I am so glad I never gave you any money.

[Mac]

So if the ECA was in fact misquoted. (which at this point I seriously doubt.) An awful lot of time has passed with no response. I think it is safe to say you guys are a bunch of self serving phony bologna screw-over artists with just about as much integrity as SE and the other unethical people you chose to lump me in with. (I can almost taste the irony)

Tsk tsk. Selfishness is not as rewarding as you think. Shame on you ECA.

 

[HighHeeledGoddess]

I disagree that e-cigs need regulation. It is my job as the consumer to investigate the product, its ingredients, etc. The market itself is regulating e-cigs, so the last thing we need is "help" from Big Brother. If companies are making false claims they should be prosecuted under the laws already on the books.

 

[markarich159]

If companies are making false claims they should be prosecuted under the laws already on the books.

There are no laws on "the books" concerning ecigs. How can you make an educated decision as a consumer if the suppliers are legally held to zero standards for to you compare and contrast against?

 

[Kimmy]

adults can't enjoy tasty flavors? what's up with that???? At what point do we stop blaming the vendors and start holding the parents responsible?

 

[68stang]

I love the flavors , LOVe them. I think we need to start a for consumer group who will look out for what us Adults want? hmmm )

 

[mrtuna]

There are no laws on "the books" concerning ecigs. How can you make an educated decision as a consumer if the suppliers are legally held to zero standards for to you compare and contrast against?

I wasted $250 at a kiosk on an E Cig product that sucked but I have the right to be a sucker. Buyer beware! I can also buy a soda at the movie theater for $4.00. It was my responsibility to research the product. They made no health claims and were not selling to children. No need to regulate the free market. If someone wants to open a shop with all the best e cigs and mods around I am sure they would get business. Right now it is the internet or kiosks for the most part. I am sure there is a law on the books in the US about selling nicotine to children and making false health claims. The nutrition products here all have disclaimers that they have not been evaluated by the FDA to treat or cure any medical condition. The more power you give the government the less freedoms and liberties you have! I don't need a government agency telling me what to eat or vape. I guess I won't be joining this organization.

 

[maureengill]

I think the "flavoring" (flavouring- for my British peeps )argument is flawed at best.

Yes kids like sweet things..but who doesn't? It's almost as if they are implying "If it doesn't like crap it's being marketed to kids."

Edible underwear are basicly made of fruit roll ups.. those must be targeted at children. Ouzo is sweet...incidious .......s are trying to get kids drunk!! Many beer makers add berries, honey, orange peel etc to their brews...obvious child endangerment..

Wish they had used this much energy to "stop the marketing" from marketing to kids when I started smoking M-boro reds at 12 yrs old.

E

Totally agreed....I was 11 when I started smoking....but it wasn't because of marketing...peer pressure sucks....not like i knew any better at 11. I could walk into any store and give them a note from my grandmother that was scribbled and walk out with a pack of smokes....or hit a machine that with enough quarters...8 to be exact...would throw me a pack of smokes....wow...back in those half a pack days....hmm. Now I'm at a pack a week dwindling from a two pack a day habit...thanks e-cigs...aww crap...peanut butter e-cigs...damn they must be marketing those for all those kids that like pb&j....

Maureen

 

[pcore]

I disagree that e-cigs need regulation. It is my job as the consumer to investigate the product, its ingredients, etc. The market itself is regulating e-cigs, so the last thing we need is "help" from Big Brother. If companies are making false claims they should be prosecuted under the laws already on the books.

That is a great Libertarian statement. However, the trend in the world today is exactly to protect people from themselves. We all know that, and you can see it everywhere you look. 90(95? 99?)% of people agree that they don't know what's in their own best interest, and they really appreciate having Big Brother looking over their shoulder.

One of the things I hear the most about when I'm showing my gear is that the bottles look like they were made in someone's garage or something. I think that liquid will be hard to get people to accept. But I think they would accept e-cigs.

One way to really legitimize them in the minds of people around the world would be to launch a multimillion dollar marketing campaign. If you see an infomercial, you know something is crap. But if you see a really well-executed commercial, I don't think it gives that impression at all.

 

[markarich159]

The nutrition products here all have disclaimers that they have not been evaluated by the FDA to treat or cure any medical condition.

That is actually BECAUSE of a law called the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994(DSHEA). It was designed(and lobbied for strongly by the dietary supplement industry) to not destroy the burgeoning health/natural product market in the early to mid 90's, by not requiring them to have to get FDA pre-marketing approval for their products and to self regulate their products and manufacturing standards . The thought was, although still technically regulated by FDA, the "natural products" were "safe" enough and these supplement companies in this new free market would be responsible enough to oversee themselves and do the right thing(the FDA basically took a "hands off" approach). It didn't work out so well. There were so many complaints of adverse reactions and illegitimate products and lawsuits that Congress was forced to pass an additional law(Dietary Supplement and Nonprescription Drug Consumer Protection Act of 2006) to buckle down on the industry and require mandatory adverse reaction reporting to the FDA, and, by 2010, all companies producing dietary supplements would have to manufacture products with "controls that result in a consistent product free of contamination, with accurate labeling."

So again, there are some minimal regulations that must be in place to ensure public safety. The average consumer(no matter how educated) cannot possible know exactly which companies to trust or not to trust in the absence of ANY regulation.

 

[AKs0n-]

Today, Salmon leads the Electronic Cigarette Association with very specific rules: they don't make health claims, don't sell to minors, and say they shouldn't be sold at kiosks in the mall. And just like real cigarettes, they should not sell flavors targeting children..

So...

Was this found to be an accurate statement or not

 

[Mac]

So...

Was this found to be an accurate statement or not

Well, since they have been "seeking clarification" for more then 2 months I am left with no choice to assume that yes it is accurate.

 

[AKs0n-]

ouch....

I thought it was awesome having that guy on OUR side...
Now I'm not so sure whose side he is on....

 

[AKs0n-]

BTW - I'm not sure how it is in other states but here in NJ they do sell cigarettes at kiosks inside our malls. When I used to work in a mall I appreciated the fact I could buy cigarettes fast and easy w/o leaving the mall and having to drive to find a store down the road.

Whatever IS legal in your state for cigarette sales SHOULD be legal for electronic cigarette sales ALSO.

And that whole talk bout flavored E-Juice sounds like the words of someone who obviously does NOT use electronic cigarettes & therefore that person does not and cannot represent me.

IMO the ECA needs a new face to speak on their behalf.
Someone who vapes as much as those people found on the ECF.
If that guy remains a part of the ECA his voice should be held on a leash.

 

[Moriah]

My case is different. I have a Swiss cheese immune system thanks to lupus and Sjogren's.

Sounds like I'm lucky to just have Sjogren's (was mis-dxed as fibromyalgia for nearly a decade before my dentist and my eye doctor asked me if my rheumatologist had considered it as a diagnosis) -- while I do catch most bugs that go around I've avoided hospitalization.

BTW: if you're having a toothache, the Clove flavor from MFS is very close to medicinal. I'm afraid of what it would be in double-flavor, as it stands vaping it leaves my mouth half-numb. Really high eugenol content in the vapor, and holding it in my mouth if I'm having a sore spot from my recently acquired lower partial denture helps immensely.

And they say clove flavor was marketed for kids... my posterior!

 

[Moriah]

I've seen several SE kiosks locally directly targeting minors. While I'm not against B&M locations for E-cigs. As it stands now to me it appears to be directly targeting minors at the locations I've witnessed. That's not to say I witnessed a sale, but from what I've seen it appears that the kiosks I've seen must be selling to under age kids. Because kids hang out at the mall and there is way to much opportunity.

The flavors for kids thing is ridiculous. People like different flavors. This is mostly from big tobaccos targeting of minors years ago. It's more a preventative step, and to me doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Just don't market/sell the flavors at these type of kiosk locations.

I'm not sure if you've had a minute to come back to the thread, but if you do read this.... could you answer the other poster's question about why you feel that they "must be" selling to underage kids? Did they request ID before you purchased, if you purchased from them? Did you witness a sale to a young adult where they did not card?

I understand the libertarian belief of not wanting regulation because people should be able to be adult and regulate themselves, but I would be perfectly fine with a law stating that ID must be presented before buying ecigs or juice. Back when I smoked analogs I bought my cigs from an online vendor. On my first order I had to fax them my driver's license, and they called and spoke to me, then the order was processed. While it would be a bit more hassle, it is not an unreasonable one IMHO to require ID before processing a transaction, even online.

Honestly, though, it would be easier for a kiosk vendor to follow any future law requiring ID presentation than it would be for an online supplier. And if kiosk vendors want to keep regulations from going on the books about ecigs in the first place, they ought to go ahead and *voluntarily* implement an ID-required policy. It would be both the intelligent and the ethical way to go -- because kids do hang out in malls and it's hard to tell sometimes a person's age, especially this day and age. While I don't see how simply being in a mall can be considered targeting children, a strict ID-required policy even for potential customers who look well overage would be a good step toward protecting against such accusations.

 

[mcl5000]

The only thing that bothers me anymore about mall kiosks is the fact that when people see me with my PV, they say, "Oh I saw one of those at the mall!". No, you didn't. You saw a badly performing, overpriced alternative. The mall kiosks introduce people to e-cigs, but not in the correct way IMO.

 

[Mac]

The only thing that bothers me anymore about mall kiosks is the fact that when people see me with my PV, they say, "Oh I saw one of those at the mall!". No, you didn't. You saw a badly performing, overpriced alternative. The mall kiosks introduce people to e-cigs, but not in the correct way IMO.

Have you been to every single mall kiosk in the world? What makes you assume that an internet 510 outperforms the 510's on my shelf? Not every kiosk is SE and not all of the kiosks out there stick to a rigid couple hundred bucks take it or leave it type of business model like SE. I do not appreciate being judged for the actions of others. If you have not visited our store then how is it fair for you to condemn it?

 

[AKs0n-]

Have you been to every single mall kiosk in the world? What makes you assume that an internet 510 outperforms the 510's on my shelf? Not every kiosk is SE and not all of the kiosks out there stick to a rigid couple hundred bucks take it or leave it type of business model like SE. I do not appreciate being judged for the actions of others. If you have not visited our store then how is it fair for you to condemn it?

LMAO

I was thinking EXACTLY like mcl5000 xD No offense man, its just the mentality I think the vast majority of us have. I'm glad your selling some quality goods but I would imagine most are not. Like I said its just the perception ppl have. Meh w/e tho ...anything that gets the masses aware of the e-cig aint so bad IMO, even if not of the highest quality.

 

[Mac]

LMAO

I was thinking EXACTLY like mcl5000 xD No offense man, its just the mentality I think the vast majority of us have. I'm glad your selling some quality goods but I would imagine most are not. Like I said its just the perception ppl have. Meh w/e tho ...anything that gets the masses aware of the e-cig aint so bad IMO, even if not of the highest quality.

Kiosks in generally have a bad rep because they tend not to be long term businesses. Most kiosks are either advertisements for actual brick and mortar businesses or are new businesses hoping to take advantage of fads or bright ideas. It appeals to both because if whatever they are trying to do doesn't work out they can fold relatively easily and inexpensively. When we first started selling e-cigs a year ago I kept hearing. "are you gonna be here next month?" I still hear it sometimes but most of the locals now know our reputation. So when I do hear it it's generally only from tourists. Personally, I dislike SE's business practices. But that reflects on them and them alone. Also I would be willing to bet there are some decent honest people selling their products as well. I bet they catch alot more hell then me. Nevertheless I will not allow myself to be lumped in with them or anyone else. Not by anyone. I have worked too hard and poured too much of myself into this to just sit idly by and let someone like Matt Salmon trash talk me. The ECA was started by a group of smart, organized and very talented individuals and frankly I expect better from them then this. I know why the perception of kiosks is what it is and I say that at least on a local level it can be overcome through hard work and integrity. I am living proof. You don't have to worship money to be a success.

 

[Elendil]

To mee, kiosks are the perfect venue for the ecig business. Who in their right mind would rent an entire store space when you would need very little space to display and sell your merchandise.

A kiosk just seems like smart business to me.