Is nic really addictive?

[leftyandsparky]

I had a close friend that was on Chantix.... He is no longer with us.... nasty medicine.

When I was on it I called my Dr. with "side effects " he in turned called my husband at work and officers to do a well check on me.
I agree Nasty stuff.

 

[stols001]

I'm sorry to hear about your friend, BunnyKiller. Chantix is horrifying, for some people, it really is. I'm so glad each and every doc refused to prescribe it to me, even at my worst, when I was practically begging for it before deciding to vape. That IS a Russian roulette kind of situation. It amazes me when I run into people ON it and they have no idea that "homicidal and suicidal action, completed," is part of the side effects, which amazes me... It still happens from time to time, but we have a high percentage of Medicaid users in our town/state, and often times not the best doctors available to them. It sucks.

I'm so sorry about your friend. Chantix is like the one thing I would pick as more deadly than cigarettes, in FAR less time.

Anna

 

[DC2]

So from what i gather nic is addictive, regardless of the research that says otherwise.

I tried to read to the end of the thread before responding, but couldn't do it.
The post above was where I felt it was time to jump in immediately.


There are lots of studies that show nicotine is not addictive in non-smokers.
I thought we had all settled on that conclusion years ago.

But then again, a lot of people get addicted to a lot of things.
Where other people don't.

Why should nicotine be different?

I drink coffee all the time, but I'm not even remotely addicted to it.
I also used a number of very addictive drugs when I was young, but never got addicted.

I have been vaping for around 18 months now with zero nicotine.
I don't have any cravings for nicotine whatsoever.

What I do crave, is the act of vaping.
Especially when I have a beer or two or four.

The bottom line is that everyone is different.

But in general, nicotine divorced from tobacco is VERY often not addictive to MOST people.
(and I bolded those words for a reason)

 

[Beamslider]

Yet Doctors push Chantrix all the time. My Doctor kept suggesting that every visit for a couple years. I always told him no way.....period

 

[AXIOM_1]

Yet Doctors push Chantrix all the time. My Doctor kept suggesting that every visit for a couple years. I always told him no way.....period

"chantrix" lol

 

[stols001]

Yes... that's how the witches brew it, while chanting "Chantrix, Chantrix," and add in all their ingredients, LOL. The drug manufacturers (wearing hazard suits) make it into a pill and take out the T, as "Chantrix" is a bit too scary sounding....

This is like the worst drug, and were it not for the fact that it is *for smokers* it would have been yanked off the market long ago.

Wouldn't it be interesting if the drug manufacturers themselves had to be test subjects for the required studies gaining approval... I'm guessing a LOT more side effects would be reported, very quickly. Hell, even SOME of the drug manufacturers.... The (now-ex) sample toting Friendly Drug Visitors. LOL. They used to come to my work and everyone would eat the food and listen to the presentation.... It was hard to get out of these presentations, really, even though they were RIGHT OVER LUNCH but I always seemed to find a way...

I Don't Need Yo spill if it's a psychiatric med (it is) then I have already researched it. No thank you, drug makers....

Then every last schizophrenic and bipolar client would be prescribed Fanapt, or whatever next new big thing. Docs get really excited (psych at least) and are often WAY interested in finding out What Will Happen, I mean, it's better, the drug makers said so, RIGHT????????

Gah.

Anna

 

[suprtrkr]

I've seen it suggested that nicotine on its own will not produce dependency. There have been several research efforts that support this.

Cigarettes contain a cocktail of alkaloids, and when they are all taken together, as in cigarettes, they produce a physical dependency. Once that dependency is set in place then nicotine alone can act like an addictive substance. Vaping provides the substance, and satisfies the addiction.

However some people need the other alkaloids as well as nicotine to satisfy the addiction. Hence the use of WTA extracts can help those people.

I've seen biological explanations for all that, in terms of specific brain receptors, though I can't put my hand on it right now. It's been posted and discussed here.

I don't know if all that is correct, but the evidence seemed quite convincing to me when I read it. I'm fairly confident that the answer is more complex than yes or no. I certainly don't believe the answer can be derived from anecdotal reports. Hopefully there will be more research as time goes by.

Well said. There are few things indeed as simple as yes or no. Except in math, of course.

 

[suprtrkr]

I had a close friend that was on Chantix.... He is no longer with us.... nasty medicine.

I didn't know. My sympathy, and apology if my comment opened your wound.

 

[stols001]

But, I need to add, I blame *all* this on lack of critical thinking skills. Back when I was young(er) I worked in a place where I sent the psychiatrists all the genetic background on a family-- like who responded to what med and what happened.... as far back as I can get. Some of my co-doctors looked at this like I was some kind of idiot savant, but then they started *asking* me to do it, LOL. I mean, smokers are far more likely to need nicotine than non-smokers, over the years my nicotine receptors have been BATHED in it, at ever increasing quantity.

This is interesting: Abstinent Smokers' Nicotinic Receptors Take More Than a Month to Normalize.

That was from 2009! Everyone's different, but I am going to need to stabilize my brain to that lower level that vapers seem to have? I imagine that will take SOME TIME. I don't think e-cigs are JUST about nicotine, but clearly they are to an extent. Also, probably the reason I can go MORE TIME without vaping than smoking, even this early in the game.... My nicotine levels are stabilizing. But I also have that hand to mouth action....And I knit, for hand to mouth action when I can't vape. Works well.. I'm going to need to remember to vape in August when I try to fix my book for my editor, I have NEVER written anything of substance without intense use of cigarettes, so in August I am practicing

I think it's good for my ADHD to have nicotine, anyway, and I'm otherwise healthy enough (kinda, thanks to vaping).

Anna
Anna

 

[Tonee N]

I would have to say no... I quit the gum and patches with no problem...

I always burnt my lips trying to light the gum.[emoji6]

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

 

[Rickb119]

The ONLY place to get WTA, Best of the Best.
Unflavored WTA Whole Tobacco Alkaloid 50/50 PG/VG 24 or 36 MG

Worth repeating!

 

[DeAnna2112]

yeah guys like you and me (long time smokers) know better......... Here is how I think about the subject of nicotine (right or wrong) ....> Back in the day (even to this very day) it was just a common household thought that if you were a smoker then you were addicted to NICOTINE............ That was what was reported in the media of the time and so people believed it hook line and sinker.......... It would not surprise me in the least if BT along with the FDA was blaming a relatively benign substance (nicotine) as being the addictive agent in tobacco so that it would be a cover for all of the really dangerous crap that they were adding to tobacco. They were having everybody focus on nicotine to get the attention off of all the other toxins they were adding......... Anyway, that is a very plausible supposition and one that I believe......... Plus, I still believe nicotine has slightly addictive properties because I can definitely feel it when I stop vaping for awhile.

best post yet and amen!!

 

[AXIOM_1]

I always burnt my lips trying to light the gum.[emoji6]

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

lol

 

[mcclintock]

You have caffeine dependency. Watch the video posted, please.

I've seen that video and thought it was very weak and unclear. Merriam-Websters definition of addiction includes "well-defined physiological symptoms upon withdrawal" and dependence doesn't. I've had very well-defined and severe physical symptoms ... and a willingness to do it again. Addiction doesn't necessarily result in "addict" behavior and yes there are multiple levels but whatever you call it, when it is in response to a substance you put in your body that is a different level than just liking something a lot, even to the point of an internal chemical response.

What he really got wrong, irrespective of his use of words, and relevant to this thread, is his reason smoking might be an "addiction" and vaping isn't, is he says smoking has more a ritual to it. REALLY??? ... smoking has a more chemically addictive effect. Both can have other complexities and yes rituals etc. do form and make quitting much harder than any simple chemical effect. But the big difference here is chemical.

 

[Robino1]

I think I would take the word of someone who has studied and taught about addictions and dependencies over a dictionary definition.

Real world application goes far further in my mind.

As to the ritual aspect, I do believe he is correct. Think about it for a second. When I was a smoker my rituals started first thing in the morning.

Wake up, start the coffee pot, brush my teeth, grab a cup and first smoke of the day. I would drink a pot in the morning and have 2 cigs to every cup. I drank 4 cups each morning.

After eating, have a smoke. Each time. Pick up the phone, have the cigs handy. Get in the car, light a cig.

My rituals have drastically changed since vaping. Sometimes I vape before my first cup, sometimes I have that first cup without a vape. I only drink 1-2 cups each day. Have to have at least one to keep that lack of caffeine headache away. I don't get any other caffeine during the day.

I can sit in a restaurant after eating and not excuse myself to go have that after a meal cig. Phone calls? Sometimes I sit and vape, other times I'm doing mindless tasks.

The car... I take my vape with me but half the time it sits there unused. Especially short runs to the store. One of these days I will leave it home.

There were definitely rituals that I followed each and every day while a smoker. Vaping...totally different. I dont have set in stone rituals. Hell, I even sleep in now. I used to get right out of bed as soon as my eyes opened. I didn't know what sleeping in was like. Hubby is up before me where I was always the first one awake as a smoker.

 

[CMD-Ky]

You are speaking my language. For me, too, the ritual was a major component of smoking and many were very similar to yours. Wow, have those rituals changed, again is a similar manner. I had to smile about the car and the restaurant, I can drive forty miles and never vape but would have consumed at least three cigarettes and after a meal - don't get between me and a door, but no more.

The ritual wasn't the whole thing but it was big and watching those habits change as my addiction minimized was interesting.

I think I would take the word of someone who has studied and taught about addictions and dependencies over a dictionary definition.

Real world application goes far further in my mind.

As to the ritual aspect, I do believe he is correct. Think about it for a second. When I was a smoker my rituals started first thing in the morning.

Wake up, start the coffee pot, brush my teeth, grab a cup and first smoke of the day. I would drink a pot in the morning and have 2 cigs to every cup. I drank 4 cups each morning.

After eating, have a smoke. Each time. Pick up the phone, have the cigs handy. Get in the car, light a cig.

My rituals have drastically changed since vaping. Sometimes I vape before my first cup, sometimes I have that first cup without a vape. I only drink 1-2 cups each day. Have to have at least one to keep that lack of caffeine headache away. I don't get any other caffeine during the day.

I can sit in a restaurant after eating and not excuse myself to go have that after a meal cig. Phone calls? Sometimes I sit and vape, other times I'm doing mindless tasks.

The car... I take my vape with me but half the time it sits there unused. Especially short runs to the store. One of these days I will leave it home.

There were definitely rituals that I followed each and every day while a smoker. Vaping...totally different. I dont have set in stone rituals. Hell, I even sleep in now. I used to get right out of bed as soon as my eyes opened. I didn't know what sleeping in was like. Hubby is up before me where I was always the first one awake as a smoker.

 

[mcclintock]

All the behaviors you describe are better explained by substance, chemistry. Yes vaping can help break the ritual somewhat by being different, but it works by being much the same and my rituals are very similar. If I hadn't been doing RYO it would have been a bigger change, charging batteries, choosing and adding juice etc. instead of just stopping by the gas station.

I think I would take the word of someone who has studied and taught about addictions and dependencies over a dictionary definition.

He sounded more like trying to justify his own behavior to me. Plus I think his reasoning fails even if you swap words around.

 

[Asbestos4004]

I think I would take the word of someone who has studied and taught about addictions and dependencies over a dictionary definition.

Real world application goes far further in my mind.

As to the ritual aspect, I do believe he is correct. Think about it for a second. When I was a smoker my rituals started first thing in the morning.

Wake up, start the coffee pot, brush my teeth, grab a cup and first smoke of the day. I would drink a pot in the morning and have 2 cigs to every cup. I drank 4 cups each morning.

After eating, have a smoke. Each time. Pick up the phone, have the cigs handy. Get in the car, light a cig.

My rituals have drastically changed since vaping. Sometimes I vape before my first cup, sometimes I have that first cup without a vape. I only drink 1-2 cups each day. Have to have at least one to keep that lack of caffeine headache away. I don't get any other caffeine during the day.

I can sit in a restaurant after eating and not excuse myself to go have that after a meal cig. Phone calls? Sometimes I sit and vape, other times I'm doing mindless tasks.

The car... I take my vape with me but half the time it sits there unused. Especially short runs to the store. One of these days I will leave it home.

There were definitely rituals that I followed each and every day while a smoker. Vaping...totally different. I dont have set in stone rituals. Hell, I even sleep in now. I used to get right out of bed as soon as my eyes opened. I didn't know what sleeping in was like. Hubby is up before me where I was always the first one awake as a smoker.

yep...that's pretty much how I remember it. It seems vaping has cut down my coffee consumption. Call it a positive side effect....

 

[Robino1]

yep...that's pretty much how I remember it. It seems vaping has cut down my coffee consumption. Call it a positive side effect....

I figured out why I consumed more coffee as a smoker. I allowed myself 2 cigs per cup. The more cups, the more cigs. . It wasn't the coffee that dictated how many cigs. It was the cigs dictating how much coffee.

 

[Eskie]

Biggest issue I had with Chantix was losing all desire for coffee. Kept smoking just fine. Then again I have a good friend who stopped with Chantix and hasn't restarted in 5 years.