben doesn't offer the 0mg simply because the Nic he uses in his mix is part of his recipe and without it, it just isn't the same, just my guess Levitas.

 

[mwa102464]

If you guys want to do this you should each pick say 3-4 1/4LB's and then trade with each other, a 1/4LB will go a ways so this way you each will end up with like 6-8 different ones instead of just 3-4, just a suggestion, and only buy the 1/4LB samples that are listed on the lower left side of the front page,,, no need to buy the bigger amount to get started and taking half of the 3-4 you get and sending to your buddy and him sending you his 3-4 will also help you, this is a good way to go if you two are both going to do it then do this..

 

[Levitas]

Personally my guess is Ben doesn't offer the 0mg simply because the Nic he uses in his mix is part of his recipe and without it, it just isn't the same, just my guess Levitas.

Well, I only thought that it was a flavor he was using because of this: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/alien-visions-e-juice/179588-0mg-nicotine-juice.html

Ben stated that the flavorings he uses for their tobaccos contain nicotine. Unless this isn't the truth, I believe it to be vital in creating a similar Boba's Bounty or Gorilla Juice.

 

[mwa102464]

Ive been looking at the little dried leaves all day.. I put in an order for the burley sample, Canadian Virginia Flue cured and the Brightleaf flue cured sweet. Going to get a few large bottles and steep them well. Lets see what the Mad scientist Peg can make up.. MoHahahahahaha

My husband is going to think I am insane....


*- We think we have most of BB / GJ thought up. Just need the tobacco base. Going to see what I can do with this stuff. Even if its not a clone It'll be good. I'll let you know.

That Canadian Virginia flue cured is very good, take that and add about 25% of the burley to it,,,, also even better is if you add like 25% Havana to the Canadian Virginia, this combo I really like and use for one of my bases, then I add some Vanilla cream flavoring to it to make one juice and it's outstanding.

 

[digunderground]

Don Quixote,
Do you realize what a monumental task you're facing? IF you knew all the ingredients (say 5) and the total flavoring percentage (say 20% flavoring), You are facing thousands and thousands of trials, only ONE of which is THE formula!
And you are guessing both the ingredients and the flavor percentage.. IMPOSSIBLE!
.....Instead why not do this? Mix several different batches of juice with a few flavorings you detect in the juice, find a few you like.. add nicotine and call it a day IF you have a pleasant juice you enjoy vaping?
..... Don't try to re-discover the Coca-Cola formula.. Rather, just mix a beverage that tastes good and satisfies your palate and call it Levi's BoBo and sit back and enjoy vaping!
.....Your stomach lining and your brain will feel MUCH better!

Thats how this all started out... I made this by accident trying to make a "robust" base for another liquid that wasnt a majority tobacco, but had some of the flavor aspects. I agree completely, I'd like to tweak and make something even better, but an exact duplicate I actually dont want... well personally. I honestly find OGJ to be lacking in TH (even at 18mg).

I have experimented steeping tobacco, I have a very good friend that grows tobacco of all kinds. I do like the flavor of steeped tobacco leaves, but I'm very unsure of nicotine percentage, and other harmful chemicals that may be extracted. I dont love the idea of using commercial tobacco extracts, but I feel they are ** probably ** a little more scientific than my methods.. hahah

So all the orders are on their way.. I lost composure and ordered a bunch of other stuff including 3-4 other tobaccos etc. Ill report back when I get all of it in and have a chance to mix a 100% vg batch as well as my standard mix.

Personally my guess is Ben doesn't offer the 0mg simply because the Nic he uses in his mix is part of his recipe and without it, it just isn't the same, just my guess Levitas.

The more I think about this, you may be right. My 0 nic mixes taste completely different than ones with nic. The nic liquids I use are literally flavorless (as flavorless as ive ever had, the only way I can tell the difference is the buzz from vaping it. I think nicotine in the liquid has a profound impact on the maturing and commingling of flavors. 2 bottles mixed with and without nicotine steeped for the same amount of time will have significantly different flavors and profiles. I have noticed that chocolates and some fruits shine over other flavors when nicotine is in the liquid.. great example is green apple, Ive mixed it in tobacco mixes and with nic the "sharpness" comes out better and no nic, it kind of just blends in. soooooo... MWA, you might just be right on this.

 

[mwa102464]

Well, I only thought that it was a flavor he was using because of this: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/alien-visions-e-juice/179588-0mg-nicotine-juice.html

Ben stated that the flavorings he uses for their tobaccos contain nicotine. Unless this isn't the truth, I believe it to be vital in creating a similar Boba's Bounty or Gorilla Juice.

Agreed, I think you misunderstood what I stating,,,

 

[mwa102464]

Thats how this all started out... I made this by accident trying to make a "robust" base for another liquid that wasnt a majority tobacco, but had some of the flavor aspects. I agree completely, I'd like to tweak and make something even better, but an exact duplicate I actually dont want... well personally. I honestly find OGJ to be lacking in TH (even at 18mg).

I have experimented steeping tobacco, I have a very good friend that grows tobacco of all kinds. I do like the flavor of steeped tobacco leaves, but I'm very unsure of nicotine percentage, and other harmful chemicals that may be extracted. I dont love the idea of using commercial tobacco extracts, but I feel they are ** probably ** a little more scientific than my methods.. hahah

So all the orders are on their way.. I lost composure and ordered a bunch of other stuff including 3-4 other tobaccos etc. Ill report back when I get all of it in and have a chance to mix a 100% vg batch as well as my standard mix.



The more I think about this, you may be right. My 0 nic mixes taste completely different than ones with nic. The nic liquids I use are literally flavorless (as flavorless as ive ever had, the only way I can tell the difference is the buzz from vaping it. I think nicotine in the liquid has a profound impact on the maturing and commingling of flavors. 2 bottles mixed with and without nicotine steeped for the same amount of time will have significantly different flavors and profiles. I have noticed that chocolates and some fruits shine over other flavors when nicotine is in the liquid.. great example is green apple, Ive mixed it in tobacco mixes and with nic the "sharpness" comes out better and no nic, it kind of just blends in. soooooo... MWA, you might just be right on this.

Yup,, its kind of why opposite flavors at times make some very dam good recipes, like a sweet and a tobacco, a fruit with menthol or Tobacco,,, some times odd things can really taste good that you never would think they would, but they do, like a sweet tobacco ( Canadian Virginia ) =with say a Havana make a good Mix

 

[Levitas]

Agreed, I think you misunderstood what I stating,,,

Ah, I see. You're saying the nic is the missing flavor I'm searching for?

Edit: Alright, I'll admit it, I'm confused.

I'm looking for a flavoring that has nic already in it. Or, I am looking for nicotine, which is the flavor I am searching for?

Someone PM'd me earlier and mentioned whole tobacco alkaloids. Is this what you speak of? Have they been around since '09?

I need some clarification, else I am going to continue to run in circles looking for an answer that may not even exist.

Do you believe that Ben extracts his own tobacco flavoring, MWA? Or that he purchases extracted tobacco with nic already in it?

 

[mwa102464]

ah, i see. You're saying the nic is the missing flavor i'm searching for?

yes...............................

Edit: not taking about whole tobacco alkaloids though, this is something totally different and made with a totally different chemical to achieve. Steeping Tobacco leaves in VG/PG/Nic is also totally different. As far as what Ben said about his Nic coming with flavoring in it = I think it is how he mixes his base for his tobacco flavored juice like the Boba's/Gorilla that make up these two juices, so in order to make them you wouldnt be able to get these in a 0mg Levitas,,,, Like say if he adds a Turkish flavor to his Nic to make his base up for these or anything else, without this then you couldnt get the Boba's or Gorilla in a 0MG got me ?

 

[Levitas]

I think I getcha, mwa.

If that is the case, and he just mixes flavoring into the nic, could he not, in theory, mix 0mg tobacco flavors then?

I know that this is seemingly contradictory, because from what I have been getting from peoples is that without the nic, the flavor would be altered so much that the flavor would not be up to the standards that is Gorilla Juice or Boba's Bounty.

Could nicotine, even in small amounts, truly change the flavor that drastically?

 

[digunderground]

Could nicotine, even in small amounts, truly change the flavor that drastically?

IMHO.. yes. try mixing a base of just flavor, then make a 0nic, 10nic and 16nic base, then add the flavor base at the same percentage to each. this is what I did to determine if there was impact, and IMHO there was a noticeable difference between them. Ifyou do this make sure the flavor you mix is somewhat complex in flavor even if its 2 flavors, just make sure it has nuances.. like chocolate tobacco and blueberry. I mixed the flavor separate so I was sure that I was getting the EXACT flavor mix in each version.. not accidentially getting .5% more of something or another in one of the testers.

I wouldnt say "drastically" maybe more "noticeably" or "significantly".. IMHO.. lol


EDIT: the reason I picked chocolate tobacco and blueberry for an example is it covers the complex tobacco flavors, sweet earthy chocolate, and tart fruity blueberry. this is one of the exact mixes I tried, along with 2 others.