Is The Antichist Here Yet?

[LisaLisa]

While I agree with your statement...I'd be getting my argument/premise together 'cause the injuns are circling and will soon have you surrounded.

I"m coming up from behind, sneak attack!!!!!

Matthew 24:30-36

"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

 

[Southern Gent]

Carnak predicts...(holds envelope to head)........................Custer's last stand

 

[eHuman]

Have babies and children suffered hardships and tribulation on earth. Yes

Did they all go to Hell because they didn't accept Christ? Hmmm (Does that line up who who God has revealed Himself to be to us?) No.

1 Cor 7:13-14
13 And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away.
14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy.

I could explain this scripture, but you meditate on it first.

 

[chimney55]

actually, there are no verses in the Bible that SPECIFICALLY say anyone is being "raptured"......

Yes, technically, you're right. The word rapture does not appear in the King James Bible...or any other English translation made. The word came from Latin. The New Testament was translated from from Greek to Latin. The Greek word "harpazo" was translated to the word "raptos" (or some variety thereof) from which we get the English word "rapture". The Greek word "harpazo" only appears once in the text of the New Testament in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. There it is translated as "caught up" as in..."Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." So, although the word "rapture" does not appear in the Bible, the concept of the rapture does in this and in other verses that make it clear that it is not the same thing as the events of the second coming.

 

[chimney55]

"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Actually, Lisa, sorry to disagree, but this isn't a "rapture" verse. Matthew chapters 24-25 speak of the tribulation and the second coming. This particular verse tells of the second coming. The "elect" that He is gathering from the four winds are those who lived through the tribulation and came to recognize Jesus as their messiah. In other "rapture verses" there's no indication at all that nations of the world will mourn the departure of the church or that they will see when the Lord comes to get us.

 

[eHuman]

The Greek word "harpazo" only appears once in the text of the New Testament in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. There it is translated as "caught up"

Not quite right, the Greek word "harpazo" is used in the following verses and meanings:

Matthew 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

Matthew 12:29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Matthew 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

John 6:15 When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.

John 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Acts 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

Acts 23:10 And when there arose a great dissension, the chief captain, fearing lest Paul should have been pulled in pieces of them, commanded the soldiers to go down, and to take him by force from among them, and to bring him into the castle.

2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; ) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

2 Corinthians 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Jude 23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

 

[LisaLisa]

Actually, Lisa, sorry to disagree, but this isn't a "rapture" verse. Matthew chapters 24-25 speak of the tribulation and the second coming. This particular verse tells of the second coming. The "elect" that He is gathering from the four winds are those who lived through the tribulation and came to recognize Jesus as their messiah. In other "rapture verses" there's no indication at all that nations of the world will mourn the departure of the church or that they will see when the Lord comes to get us.

Ok, how about this one?


1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[chimney55]

Not quite right, the Greek word "harpazo" is used in the following verses and meanings:

Matthew 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.



Matthew 12:29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Matthew 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

John 6:15 When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.

John 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Acts 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

Acts 23:10 And when there arose a great dissension, the chief captain, fearing lest Paul should have been pulled in pieces of them, commanded the soldiers to go down, and to take him by force from among them, and to bring him into the castle.

2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; ) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

2 Corinthians 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Jude 23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Thanks, eHuman! I stand corrected.

 

[chimney55]

Ok, how about this one?


1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

DEFINITELY a rapture quote! In fact, I quoted it above!

 

[Saintscruiser]

It all sounds like harvesting mode to me! To take; to pluck; to snatch away; to take forcefully; of course it'll be forcefully.......BAM!!!!!!!!!!!! All gone.

 

[LisaLisa]

It all sounds like harvesting mode to me! To take; to pluck; to snatch away; to take forcefully; of course it'll be forcefully.......BAM!!!!!!!!!!!! All gone.

BAM! BAM! BAM!!!!!!!!!!!!! You crack me up SC!

 

[blondeambition3]

I think the Anti-Christ is definitely in the World...
I also think the 'spirits' of the anti-Christ are all over the place in this forum....

I don't know how 'effective' we can be in an environment like this.. we're under constant attack & assault...

maybe it's just 'me'....

 

[CartHeadMod]

Yes, technically, you're right. The word rapture does not appear in the King James Bible...or any other English translation made. The word came from Latin. The New Testament was translated from from Greek to Latin. The Greek word "harpazo" was translated to the word "raptos" (or some variety thereof) from which we get the English word "rapture". The Greek word "harpazo" only appears once in the text of the New Testament in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. There it is translated as "caught up" as in..."Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." So, although the word "rapture" does not appear in the Bible, the concept of the rapture does in this and in other verses that make it clear that it is not the same thing as the events of the second coming.

there are many, the majority actually, who believe that Christ will simply return and it will be judgment day......we are caught up, meet him, be with him.....the part I don't get is the idea that he turns around and leaves again.....where's that come from?......

 

[CartHeadMod]

like mentally handicapped and mentally ill people.

why would there still be mentally handicapped or mentally ill people after Christ returns......don't you think he would heal them all?......

 

[chimney55]

there are many, the majority actually, who believe that Christ will simply return and it will be judgment day......we are caught up, meet him, be with him.....the part I don't get is the idea that he turns around and leaves again.....where's that come from?......

I'm not sure that I understand your question. I know that at the moment, there are more post-tribbers than pre-tribbers. Which "up and down" are you talking about?

 

[eHuman]

There are many scriptures that are used to support both pre and post trib rapture views. I think the main thing that separates them comes down to whether or not you separate the Jews from the Gentiles and if you see a difference between tribulation and wrath.

If you do (separate the two), "this part is for them" and, "that part is for us" there is a pre trib rapture for us, "they" go home when Jesus comes at the final trump, and it all seems to work.
If you don't, AND you see a difference between tribulation and wrath, "then there is one post trib rapture" and it all seems to work.

Considerations:
Do we have a different inheritance in Christ than the Jews? If so what?

What do we do with (how do we handle) these scriptures?

Eph 2:12-14 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall,

1 Cor 12:13-14 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
14 For the body is not one member, but many.

Gal 3:28-29 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.

Col 3:11 a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all.

Eph 2:12-19
12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,
16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.
17 AND HE CAME AND PREACHED PEACE TO YOU WHO WERE FAR AWAY, AND PEACE TO THOSE WHO WERE NEAR;
18 for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father.
19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household,


Some might say, "But the the Jew have the promise of the land!" If we are in Christ in the Father, in the New City of Jerusalem when it comes down from Heaven in Israel, then don't we also get the land? We're there one and the same brothers and sisters.

I guess we need to ferret out "we are not destined for wrath" and see if the tribulation counts as God's wrath to go much further.

 

[chimney55]

There are many scriptures that are used to support both pre and post trib rapture views. I think the main thing that separates them comes down to whether or not you separate the Jews from the Gentiles and if you see a difference between tribulation and wrath.

If you do (separate the two), "this part is for them" and, "that part is for us" there is a pre trib rapture for us, "they" go home when Jesus comes at the final trump, and it all seems to work.
If you don't, AND you see a difference between tribulation and wrath, "then there is one post trib rapture" and it all seems to work.

The church isn't Israel. God made numerous promises (other than the land) that haven't been fulfilled. He WILL keep his promises!

 

[CartHeadMod]

I'm not sure that I understand your question. I know that at the moment, there are more post-tribbers than pre-tribbers. Which "up and down" are you talking about?

actually, my denomination is considered "a-millenialist"......there are more of us than pre- and post- combined....we don't think there are two "ups"......the vast majority of Christians simply believe that Christ is coming back.........

 

[LisaLisa]

why would there still be mentally handicapped or mentally ill people after Christ returns......don't you think he would heal them all?......

It depends on your time line of events. If the rapture happens, and I believe it will, we will be changed in an instant to a heavenly body, which won't include our physical imperfections.

God will heal them all, I believe, when they are changed to a spiritual body during the rapture, and those born during the millennial reign will most likely be free from deformities.

 

[CartHeadMod]

It depends on your time line of events. If the rapture happens, and I believe it will, we will be changed in an instant to a heavenly body, which won't include our physical imperfections.

God will heal them all, I believe, when they are changed to a spiritual body during the rapture, and those born during the millennial reign will most likely be free from deformities.

if there is some millennial reign why would God permit new births during that era....wouldn't that contradict the purpose of a millennium?.....wouldn't we need a mini-millennium to deal with the people born during the millennium?.....ad infinitum?.....

as for MY timeline of events.....Christ returns, there's a Judgment Day, there's the rest of eternity.....not very complicated.....