How are you preparing for Vaping Armageddon?

[Mowgli]

You could very well be correct Mowgli. I was working from my memory of nic degradation from madvapes' testing. Here is their data. I thought the 'Room Temp Office' results were the numbers for in the fridge. So, at room temperature, out of sunlight, you lose about 10% a year. They stopped adding data after four months and by then there was no loss from the cold stored samples.

So, is what you remember from Kurt's data that cold stored nic base loses 1% per year?

hmmm, I do remember that chart at MV's blog. I don't remember exactly but I remember it was minimal.
I don't even remember if it was Kurt but I read all he wrote regarding nic storage so it probably was him.
I'm trying to remember what I read last summer and I forget my own shoe size. My ead urts.

 

[FourWinds]

So I didn't do a lot of research amigos, actually all I've done is listen to you guys shooting the .... in this thread right.

But I gather that the nic concentrates have some water in them, also I've seen posts saying you gotta freeze 'em in glass containers (didn't pick up why yet). But then we have an issue with expansion and cracking don't we?

 

[Rossum]

No we don't. PG has a freezing point of around -74F.

Even if you added in 50% water, the freezing point of the resulting mixture would still be well below anything you'd find in a house-hold freezer. PG will get more viscous at freezer temps, but actual freezing won't occur.

As to why one would store high-test nic base in a freezer: Colder temperatures almost intrinsically slow down chemical reactions such as the oxidation of nicotine. Of course those really serious about long-term storage will displace the air in the head space of the glass bottle with an inert gas such as argon.

 

[Mowgli]

Here are some links discussing nicotine cold storage:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ttle-help-freezing-nic-juice.html#post2126610

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...freezing-100mg-nicotine-base.html#post8895379

More storage wisdom:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...g-possible-fda-restriction-2.html#post8436727

 

[FourWinds]

No we don't. PG has a freezing point of around -74F.

Even if you added in 50% water, the freezing point of the resulting mixture would still be well below anything you'd find in a house-hold freezer. PG will get more viscous at could freezer temps, but freezing is non-issue.

All good then, thanks.

 

[Mowgli]

So I didn't do a lot of research amigos, actually all I've done is listen to you guys shooting the .... in this thread right.

But I gather that the nic concentrates have some water in them, also I've seen posts saying you gotta freeze 'em in glass containers (didn't pick up why yet). But then we have an issue with expansion and cracking don't we?

Water is the only liquid that expands. PG or VG won't expand. Our nic shouldn't have any water in it.

Kurt advised us to leave a couple of ml for temp change when we bring it back to room temperature.
He bottled some in the winter, froze it, unbottled in hot summer and it spurted when he opened it.

 

[FourWinds]

I saw one uk based store web page that did say there was 10% water in the nic base. They were also offering a PG nic base, as well as a VG nic base.

I think I must nose about in those links, and generally, some more. I'm thinking of some q's: pg or vg for cooled storage (freezing seems to be an incorrect and misleading word to use here), and why did it spurt I wonder. I'll ponder and read some more.

 

[Mowgli]

The only other thread I could find that I think might contain that 1mg/per year would be

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/298547-nicotine-comparisons.html

There's a good look at how the nic available has changed over the past couple of years anyway.

 

[Mowgli]

I saw one uk based store web page that did say there was 10% water in the nic base. They were also offering a PG nic base, as well as a VG nic base.

I think I must nose about in those links and generally some more. I'm thinking of some q's: pg or vg for cooled storage (freezing seems to be an incorrect and misleading word to use here), and why did it spurt I wonder. I'll ponder and read some more.

Read the sticky threads in the DIY forum before you even order anything

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/



I wouldn't buy nic from them. It shouldn't have any water in it.

Here's a good explanation: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ttle-help-freezing-nic-juice.html#post2126610


He didn't leave any head room. He "corked" it when it was cool in the room.
He uncorked it when it was hot. It expanded from the heat difference.


Nic base shouldn't have water but some companies add distilled water to their high VG premixed juice to make them thinner and easier to wick. Maybe that's what you read about.

 

[Bob Chill]

Plastic bottles still allow air to permeate into the nic. That's why glass is the only way to go. The 2 enemies of nic base are air and light. I broke down my nic @ 70* in the house and when I bring it up to temp i do it in my basement which is cooler so I don't worry at all about expansion/overflow.

Some people go as far as filling the air space with an inert gas like argon when bottling. I don't see the need personally. There's air embedded in the base anyway. Not much but it's there.

The resident chemists here seem to think VG is a better base because of its viscosity being thicker. Slows down oxidation. I have both in the freezer but my oldest is only 6 months so i have no personal experience.

After I bottle I vacuum seal each bottle as an extra measure. My icebox is steady zero with no defrost so it's about as stable as you can get. Since there is evidence that 4+ years is no problem I can't imagine 8+ years being that much different. I don't really care if the nic base loses some strength anyway. Just as long as it remains vapable the long term battle is won.

 

[Mowgli]

Quoting a good news message:

Hey!

Man, I had not performed any tests, but your message inspired me to check my nic stash. So, I ran some tests just for you this afternoon and here is what I have:

All my batches are mixed at ~50mg/ml with PG

December 2011 nicotine: test today was nicotine content 49.01mg/ml. Slight (like super diluted urine, so not much) yellow tinge (unchanged since last check). Nic has been in freezer the entire time, but I do open it to put into smaller bottles for use. It has been opened maybe 4-5 times during storage. Odor unchanged.

June 2012 nicotine: test today was 49.86mg/ml. Faintest hint of yellow if I look really closely next to a white piece of paper. NIc has been unopened in the freezer for the duration. Odor unchanged.

December 2012 nicotine: test today was 49.98mg/ml. No yellow at all to maybe a super faint slight hint. Also has remained unopened since put into freezer. Odor unchanged.

May 2013 nicotine:test today was 49.86mg/ml. No yellow at all. Unopened since put in freezer. Odor unchanged.

August 2013 nicotine: test today was 49.93 mg/ml. This one does have a slight tan tone, but it did when I received it as well. My Freedom Smokes said they no longer "bleach" their nic liquid so the tan was normal. Odor unchanged.

All of these samples are from My Freedom Smokes. It has stored in the freezer super well, huh! I have 9 750mL bottles in the freezer, and contemplating purchasing another liter of nic. I *think* I have enough for nearly 10 years right now, but you can never be too prepared, right?!

If you ever want me to do a test, just holler. I would be happy to do one! Also send me the link to your blog. I would love to read it!

NICnurse

That's awesome!

Thanks for doing that. It's very encouraging.

I hope you don't mind if I quote this message in a few threads.
It's great news that will be good for DIYers' peace of mind.

Mowgli Vapes

 

[emus]

Plastic bottles still allow air to permeate into the nic. That's why glass is the only way to go. The 2 enemies of nic base are air and light. I broke down my nic @ 70* in the house and when I bring it up to temp i do it in my basement which is cooler so I don't worry at all about expansion/overflow.

Some people go as far as filling the air space with an inert gas like argon when bottling. I don't see the need personally. There's air embedded in the base anyway. Not much but it's there.

The resident chemists here seem to think VG is a better base because of its viscosity being thicker. Slows down oxidation. I have both in the freezer but my oldest is only 6 months so i have no personal experience.

After I bottle I vacuum seal each bottle as an extra measure. My icebox is steady zero with no defrost so it's about as stable as you can get. Since there is evidence that 4+ years is no problem I can't imagine 8+ years being that much different. I don't really care if the nic base loses some strength anyway. Just as long as it remains vapable the long term battle is won.

I'm considering VG base next order. I hope vendor mixes it well because it is difficult to mix thick VG. Does anyone know solubility limit of nic in VG?