Is The Antichist Here Yet?

[blondeambition3]

????......people are responsible for the evil in the world today.....and no, it isn't worse now than it ever was.....have you forgotten the OT?.....the Amelikites used to offer their first born children on an metal idol that was heated red hot, then they laid their living babies on it's arms....Romans used to feed people to lions and people paid to watch in the Coliseum.....people used to drown women and burn them at the stake because they were accused of being witches.....Satan didn't do any of those things.....people did.......

uh hum! No offense intended, but here are how many 'unborn babies' are aborted/murdered/sacrificed (whatever terminology you choose) annually here in the United States;


Gestational Age Percentage Yearly Total

Less than 9 weeks 57.9% 752,700
9-10 weeks 20.3% 263,900
11-12 weeks 10.2% 132,600
13-15 weeks 6.2% 80,600
16-20 weeks 4.3% 55,900
21+ weeks 1.5% 19,500 - anybody care to add these numbers up? suffice it to say the numbers are astronomical.. and this doesn't include the Children abused, abducted, molested, murdered, sold into sex slavery. Christian Missionaries are being persecuted and slaughtered worldwide as we speak... Women worldwide are tortured, beaten, circumcised by middle Eastern Husbands, stoned, raped, murdered, sold into sexual slavery/prostitution. I"m sorry CartHeadMod, but WHERE do you live that you don't SEE the EVIL as any worse than Biblical times? I'm afraid the rest of the World would beg to differ with you as well as GOD.. Abortion is murder and it's LEGAL.. you can't get any more evil than that! (I've SEEN an actual LIVE abortion... I'm not going to go into gory details but the Doctor has to 're assemble' all the parts to the unborn INFANT (not FETUS.. it's a person not a blob or thing!) when he's completed the abortion/act of murder. Look around... Satan lives my Friend.. but not for much longer! (tee hee hee)

BTW: Just for the record, I have love, mercy and compassion to all who have ever had an abortion and the Doctors who perform them. I can call it Murder and hate the Sin while still LOVING the sinners, as Christ would do. I hope this post didn't hurt anyone's feelings, it wasn't meant to hurt anyone.

 

[blondeambition3]

You ladies are on fire today!

We're on FIRE with the Love of Christ and the saving message of His perfect Gospel of Salvation!!!! Hallelujah!!!!

(You always make me do that... shout Hallelujah.. you're my Hallelujah Choir ain't ya L?)

 

[chimney55]

...
19 THEN Salvation, marriage of the lamb, Jesus returns /w the armies of Heaven, judges and wages war. Unleashes the wrath of God.
...

21 New Heaven and earth, and the new Jerusalem coming down out of Heaven from God, behold the tabernacle of God is among men. The bride, the wife of the Lamb, the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, having the glory of God.
...
Trust, prepare, rejoice, and long for His coming.

Are you saying that the New Jerusalem is the bride of Christ?

(And I DO trust, prepare, rejoice, and long for His coming.)

 

[blondeambition3]

(And I DO trust, prepare, rejoice, and long for His coming.)

I trust, prepare, rejoice and long for His coming with all of you also!!!! Hallelujah!!!

 

[KellyinAZ]

I thought that the "Bride of Christ" is His Church. So I guess I am somewhat confused by this thread. Is that not what the Bible refers to as The Bride of Christ?
I agree with Lisa, you sisters in Christ are on FIRE today with the Spirit...AMESOME!!!

Be well,
Kelly
In God We Trust

 

[chimney55]

I thought that the "Bride of Christ" is His Church. So I guess I am somewhat confused by this thread. Is that not what the Bible refers to as The Bride of Christ?
I agree with Lisa, you sisters in Christ are on FIRE today with the Spirit...AMESOME!!!

Be well,
Kelly
In God We Trust

That is my belief as well. However, eHuman was unclear in his post about who (or what) the bride of Christ is in the wedding of the lamb and the "wife" of Christ--it was just something that he "skimmed over" as an afterthought.

 

[KellyinAZ]

Chimney55,
I don't think I have ever heard or read the words "Wife of Christ" in fact I have always read and hear and understood it to be the "Bride of Christ". I know this is sort of nitpicking but a wife and a bride are very different things to me. What about you? Do they mean the same thing or are they different to you as well? I am just curious, not trying to stir up anything by the question.

Be well,
Kelly
In God We Trust

 

[chimney55]

Chimney55,
I don't think I have ever heard or read the words "Wife of Christ" in fact I have always read and hear and understood it to be the "Bride of Christ". I know this is sort of nitpicking but a wife and a bride are very different things to me. What about you? Do they mean the same thing or are they different to you as well? I am just curious, not trying to stir up anything by the question.

Be well,
Kelly
In God We Trust

No problem. I generally use the term bride of Christ (to designate the church right now). It's more like the "betrothed" of Christ---legally, we belong to Him, we just haven't had the wedding yet and we're living "apart" (physically not in the same place). Just like Mary continued to live with her parents after she was betrothed to Joseph until he was "ready" for her. In biblical times, this was usually at least 9 months-1 year to show that the "bride" was "pure and faithful" but Joseph didn't have that option. It had to be sooner than that because she was expecting. He COULD have divorced her and had her stoned, but he was visited by an angel who told him what was going on.

But some day, there will be a wedding and we will then become the "wife of Christ". The term "wife of Christ" was in eHuman's post.

 

[eHuman]

Are you saying that the New Jerusalem is the bride of Christ?

(And I DO trust, prepare, rejoice, and long for His coming.)

I tried more to stir others to think rather than give my opinion...

Rev 21:2
And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.

This was only one verse out of the chapter, I made no comment on what I thought it meant.

I listed pieces from each chapter to paint a picture of the order of things because of the question that came up on whether or not Satan is currently bound up. If you read chapters 18-21 you will see that Satan is bound for the same 1000 year period that we call "the millennial reign". Look carefully at the order of events and determine for yourselves if we are in that time period now.

Chapter 18 The world economic system is broken and fails.

Chapter 19 Then Salvation. Then Jesus returns and throws the beast and the false prophet into the Lake of Fire and THE REST are all killed by the Sword of the mouth of Jesus. (I noted that to point out that there are no humans left to live during the 1000 year reign of Christ.)

Chapter 20 Then Satan is bound for 1000 years (After the rapture of the Church and the death of all mankind on earth). The judgment of the saved to reign with Christ for 1000 years, the rest of the dead do not come to life until the 1000 years is complete. The 1000 years completed, Satan released to deceive the nations (Who? Everyone died already. The lost are resurrected, the lost are deceived and gather for war against Jesus.) Fire from Heaven consumes them all, Satan is thrown into the Lake of Fire, The lost are judged, anyone whose name was not written in the Lamb's Book of Life is thrown into the Lake of Fire.

Chapter 21 New Heaven, new earth, new Jerusalem on earth.

Many assume that there will be some humans that inexplainably survive the wrath of God to live through the millennial reign and have children and repopulate, and that they are the ones that gather for war against God. My reading of the scripture doesn't support that.

Some assume that Satan may be bound now (I.E. that we are in the middle of that 1000 year period now). My reading of the The text says all (outside of Christ) will be dead during that time, so this cannot be the case. Satan still to this day has authority to kill, steal and destroy.

The point I was aiming for, is read it for yourselves and you will "find" many things not quite the way we were told they are. There is much of Revelation that is very difficult to understand as allusions are used that veil the true meaning. But there is much that is straight forward and easy to understand.

 

[eHuman]

Rev 3:12

'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.

The word "pillar" is only used four times (Gal 2:9; 1 Tim 3:15; Rev 3:12; 10:1) in the New Testament and always figuratively or metaphorically. We are not literally "made" into part of the city. We will be AS (or like) pillars in the temple.

 

[chimney55]

I tried more to stir others to think rather than give my opinion...

Rev 21:2
And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.

This was only one verse out of the chapter, I made no comment on what I thought it meant.

Sorry, I have heard of people who believe that the New Jerusalem is actually the "bride". I too read it "as a bride" but not the bride.

Chapter 19 Then Salvation. Then Jesus returns and throws the beast and the false prophet into the Lake of Fire and THE REST are all killed by the Sword of the mouth of Jesus. (I noted that to point out that there are no humans left to live during the 1000 year reign of Christ.)

Chapter 20 Then Satan is bound for 1000 years (After the rapture of the Church and the death of all mankind on earth). The judgment of the saved to reign with Christ for 1000 years, the rest of the dead do not come to life until the 1000 years is complete. The 1000 years completed, Satan released to deceive the nations (Who? Everyone died already. The lost are resurrected, the lost are deceived and gather for war against Jesus.) Fire from Heaven consumes them all, Satan is thrown into the Lake of Fire, The lost are judged, anyone whose name was not written in the Lamb's Book of Life is thrown into the Lake of Fire.

Chapter 21 New Heaven, new earth, new Jerusalem on earth.

Many assume that there will be some humans that inexplainably survive the wrath of God to live through the millennial reign and have children and repopulate, and that they are the ones that gather for war against God. My reading of the scripture doesn't support that.

Some assume that Satan may be bound now (I.E. that we are in the middle of that 1000 year period now). My reading of the The text says all (outside of Christ) will be dead during that time, so this cannot be the case. Satan still to this day has authority to kill, steal and destroy.

The point I was aiming for, is read it for yourselves and you will "find" many things not quite the way we were told they are. There is much of Revelation that is very difficult to understand as allusions are used that veil the true meaning. But there is much that is straight forward and easy to understand.

19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

I read that as the remnant of the armies gathered by the beast and the anti-Christ. I don't see anywhere that it says that everyone will join their armies. People will still come to a saving knowledge/realization that Jesus is the Christ. Remember, it is God's will that all would be saved---but some people refuse to bow down to Jesus (for the time being.) There will be quite a few witness during this period. No where in the text does it say that the beast will kill ALL believers although he will be looking to try. Since it doesn't say in the text that ALL believers will be martyred or that everyone WILL join the armies of the beast and the false prophet, I don't assume that this is so.

 

[eHuman]

That puts you by default in the "pre-trib rapture" camp. To state that there will be people who survive God's wrath and live and have children in the millennium is conjecture, it is not in scripture. It is the only thing that "makes sense" and is what "must be" if we believe that pre-trib rapture is correct. That view (IMO) steers us (forces us) to draw conclusions that are not written in scripture.

(IMO, we're just bouncing our understandings) The pre-trib stance leaves holes. The "body of Christ", or "the Church", or "His bride"... How many marriages can we suppose He will have? Can any who miss the marriage ceremony still be part of the wedding?

Rev 19:9 Then he said to me, "Write, 'Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.'" And he said to me, "These are true words of God."

So are those who are not invited blessed also? It does not say that. It doesn't say that they are not blessed you may add, but read the context... (They would also miss out on the great feast of God if they "came later" from 19:17)

When the rapture happens, all of the children of God (including the 144,000 Jews and all of those who believed due to their testimony) go home. We are not destined for wrath, but it is through much tribulation that we are saved. If Jesus went through tribulation, and the servant is not greater than the master, how can we assume to escape tribulation?

Just food for thought.

 

[CartHeadMod]

That's beyond horrible, and the burning "witches" is still going on today in africa. Just terrible. But I believe satan and his demons are behind it influencing people to do things like this.

ah, "the Devil made me do it".....I don't buy it......people are responsible for their own actions.....

 

[CartHeadMod]

Well, that may very well be so, however, no one can convince me Satan is bound now.. there's waaaaaaaaaay too much evidence otherwise to convince me of this.. and if Satan is bound, what need is there for us? No Satan = No evil = No use for Christian witnessing. Let me try another angle.. (a non theological or doctrinal one... I'm really wearying of denominational doctrines & theologies.. they confuse & divide the Christian Body)... How do you explain the People who worship Satan indicating they 'experience' his presence just as we experience Christ's? If you'd like, I can even produce one for you and I can lead you to several web sites where former ones share their testimonies of being freed from service to Satan.

are you serious?.....you don't think people can sin if Satan isn't around doing it for them?......

 

[CartHeadMod]

I"m sorry CartHeadMod, but WHERE do you live that you don't SEE the EVIL as any worse than Biblical times? I'm afraid the rest of the World would beg to differ with you as well as GOD.

?????....I live in a world where people have always done evil things.....do you know how many died when Ghengis Khan invaded Eastern Europe?....when the Spanish invaded South America.....do you know what percentage of the population died in the Black Death in Europe during the Dark Ages?......for that matter think of those who died in the flood that Noah survived.........people are evil.....it has nothing to do with Satan being bound or unbound.....if you think your actions are excused because Satan hasn't been bound yet and you're telling your friends they will get a second chance during some millennium you're doing them no favors.....

 

[chimney55]

That puts you by default in the "pre-trib rapture" camp. To state that there will be people who survive God's wrath and live and have children in the millennium is conjecture, it is not in scripture. It is the only thing that "makes sense" and is what "must be" if we believe that pre-trib rapture is correct. That view (IMO) steers us (forces us) to draw conclusions that are not written in scripture.

(IMO, we're just bouncing our understandings) The pre-trib stance leaves holes. The "body of Christ", or "the Church", or "His bride"... How many marriages can we suppose He will have? Can any who miss the marriage ceremony still be part of the wedding?

Rev 19:9 Then he said to me, "Write, 'Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.'" And he said to me, "These are true words of God."

So are those who are not invited blessed also? It does not say that. It doesn't say that they are not blessed you may add, but read the context... (They would also miss out on the great feast of God if they "came later" from 19:17)

When the rapture happens, all of the children of God (including the 144,000 Jews and all of those who believed due to their testimony) go home. We are not destined for wrath, but it is through much tribulation that we are saved. If Jesus went through tribulation, and the servant is not greater than the master, how can we assume to escape tribulation?

Just food for thought.

I never denied that I was "pre-trib". So, you believe that the church is the "bride of Chirst" is the church? Why would Christ (or the Father) beat up the bride before the wedding?

It helps to understand the marriage customs at the time that this was written. First, the girl would be chosen, usually by the father of the groom, but not always. Then the groom would go to the girl's home to give his "proposal" to her father or her parents. He would also name the price that he would pay to have her become his bride. If she accepted, then they would drink a cup of wine together. They would not drink another one together until the actual ceremony. The groom would then go back to his father's house. At that time, in that culture, they generally did not build their own home, but added an addition onto his father's house. Usually there was a time of 9 months to a year maybe longer before he would come back for her. It was his father who would decide if the house he had prepared was adequate. Then, the groom would go to get his bride usually in the middle of the night. The bride never knew when exactly the groom would be back to get her, so she had to remain ready to leave even though she was expected to be working on her "trousseau"---things for her new house. Basically, the groom would take her back to the place he had prepared. The only people in the vicinity would be would be his friends and family. After the bride went through the ritual bath to be cleaned, the couple would seclude themselves for a week to consummate the marriage. Officially, they had been considered "married" since the betrothal. After they were officially husband and wife, they would return to HER house. That is where the wedding supper would take place with her friends present. (It's not like today in western culture where they have a wedding and dinner reception on the same day.) Friends will have been alerted to the fact that the bride had been taken by the groom and that would give them a week to make sure that they were ready for the wedding supper. In Matthew 25, we have the parable of the 10 "bridesmaids". This is a picture of those coming to Christ after the rapture after. Some made it in, others who thought that they would did not.

Those who made a commitment to Christ before the rapture are the "Church". Others who come later, and their will be quite a few, are not the bride, but "friends of the bride". The "engagement ring" given at the time of the betrothal to the Church was the indwelling of the Holy Spirit---a promise that the groom will come back for her. Those who go through the tribulation never accepted the "engagement ring" nor did they accept the "dowry" paid by the groom which was paid in His own blood. When the "engagement ring" goes, so will the bride. The Holy Spirit will obviously be present during the tribulation, but will not indwell believers in the same way that it did during the "church age".

In your scenario, there's a beat up bride without friends meeting the groom.

 

[chimney55]

ah, "the Devil made me do it".....I don't buy it......people are responsible for their own actions.....

are you serious?.....you don't think people can sin if Satan isn't around doing it for them?......

While I agree that people are responsible for their own actions AND that man is entirely possible of sinning without Satan being around, I also believe that there is a spiritual aspect to the world that we live in. Otherwise, why would be warned by Paul that our enemies are not of this world. And that we should learn to discern the spirits.

 

[blondeambition3]

I stated my position previously that I personally believe the Anti-Christ is alive & well somewhere on Planet Earth today... but I wanted to go a second & state The biggest reason "I" believe in the rapture is because the Lord 'allowed' me to 'experience' it in a prophetic dream, and two; scripture. Most of everything I 'know' about the Bible is personally revealed to me by God himself by the Holy Spirit. I just 'wish' I had an inkling as to 'when' it happens... but for me, in that instant, in that twinkling of an eye I sure had no fear and I sure felt HOLY and glorious as I was being transformed into 'what' we will be.. which is like 'Him'.

Tip of the Day: When you point at someone else, you always have two fingers pointing back at you.

Back ON Topic... to those of you who think we could make better use of 'our' time than discussing end times and the rapture.. please, this is for your consideration:


"Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching". - Hebrews 10:25 (KJV)

Y'know if GOD said it, then that 'settles' it for me!!!!!

 

[blondeambition3]

?????....I live in a world where people have always done evil things.....do you know how many died when Ghengis Khan invaded Eastern Europe?....when the Spanish invaded South America.....do you know what percentage of the population died in the Black Death in Europe during the Dark Ages?......for that matter think of those who died in the flood that Noah survived.........people are evil.....it has nothing to do with Satan being bound or unbound.....if you think your actions are excused because Satan hasn't been bound yet and you're telling your friends they will get a second chance during some millennium you're doing them no favors.....

You want to believe Man is inherently evil with no help from the Devil and my position is I don't really care either way, but unfortunately it's important to God what we believe.. so, based on scripture.. especially the book of Revelation which deals with the 'latter days' .. which is now forward until Christ's return.. I believe the Devil is still active because of scripture. the Book of Revelation talks about events that have 'yet' to happen, the Devil & Hell reserved for him are mentioned in it.. What did 'this' statement have to do with what I posted earlier about evil? .if you think your actions are excused because Satan hasn't been bound yet and you're telling your friends they will get a second chance during some millennium you're doing them no favors Did I claim to preach another Gospel other than the one the Apostles preached? I think not, I preach Christ Crucified and salvation comes by no other. I agree that no one's actions will be 'excused' except those who chose to call upon CHRIST and were saved and cleansed by the POWER of His BLOOD that was shed on that cross for the Sins of the World! That's WHAT I tell people and Satan gets no credit whatsoever. I share Christ when I witness, not the Devil (whose under my feet anyway!)
I still beg to differ, Adam & Eve would have remained SINLESS in the Garden of EDEN if they hadn't succumbed to the wiles of the Serpent, the Devil (Lucifer). The Devil's toast anyways.. (lol)

 

[LisaLisa]

While I agree that people are responsible for their own actions AND that man is entirely possible of sinning without Satan being around, I also believe that there is a spiritual aspect to the world that we live in. Otherwise, why would be warned by Paul that our enemies are not of this world. And that we should learn to discern the spirits.

Yes! I agree with that 100%